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Norwich Union insisting we have HIV test...

09:23 / 10.05.04

So... our mortgage has been approved (more or less) but Norwich Union, following a 'supplementary lifestyle questionnaire', is insisting we both undergo HIV testing.

I'm concerned about this for a couple of reasons: firstly, I'm worried that the mere fact of having had an HIV test - even a negative one - might cast a long shadow over any future insurance applications; secondly, I'm unhappy at the thought that we may be being discriminated against, as gay men. I've heard varying accounts of the legality of such invasive tests (under that part of the European Human Rights Act which relates to personal privacy) - and we seem to have been asked to have the test regardless of low number of sexual partners, safe sex, etc., etc.

Anyone have knowledge or personal experience of this? Other than consulting our mortgage broker and/or solicitor, it's difficult to know how to proceed.

10:11 / 10.05.04

Can't offer much in the way of advice, but I do recall that I had to take an HIV test when I took out a life-insurance policy a couple of years back. This was called for without a supplementary lifestyle questionnaire. I think it's safe to say most insurance companies are doing this kind of thing, regardless of gender and/or sexual orientation.

Whale... Whale... Fish!

10:12 / 10.05.04

The only thing I can think of is when a friend was refused an HIV test by his GP, for the resons that even if the test came back negative it would make it harder for him to get a mortgage etc in later life.

10:20 / 10.05.04

Well, one reason I'm not immediately crying homophobia is that Norwich Union is, I gather, a relatively homo-friendly insurer ie. they don't load premiums just because someone's gay - which suggests to me that we're perhaps being asked to take an HIV test because our mortgage is pretty big, and we need a correspondingly high level of life insurance.

The 'lifestyle questionnaire' didn't seem that intrusive: we answered no to everything except 'are you homosexual' and 'have you had sex with a homosexual man in the last X years'.

Still trying to find out to what extent having an HIV test on the insurer's insistence might jeopardise future applications...

10:29 / 10.05.04

I think it's safe to say most insurance companies are doing this kind of thing, regardless of gender and/or sexual orientation.

Doesn't seem to be the case in all circumstances. I'm getting a sense that perhaps it's required from all applicants if the 'death benefits' sum is over a certain amount - but I can't find anything solid on what the threshold might be...

07:33 / 11.05.04

I was asked to take an HIV when making an application for life insurance a few years back. This too, was following a lifestyle questionnaire in which I answered yes to the same sort of questions. Interestingly, my partner at the time was advised to take out a policy with a different company (as he was a smoker and I wasn't, we got better deals at separate companies) and wasn't required to take a test.
Neither of us had to take a test as part of our mortgage application.
Now, I do know that HIV testing shouldn't be as much of a problem in conjunction with mortgage applications as it has been in the past. As in the case of my ex-partner, there are quite a few insurance companies who don't even ask these questions anymore.
Unfortunately I can only offer a personal opinion, in that I don't think its going to make a lot of difference to you in the long run if you take this test now. In my experience testing is being promoted more than ever before by health services and the days of 'don't test unless you really want to know' are long gone. It's generally seen as a pro-actively healthy thing to do, whether you are gay or not.
If you want expert advice, THT's legal dept might be able to help you with the details. Or maybe Stonewall?
Personally I think that it is quite insulting to be singled out as a group in this way, but can also understand why they do it. It is far easier after all to lump people together in a group like this, than to interview each person in detail.
Good luck Ganesh.

07:39 / 11.05.04

Oh yeah, I should add, that obviously getting a positive result would seriously affect your application.
Its a really good idea to consider getting a confidential test first.
Here are some excellent services in London
You really wouldn't want to get a nasty surprise via the building society.

pointless and uncalled for

08:02 / 11.05.04

As a rule, even with the changes in DPA and FOI that are happening right now, medical information is strictly confidential between the patient (defined very strictly as the specific person to whom the medical information is about) and the authorised personnel at the company, group, organisation or other identifiable body that retains that information.

Such information, including the fact that you have had a HIV test let alone the results, cannot be released without your express understanding of the reasons for release/intended usage and signed authority to do so. The only exeception to this is if you are officially investigated by a legal body where reasonable suspicion is raised to a judge that you may have commited a crime and the judge deems it nessecary to issue a warrant based on relevance to the case. Even then a lot of rule of propriety still affect any such medical information.

Were Norwich Union to release that information beyond the bounds for which it was originally required (and this can be specific to the mortgage application, depending on what you agree) then you probably could sue them for enough to buy a house, if not two, each.

pointless and uncalled for

08:03 / 11.05.04

That's just a rough overview BTW - Stonewall and CAB should be able to clarify although you should seek advice though someone with specialisation in personal information law as it is as much a quagmire as any other area.

21:17 / 22.06.04

As an aside, we've both been told we're HIV negative. Which was expected, but nice to see on paper nonetheless.

22:52 / 22.06.04

Good show.
I was very pissed off when I applied for my pension a few years ago and one of the questions was effectively "have you ever talked to any poofs?". I shouted at the advisor and then said no. I am ashamed.
Bastards.