Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Posting in languages other than English

Smoothly

12:57 / 10.05.04

Sebastian, in the Gathering, raises an interesting question:
To what extent does/should the board allow/encourage users to post in languages other than English?
As Bedhead points out in the thread, much utility as well as larks can be derived from 'Babelfish', but I suppose there are possible moderation issues if mods can't read the language in which whole threads are written.

I would have thought that in serious cases of harassment and so on, the offended parties will be keen to flag objectional behaviour up to moderators; but for the purposes of other mod duties (spotting spam or correcting typoes in abstracts, frinstance), it might present an impediment. Mightn't it?
I can't envisage any real problems arising from a Barbemeet in Buenos Aires being arranged in Spanish, but people might have a different view or broader concerns.
Anyone?

Grey Area

14:25 / 10.05.04

Well, if you're in doubt why not use the service you mentioned? Babelfish would quickly show you if the post is objectionable.

As to correcting spelling and the like, I'd say that in the case of foreign languages the mods could be excused...English is the lingua franca of the Board. Anyone who's posting in another language only has themselves to blame if they're misunderstood.

Tom Coates

18:10 / 10.05.04

In terms of threads being started for a community of non-english speakers on the board, I'm afraid I'd probably have to caution against it for the basic reason that at the moment we're simply not qualified to check that they're not libellous comments. Similarly with individual posts, the issue is whether or not we can legitimately be expected to know what's being said and for me as a result to be able to take legal responsibility for it. Can I ask people to encourage everyone to post in English. If there is sizeable interest in a parallel board for non-English speakers, then I might be able to set up something to deal with that - assuming that we had enough people who were prepared to take responsibility for managing it.

Olulabelle

20:06 / 10.05.04

Personally I think arranging a barbemeet in spanish when it's being held in Argentina is fair enough - I mean I can read french fairly well, enough to get the basic jist of a french board, but I wouldn't want to write it. I'd get all my tenses and my grammar wrong and feel stupid.

For the time being, if there's a thread or a topic which people wish to discuss in another language like arranging meetings, maybe a temporary moderator could be appointed for that forum who does speak the particular language in question in order to to oversee the thread whilst it's alive.

Lurid Archive

07:38 / 11.05.04

Personally, I think that having other languages on Barbelith - as opposed to a sister board - would be a great thing. I imagine having another forum where a range of specified languages is spoken and the moderators are people who are able to do their job in these other languages.

We shouldn't underestimate the benefit of this, as it would encourage people with different backgrounds to join - and I can't imagine that a foreign language forum would remain totally separated from the rest of the board - and it would give people the oppurtunity to practice their rusty Spanish, or whatever. It would be inclusive, edicational and broaden the set of experiences that people bring to Barbelith.

Having said that, I am not sure how much demand there is for using other languages beyond a few comments, so this may all be rather unrealistic on my part.

Ariadne

12:28 / 11.05.04

I'm with Lurid on this - I think it would be great to broaden the board and break the tyranny of English on the Web! I'm happy to be a French-language mod. Unfortunately that'd the only second language I'm fluent in but I'm sure we have some Spanish and German speakers, at least? Ooh, maybe we could have a Gaelic section, so I can learn?

Our Lady Has Left the Building

13:28 / 11.05.04

The obvious solution is that we use a foreign language for when people on the board want to have threads about The International Jewish Conspiracy (tm). That way no-one knows whats going on and everyone's happy.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

13:34 / 11.05.04

I'd love to see a dedicated multilingual forum on the board, and would be happy to volunteer my creaky Spanish.

(Flowers: Yeah, but we could make it a condition that all IJC threads all have to be conducted in Hebrew.)

raelianautopsy

19:02 / 11.05.04

Kore wa nan desu ka?

Nihongo o hanashimasenka?

charrellz

18:10 / 12.05.04

I have a somewhat impractical idea that might be able to be reformed to be useful. The buddy system. Get some thread or something somewhere where bilingual members can sign up to translate for those who don't know english. Maybe they just put it in the thread with a request of where to put it when it's translated, or through PM or...or...all my ideas are pretty slow and impractical, but that's what mods are for, right?

Lurid Archive

22:21 / 12.05.04

At the risk of tempering my idealism with practicality, can I ask if anyone out there is interested in posting in a language other than English?

Errrmmm. I can see a big flaw in that sentence, right off the bat.

Nyet.

I just did. See?

Nein.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

08:43 / 13.05.04

Instead, can I ask if anyone would think it was a massively unfair restriction of their rights if they were asked not to post in any other language than English? After all, raelianautopsy can speak other languages but is capable of writing in English so I don't see why we'd necessarily have to arrange things so he can write in a foreign language. There is also the slight danger that he might post something interesting to me which I'd never realise because of my unashamed monolingual status.

Lurid Archive

15:36 / 13.05.04

I'm not sure that seeing it as a restriction in rights is terribly helpful. I was thinking of it more as a way for people to practice languages, to widen the potential membership and to have a slightly different Barbelith experience.

None of which is essential, but I don't think that is really the point. Still, the interest seems to be low to non-existent, so this is all academic anyway.

raelianautopsy

17:29 / 13.05.04

Actually I've only taken Japanese classes for a year and those were just simple phrases.

Translation: What is this? I can't speak in Japanese?

Not that interesting.

I just wrote them to write them.

Sebastian

02:09 / 14.05.04

Hi Sugars, Thanks for, err, well, considering this...

I did think in advance of offering myself as a mod for the thread I opened inviting the writing in Spanish, simply because I am basically using Tom's space here to write in a language I am fairly certain is not his native one. Its like being a guest in a house who takes control of a room and starts a speech in his braahmanni native dialect, if that happens to exist. But I don't really know what it takes to be a moderator.

Some of you may know me, others not, others know I have not been around for a while, but it is clear I am back, at least for that thread.

So what I can propose is that I will report to a mod if anything gratuitously offensive comes up. But let me know if there are actual formal guideliness to detect what has to be reported to a moderator.

In exchange I just ask for permission to eat Dadaist's brain-yolk.

Oh... Did I actually said that? I must have been joking.

pointless and uncalled for

12:51 / 14.05.04

Whilst there are a myriad of benefits of having this board multi-lingual, the cost could prove too great were someone to post a libellous comment for which Tom would be liable under law.

While it could be construed that we have a responsibility to Tom to monitor our own actions, it is far safer to entertain a responsibility to allow Tom, and the moderators, to monitor actions. That way he can bear the burden of responsibility for content safe in the knowledge that he has some degree of control over it without being unreasonable.

Lurid Archive

14:03 / 14.05.04

If I there were sufficient interest, I don't think the potential for abuse need be all that great. As long as we restrict ourselves to languages that some trusted people can moderate - it looks like we could reasonably cover French, Spanish, German and Italian - then I don't forsee too many problems, apart from making it harder for Tom to police things directly. That is a problem, of course, but not an insurmountable one, surely?

pointless and uncalled for

14:11 / 14.05.04

Fair point but do we have the coverage that we really need to make this a viable option? It's a bit hard for me to guage.

Basically I would vie for the more surmountable the better.

Sister siting strikes me as a better option as it's easy to tie in and keeps things easily manageable on a pan forum level. If proposed sister sites were kept bilingual then those with an interest would be able get involved and avoid exclusionary culture.

Lord Morgue

10:52 / 17.05.04

I govoreet we nachinat a vesch where all the lewdies govoreet in nadsat. Right right, droogs? Or Your Humble Narrator will fetch you such a tolchok on the gulliver, viddy if I don't. Real dobby? Horrorshow. Dooby dooby doo.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

20:13 / 21.01.05

I realise that the outcome of this discussion was pretty clear, to whit: No, you shouldn't use languages other than English on the board.

However, myself and some of the other posters would really, really like to have a thread here in Castillian (Spanish) so we can practice.

This is a bit selfish, I know, since most posters don't speak/write Castillian. And I've got no real arguments except "But I really really really WANT one!"

However, if we kept all this to just one thread, perhaps with a topic abstract that re-stated the board's general "English only" policy, would that be okay? Or should we all bugger off to Livejournal and start a Spanglish comm?

alas

22:29 / 21.01.05

I'm one of those with a deep desire to hablar, or at least write, to other 'lithers en espanol. I realize that England's libel laws are nothing to sneeze at (atch-hoo!), but I'm with L'Anima that it doesn't sound insurmountable--at least to me. I may be being naive--I realize I'm not a moderator, and, alas, I am not Tom--what do I know!

But what if there were 1) some minimum number of people who want to speak in that language, who could do so on say just one thread, and 2) there were enough long-term members and at least one with moderator status who would agree to moderate just that one thread, and 3) I don't know, anything else that would make tom comfy? up to and including a nice cup of tea and a fluffy pillow?

Could we try just a spanish thread in the conversation--we already have an illegal one going? oh please oh please oh please. (I know I sound like a child in the back seat of a car whining to my parents. sorry. )

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

22:34 / 21.01.05

I really don't see the problem... although I did have a strange moment trying to make a decision on a mod request Qalyn made the other day when the reason was in Spanish...
Alternatively, give ALL the convo mods Spanish lessons. That'd be COOL.

sleazenation

23:01 / 21.01.05

On the libel front - I love the notion that 'abuse' is not considered libelous - you can call someone a bastard as long as you are not questioning their parentage.

Sean the frumious Bandersnatch

00:02 / 22.01.05

Raelian Autopsy- Kimi no nihongo no chousa ni yoi un o nozomu. Ima, ore wa zutto gonenkan benkyoushiteiru. Nihongo wa muzukashii, daga ii shirubeki koto desu ne.

grant

03:03 / 23.01.05

I think I'd have an easier time translating (most) Spanish than deciding if an English post was actually libelous, or just obnoxious.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

10:23 / 23.01.05

But as a monolingual, if I received a moderation request for a post in another language wouldn't I have to turn it down, as I wouldn't be able to judge whether I was making a situation better or worse?

Spatula Clarke

10:37 / 23.01.05

It's not going to be a problem in one Conversation thread, though, given that it's obviously going to have a Spanish-speaking moderator involved.

Add Your Reply