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Parthenogenesis

 
 
cusm
19:46 / 22.04.04
Fatherless Mice Created Without Sperm

LONDON (Reuters) - Japanese and Korean scientists have created a fatherless mouse without using sperm in a reproductive feat akin to the birth of Dolly the sheep, the world's first cloned mammal.

Bees, ants, aphids and some fish and reptiles reproduce without having sex in a process called parthenogenesis. But creating a living mammal from same-sex parents was thought to be impossible.

Until now.

The birth of Kaguya, the daughter of two female mice, which is reported in the science journal Nature Wednesday by Tomohiro Kono of Tokyo University of Agriculture, shows that a healthy mammal known as a parthenote can be created without any male help.


The process is still far below reliable enough to be used on humans, more a proof of concept thing at this point. But like Dolly, its a bit of a milestone.
 
 
Tom Coates
20:45 / 22.04.04
For those of you who were not blessed with a Classical education and enjoy being patronised, I just thought I'd mention that Parthenogenesis is comprised of two greek words - genesis, which I don't think I need to go into, and parthenos which means virgin. Hence the Parthenon on the Acropolis is actually the temple of Athene Parthenos - meaning Athene the virgin. Coincidentally Athene was also born (kind of) parthenogenetically, in that she emerged from the head of Zeus, although he had shagged a woman and eaten her or something so it doesn't really count I guess. Briefly on the subject of Athene and related epithets, there's another temple on the Acropolis called the temple of Athene Nike, where Nike meant 'victory' - that's the same Nike that is now used for branding shoes...
 
 
matsya
22:14 / 22.04.04
yeah, there's that whole pretty lady Mary Mother of God thing that kind of hangs around the parthenogenesis concept, too...

and if I recall correctly, wasn't parthenogenesis one of the 'escape clauses' for the all-female dinosaurs in Jurassic Park

actually, i don't really want to recall correctly...

m.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
23:41 / 22.04.04
I just sort of wonder what the point of this experiment actually was. It can't have been cheap, in terms of lives or money, and ok they're mice lives, and it's corporate cash ( at least I'd feel a bit sick if it turned out it wasn't, ) but some of the subjects must have died in pain. And honestly, for what ? It's not as if we're talking about a cure for cancer.
 
 
Aertho
11:51 / 23.04.04
Perhaps the possibility of gay parents fathering/mothering a child of their own genetic information?

Naaaaahhhh. Not even in the Netherlands would they be that liberal.
 
 
Sekhmet
16:19 / 23.04.04
Hmm. If they perfect this, men will become biologically superfluous.
 
 
cusm
16:34 / 23.04.04
One of the more interesting bits to come of it however is the genetic necessity of a male parent. There are numerous safeguards in place to ensure that parthenogenesis does not occur that must be overcome in order for this to even have a chance.
 
 
Sekhmet
16:58 / 23.04.04
The human genome is complicated enough that I don't imagine they could use this on humans... at least not for a loooong time. Still, mammalian parthenogenesis is velly intelestink...

(geek) Do mice have midichlorians? (/geek)
 
 
gravitybitch
00:35 / 24.04.04
We can already build a mouse that glows green... what do they need midichlorians for??

I'm kind of thrilled (on an intellectual level) that this is possible with mammals, but I really don't see men becoming obsolete just because we can mash two eggs together and get offspring. Frozen sperm will provide babies quite nicely without requiring all the extra manipulation and risk of failure.... (and if one is a "purist," I believe the sperm can be sorted x vs y chromosomes so one can influence the gender of the offspring)

I'm also amused by the tones of the replies. Not to poke fun at any individual, but... there's uber-academic that completely skirts (pardon the expression) any current-day reflection, ultra-practical that bemoans the lack of any application for the amount of money/pain spent, and thumping on about "safeguards" and the "necessity" of male parenting.

There's probably a serious headshop thread in this, but I'm not going to start it...
 
 
distractile
06:16 / 26.04.04
New Scientist's editorial this week points out that "parthenogenesis" isn't a particularly good name for this process, since that's usually used to mean the development of a single egg into an embryo. It suggests "homoparentism" as a better alternative, to reflect the sexual dimension involved here.

Plus, it doesn't sound like writing males out of the story is that hard (at least for a well-equipped genetics lab) - just fiddling with one gene that does the rest of the work.
 
 
Hydra vs Leviathan
17:41 / 21.12.06
Parthenogenesis occurs in Komodo Dragons. And they're due to hatch round about Christmas... apocalypse, anyone? ; )
 
 
All Acting Regiment
19:02 / 21.12.06
This is also rather Who-ish/apocalyptic
 
 
Unconditional Love
04:47 / 22.12.06
Ah the Jesus lizard, david icke be warned, the scaled brothers are preying.

Do you think the reptile brain is capable of self perpetuating unmitigated crap, mine seems to be.
 
 
trantor2nd
13:38 / 01.01.07
Since pathenogens are homozygous, this would be the ultimate way of purebreeding humans with individualism (clones would be identical). Sig Heil!
 
 
Red Concrete
21:01 / 01.01.07
I don't think they are particularly homozygous... It is an unfortunate reaction to developments in any field even slightly related to genetics that Nazis and eugenics are the first things some people think of. (I wish some form of Godwin's law could be applied)
 
 
trantor2nd
23:46 / 01.01.07
Since only a single parent contributes to the genes of the individual, the parthenogen can't be heterozygous. I'm a bit rusty on the subject, since I assumed reptilian parthenogens would actually be haploid organisms, which I've never heard of in humans. Any topic on genetics would elicit discussions on eugenics.
 
 
Red Concrete
11:04 / 02.01.07
I'm not sure about reptiles, but humans (and I would imagine all mammals) are not viable if haploid for a single chromosome, never mind all of them. I think only plants, yeasts, etc - i.e. things that can flip ploidy - could perform the type of parthenogenesis that you're thinking of. And quite obviously in the case of these mice where there were two of them involved, there should be no excess homozygosity. If you think about it there are several mechanisms that could lead to uni-parental partheogenesis also, without haploidy, and with only some or no increased homozygosity.

While I can perfectly see where you're coming from, 'Sig Heil'-wise, I'm just lamenting that that's what occurs to people. It's not particularly insightful (science-wise or ethics-wise).
 
 
trantor2nd
00:26 / 03.01.07
So does anyone have a link to the progenitor article in Nature which would shed light on the specific process used for the parthenogen mice?
 
 
Red Concrete
19:11 / 03.01.07
Original paper (pdf).
 
 
Hydra vs Leviathan
21:24 / 04.01.07
Parthenogenesis can occur naturally in humans (and therefore presumably other mammals) - in fact, the topic has a whole lot of Switchboard, Head Shop and even Temple implications...

As briefly as i can manage, a mammal capable of parthenogenesis occurs when the X chromosome is duplicated twice, resulting in a karyotype of 48XXXY (known as Klinefelter's syndrome type 2, and/or true hermaphroditism - the much commoner Klinefelter's type 1 is karyotype 47XXY). Klinefelter's type 2 individuals have both male and female gonads (testes and ovaries) and, IIRC, may have full external sets of both male and female genitalia, or ambiguous genitalia (tho when it occurs in humans they, like many other intersex children, are usually surgically altered at birth, often without the parents' consent or even knowledge). In outward appearance they can range from passing-as-male via androgynous to passing-as-female, tho without surgical or hormonal alteration (i really don't want to have to call it "treatment") they tend to (but don't always) have mostly female secondary sexual characteristics and a female gender identity.

(Please note that my source for this information is word of mouth from an intersex friend who knows people with this condition, and thus i don't have links for it. 48XXXY gets a passing mention on the Wikipedia article for Klinefelter's syndrome, but doesn't have its own article there, and i'm not sure if there are primary sources online to enable one to be written. I'd be grateful if anyone does have any links about it, since corroboration is always welcome...)

People with the XXXY karyotype are capable of self-fertilisation, but not of being fertilised by sperm from anyone else. I know of cases of pregnancy, but all ended in abortion, to my knowledge without the "patients" being given choice or consent over it, due to the extreme medical, psychiatric, governmental, military and religious suppression of transgender and intersex people (a subject which i could rage about for gods only know how long)...

I'm not certain if the offspring of such a self-fertilisation would be an exact clone of the mother, or if genetic differences would occur from the splitting of diploid cells with karyotype XXXY into haploid eggs and sperm and then recombination (if that is in fact what happens, i'm not sure if it's been reserached well enough to know if both gametyes are produced "normally" and then form a zygote or if the zygote comes directly from the stem cells) - no idea at all if this is covered in university teaching of genetics...

The Temple aspect, of course, comes from the belief in some sectors of Christianity that not only Jesus was born of a virgin, but that Mary was also born of a virgin herself (i forget the exact theological reasons some Catholics, IIRC, have for believing this was necessary, but there's a convoluted reason that has something to do with purity and original sin), and the links in some Gnostic scriptures of Mary and her mother to priesthoods with a tradition of transsexual and intersex priestesses...

There's even crazier shit related to that, but it would probably be way off-topic for Laboratory...
 
 
trantor2nd
02:55 / 05.01.07
The parthenogen mice are reconstructed (viable rate of 0.6%) from two female parents. Even if non-imprinting mutants like those used in the experiment spontaneously arose, eggs don't just fuse with each other. Meiosis of the Klinefelter with four sex chromosomes would still leave haploid genome for the rest of the chromosomes, so no spontaneous parthenogenesis there. Self-fertilization of true hermaphrodites would result in the expression of so many recessive allelles that miscarriages would be the rule. Offspring that do survive would not be clones, similar to a parental pair never having (non-twin)identical children even if they try ad infinitum.
Do post the crazy shit if it is seemingly backed by scientific evidence. Where do they discuss the viability of the mythological all-women Amazonian culture- e.g. like with Wonder Woman? Or do any of the feminist utopian novels delve into the topic?
 
 
Elettaria
17:18 / 09.01.07
Feminist utopian novels utilising parthenogenesis: for first-wave feminism try Charlotte Perkins Gilman's Herland (1915), one of the earliest utopian novels written by a woman. For second-wave feminism, I can offer you Joanna Russ' The Female Man (1975). There's probably more since then.

According to Christianity, Jesus was a product of The Virgin Birth rather than parthenogenesis as we use the term (yes, I know one is the Greek for the other, bloody language), since his father was meant to be God. I've just learnt that Islam, on the other hand, really does see Jesus as a product of parthenogenesis, in that they consider him to have had no father of any sort, with Mary/Miriam/Maryam as sole parent. After all, God is supposed to have created Adam and Eve out of nothing, so this would be an equally believable miracle. The quibble that real parthenogenesis can only produce female offspring from a female parent probably isn't the point, as a result.
 
 
Hydra vs Leviathan
11:07 / 10.01.07
Well, it's very possible for even an XX "normal female" to come out looking externally like a male, in terms of external genitalia and even secondary development at puberty, just as it is possible for an XY to appear externally female (and be mentally female - eg the likes of Jamie Lee Curtis and several Olympic sprinters) - and i'd imagine that, in the case of such an unusual method of reproduction as parthenogenesis, the likelihood of any intersex condition (which are a lot more common than most people think) would be significantly increased...

(altho the only way i know it would be possible for parthenogenesis to occur in mammals is the XXXY karyotype mentioned above - incidentally, i asked my intersex friend about it the other night and she said that it simply hasn't been researched enough to know whether the zygote comes from meiosis followed by self-fertilisation, or some other "self-cloning" process)

As for fiction, while it isn't exactly a "feminist utopia" (more like a dystopian satire of feminism), there's also John Wyndham's story "Consider Her Ways", in which males are extinct and an all-female, parthenogenetic human spciety is modelled after that of social insects...
 
  
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