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Subjective impressions in Magick

09:52 / 04.05.04

What do people think of the value of subjective impressions in magick? What I suppose I mean by this is suggestive coincidences, feelings, intuitions etc that arise of your work. I don’t mean in the sense of hard proof - incontrovertible coincidences, the stuff that would convince James Randi - I mean just the “light” suggestive stuff that can go towards building a magickal world. How important to you are subjective impressions?

I got thinking about this because of a thread Olulabelle started (and deleted) a few weeks ago on “proof”. I recall the first magickal group I was in had a couple in it who managed to materialise stuff just through visualisation – they were always finding exactly what they wanted or needed. At the time, having read two or three books and Knowing Everything* , I couldn’t square what happened to them with what I thought I knew about magick – I was like “b-but where’s the ritual? A-and the candles? And it clearly states in Pete Caroll’s books that y-you need gnosis…Ohhh god”. I mention that as it was really my failure of imagination, and clinging to a rule book that prevented me from seeing what was going on. I think this kind of mindset prejudiced me against subjective impressions - I needed the big earth-shattering proofs, rather than the “light touch” of suggestion. Being right, as opposed to being inspired. One person’s subjectivity is another’s hallucination after all. It’s only in recent years I’ve become more open to this sort of thing, and I’ve found it of great value. If anything, now I’d say magick seems to start with imagination and creativity, letting your mad thoughts out for a bit. Wondered if anyone else had any similar experiences? Or any other comments on this process?

Capitalised as it’s a common, recognisable stage.

16:12 / 04.05.04

Hi,

Yes, I am constantly experiencing strange little occurrences. Every single day, things happen, that if they didn't happen every day, I would say, oh well, it's a coincidence. Often, it's just funny stuff--for instance, I was driving to work and thinking about the Wright Brothers (I don't know why, but I was), and next thing you know, I'm behind someone with North Carolina license plates (I live in New York). Other times, it's a lot bigger and weirder.

I can't remember who said this, it may have been Lon Duquette, but the gist of it was, start doing magick, and you will notice how often the universe winks at you. That's it--the universe winking.

As for subjectivity in magick, I guess it's a good idea to learn the "traditional" way of doing rituals, etc., but after you know them, why not change them when you need to? What's the point of performing a ritual by the book if it doesn't mean anything to you, and doing it differently would mean a lot more? Which way would work? Which way is magick?

You know, I was just thinking about this yesterday--what a coincidence! (wink)

16:58 / 04.05.04

I see a couple of different issues here:

1. How does one incorporate a magical mind-set into everyday life?

2. What role do unconscious or informal workings play in magical practice?

So here are a couple of quick thoughts:

1. Choose a practice to organize your thoughts and transform the everyday world into something magical.

Here's a personal example:

A few weeks ago while walking down the street I saw a minivan bearing a little Warner Brothers "WB" shield and logo.

I thought, in kaballah W is Vav, with a value of 6 and B is Bet, with a value of 2. Add them together and they have a value of 8, associated with Chet. In Tarot, Chet represents The Chariot. A minivan is a vehicle, a type of chariot. So it all fits together.

This doesn't actually have any important objective meaning. But it does evidence a magical mind-set. The whole world becomes magical and part of your initiation.

The more you study magic, the more weird little coincidences like gale mentioned start popping up.

2. Speaking only from personal experience, it seems to me that the longer I practice the more my magical workings become either unconscious or informal.

On the one hand, there have been plenty of times I've thought, hmm, I should do a magical working to accomplish X. I then forget about the matter and a few days later X happens anyway. Magic or coincidence? I don't know.

On the other hand, there also have been been plenty of times I've thought, hmm, I should do a magical working to accomplish X. I then forget about doing a working, simply dig in, and accomplish X through a bit of hard work and effort. Magic? In a sense.

22:24 / 04.05.04

Yeah, I find the subjective synchronicities the most important and rewarding aspect of magickal practice (or shamanism or whatever you want to call it). I've come to regard this path as a controlled form of schizophrenia. The Drift is a great example - invoking magickal perception into your everyday awareness. Graffiti become sigils, license plates are kabbalistic riddles. "Interpret every event as a dealing of God with your Soul."

The rituals help create a magickal awareness which, in turn, guides the individual towards a mythic interpretation of their world. Ultimately we're doing this stuff to make our lives more meaningful, right? We pull magick into ourselves from that aetheric source, then project it out on the material world. The tarot is a great example. It can be regarded as a mirror of the subconscious, allowing us to relate the seemingly random draw of archetypes to the mythic currents within the depths of our minds. When you work with it, foster a relationship, the synchronicities start piling up as the cards become more & more in tune with your inner self.

01:40 / 05.05.04

I completely agree with this. After reading Pop-Magick on GM's website where he talks about viewing everything as having a magickal purpose or meaning, I decided that that would be my way of looking at things from now on.

The deeper I get, the more magickal everything becomes, and there is something really fucking positive about that. Whenever I'm depressed, I don't really get these impressions (probably because depression is essentially a selfish feeling) but as soon as I do, I can't feel anything other than uplifted. Not to mention the synchronicities (I love euphemisms) which seem to attract each other like magnets.

Fuck, I sound like someone who's born again.

---THREADROT TYPE="SLIGHT"---

Speaking of the Tarot, I've been meaning to use it in this way, but I've no idea how to employ existing abstract symbol systems. I've always just created my own meanings out of ... well my own beliefs I guess.

could someone give me an example? Or maybe a pointer...

---END THREADROT---

05:04 / 05.05.04

Personally, I've always felt that the subjective impressions are the most important, as they build up a belief system in a universe where magick is possible. Still, the objective observations are important too. Nothing works to solidify one's belief in magick like a brief trip to the "wierd zone". If I communicate with a spirit, am I communicating with an actual entity, or just talking to myself? Ultimately, I would say it makes no difference, and I choose to cognate the event as comming with a separate entity, because it solidifies my viewpoint of a magickal universe. The numerous impressions, visions, and interpretations help build up a steady state field of magick, and that IMO, is what's important. I like the idea put forth that magick is a controlled form of schizophrenia. I remember talking to a labeled schizophrenic once about the nature of reality and the universe. It made me wonder who was crazier, the schizoprenic or the doctors that were treating him. Personally, I believe that the line between magick and insanity is a fine one, and I'm quite sure that if I went into a psychiatrist and told him my magickal experences, I'd be offered medication forthwith. It's why I keep my "subjective impressions" to myself, (well, not totally.... I talk about them here....)

20:23 / 05.05.04

>> I can't remember who said this, it may have been Lon Duquette, but the gist of it was, start doing magick, and you will notice how often the universe winks at you. That's it--the universe winking.

I've always referred to it as the universe (or God) winking.

And yes, sometimes thinking about achieving a certain goal and then forgetting about it, even without taking action on it, making a sigil or doing another kind of magickal working, just suddenly manifests. It's an amazing experience, and a terrific feeling. It's almost as if you did a sigil, charged it, ripped it up and forgot about without actually doing any of those things.

07:02 / 06.05.04

How important to you are subjective impressions?

Goodness, they're just about the most important thing to me. When I put myself into an accepting state (like the aforementioned Magical Consciousness exercise from Pop Mag!c) I believe what my internal monologue tells me. I rarely discount anything it says during my receptive periods, even though I may not act on its suggestions. I think regularly entering into that state is what builds sensitivity to more forceful synchronicities.

Also, subjectivity is good because it works even when you're in a period of believing none of this has any objective validity. Maybe I pick up on a synchronicitous message because my subconscious was just primed to look for that particular message—doesn't matter, 'cause the message arrives, and even if it's not the universe chatting with you it tells you your subconscious wanted to give you X piece of information. I think magick is strongest when it works even when you're in a space where you don't think it does.

Shanghai Quasar

14:36 / 11.05.04

My opinion tends to wobble and shift when it comes to magic, so these minor notes tend to assist in shaking off bouts of total skepticism. Indeed, if I insisted on objective evidence for any of this fluff then I might subscribe to Skeptic Magazine instead of the Fortean Times.

I would have to wholeheartedly agree with the idea that magic is all about being inspired and letting your mind go for a wander. If anything, I question the value of seeking objectivity in magic. Does it matter if you can prove it or not?

Bugger to being right all the time.

And suddenly I feel that I've contributed nothing to the thread and that someone before me said all the same things. I'll take that as a cue to be quiet and read the other new threads.

15:10 / 11.05.04

Well thanks for bumping it. And cheers for all the responses, all. Been meaning to get back to it for a few days and hadn't bothered.

Alex - The Tarot thing, you'd just need to look up all the traditional associations and commit them to memory, probably best done over a period of time doing divinations etc with bursts of writing out the letters and their values and associations over and over. Crowely's 777 is the definitive resource for this though someone might be able to chuck something simplier your way. Any good book on tarot should get you started.

I started this thread, just because of something I experienced a few weeks ago. had some impressions I would have discounted when I was in my back in the mindset I mentioned above. Nowawdays, I'm more likely to nuture this stuff, and these ideas. Kind of with Tommy on the not bothering to question some of the time - though I am still cycnical to a degree at times. I'm quite agnostic about synchronicity unless it seems really powerfully relevant to me. But this has happened with enough frequency to blow away my disbelief.