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Does our mid -life crisis start in our 20's?

  
 
Why?
19:23 / 21.04.04
First off: Moderators, I'm sorry if I'm starting a thread in the wrong section. I'm relatively new here and have been debating with myself for the last two days about where this falls because my question is both cultural and psychological - sort of cultural psych or something. Anyway, the wheel stopped on the Head Shop because I'm primarily interested in people's heads (like the barber on Penny Lane I guess). But I won't be upset if it's moved somewhere else, or if this first paragraph is deleted.

I was recently having a conversation where my friend was telling me his mother's theory that most people - and I'm guessing she meant middle class Americans though I'm definitely curious to learn about the experieces of other countries/cultures with this type of phenomenon - but so she believes that a depression sets in on most people in their late 20's and lasts into their 40's.

She says that most people reach a point a few years out of school where they either a) thought they had life (meaning, purpose, et. al.) all figured out and suddenly realize that they aren't finding happiness, or b) they've never had it figured out but suddenly feel an acute sense that they should have figured it out by now. This in turn leads to the depression that seems so prevalent today.

According to her theory this depression lasts into one's 40's whereupon a few different things can happen to circumvent it. One, a person can have a breakdown, or mid-life crisis, and turn one's life upside down and start the whole "search for meaning" over again with a flashy car or girl/boyfriend half one's age. Two, a person can find fulfillment through one's kids or career or religion or hobby or other "outlet." Three, a person can simply realize that it's impossible to figure out the purpose of existence and decide to just enjoy the life they've got. I imagine that some combination of those three options would happen (like letting religion decide the answers for you so you can work towards retirement and buying beachfront property where you'll spend your days carving wooden ducks or something).

So my question is in two parts: 1) Does this scenario sound familiar or like it holds any truth, or do people have alternate theories? and 2) If true, could recognizing this pattern at say 25 allow one to do anything to avoid it, or is it some sort of "rite of passage" that we all have to wade through?
 
 
LykeX
22:45 / 21.04.04
Well, I can say that personally, within the last year or so, I have gone through this exact phase: from knowing everything and being sure of how the world works, to being completely confused, wobbling between several world views and generally not knowing what the fuck is going on. The only difference is that I haven't been depressed. Actually, I think my life is changing for the better. Much more relaxed and fun.

Of course I still don't have a clue what's going on, but just like you mentioned, I'm wondering whether that is even possible.
I think a good sense of absurd humour helps. When it feels like life is chaining you to the wall and fucking you up the ass, laugh out loud. It's worked for me so far.

Whether this must necessarily be true for everyone, I have no idea. I do however wonder if trying to escape it won't just lead to one of the typical routes: braindead materialism, braindead religion or simply being braindead after ODing on crack.
I think it's something you have to work through. But what do I know.
 
 
lysander
08:14 / 22.04.04
Funny this topic pops up today, I was wondering the same thing on the bus to work this morning

I'm just popping in to this catagory, age wise at least. I think people in mid to late 20's have started to rack up enough life experience to realise that a lot of the crap that was previously important to them is not actually important at all, certainly in the case of people who veer towards looking for a spiritual as opposed to material finale to their mid life crisis.
 
 
Why?
12:24 / 22.04.04
I think people in mid to late 20's have started to rack up enough life experience to realise that a lot of the crap that was previously important to them is not actually important at all

I too think this is true. I'm glad to hear that there's someone for whom this feels like a good thing. I'm always taking a new look at the same old problem but sort of feared that maybe all this running around in circles was unhealthy. At least I can see how this would be frustrating and lead to a need for medication.

This makes me wonder if all those profs in school were onto something when they told us as undergrads that we'd never have a really worthwhile thought until we were over forty. I always thought they were just frustrated old cranks who wanted to make us all cynical, but perhaps there is a case for needing to go through the process of re-evaluting our priorities a few times before we figure anything out. But see, that sounds kind of depressing to me...
 
 
Sekhmet
13:05 / 22.04.04
Recently in the U.S. I've started hearing about something some psychologists and cultural pundits are referring to as the "quarter-life crisis". It sets in somewhere around early to mid-20's and I think is considered a separate phenomenon from the "mid-life crisis".

Seems to me that after graduating college (assuming one went to college) most people start working, and for a while they're happy having something to do and money to spend, but after a bit this wears thin and people start wondering what they're doing with their lives. A sense of disillusionment induces the "quarter-life crisis" and people get depressed, start looking for meaning. Many people then start devoting their energy to some project or cause - say, buy a house and start raising a family, or get involved in politics. This brings them out of the funk for a bit, but their enthusiasm wanes eventually, the kids leave home, and then people find out they've only been distracting themselves from the real problem of identity and purpose, and that meanwhile their youth has escaped them. Then comes the big nasty "mid-life" crisis, where people go nuts.

The Western world just doesn't know how to deal with the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything very well...
 
 
Why?
13:37 / 22.04.04
Thanks, Sekhmet, I'd never heard of this "quarter-life crisis" phenomenon (except as a phrase in that John Mayer song). I'll definitely have to google for some more info on it.

You're right that Westerners have a tough time with the "big" questions. For some reason, I feel like it's all tied into our freedom. Maybe we're too free to choose our own path and we're not mentally prepared to handle the responsibility. Could indoctrination and organized religion be a good thing?

For more on our freewill, see threads on freewill vs determinism and overcoming indocrination.
 
 
Sekhmet
13:50 / 22.04.04
My operating theory has long been that every basic choice a human being makes comes down to a question of Freedom vs. Security. These are the polarized desires of the human heart, and people tend to gravitate towards one or the other in most of their life choices. Any path we take which increases our relative freedom results in a corresponding decrease in our level of security, and vice versa.

So given that concept, perhaps we could view the Life Crisis phenomena as the result of pendulum vacillations between those extremes. The security of a steady job and predictable home life gives way to a desire for more freedom, the ability to take risks and make choices that are outside the norm. These desires war with each other and produce confusion and depression, until the individual chooses one over the other, and either settles back down to the status quo, or starts engaging in risk-taking behaviors, buys a Porche and runs off to the Bahamas with a young floozy. Or, alternatively, goes off to become a Buddhist monk, or joins an activist organization, or starts a weird hobby. Then the desire for freedom is sated. At least until the new situation starts to feel too secure...
 
 
charrellz
00:03 / 23.04.04
Don't know how helpful this is, but a couple quick things from my psych book.

First, it defines a midlife crisis as "a difficult, turbulent period of doubts and reappraisal of one's life". No specification of an age involved, so I suppose the reflection many people engage in after college could count.

Also, "Midlife may bring a period of increased reflection as people contemplate the remainder of their lives, but it's clear that the fabled midlife crisis is not typical." I forgot what my point here was, but something someone said earlier made me want to post this bit... maybe someone will think of something smart to say about it.

Oh, in response to part of the topic abstract: "can it be prevented?" Yes. Don't think about things so much. Ok, so maybe not the best plan, but not that far off either.
 
 
Why?
12:45 / 23.04.04
The Freedom versus Security principle is interesting. Sounds kinda Patriot Actish for those of us in the states, what with all the debate about civil liberties versus protection involved in "Homeland Security," but I think I get what you're saying. We want to avoid the constraint of a "normal" life that's just like everyone else - a bunch of automatons mindlessly punching a clock - but there is a natural tendency to want safety and to be confident in our future. Do you think life is constantly in a state of flux leaning more in one direction and then swinging to the other? Is there a balance between the two, and what would that look like? Risky security? Could this maybe explain the popularity of say, gambling for people who by all other accounts are down to earth, work a steady job, etc.?

As a sort of side note, I have another friend who believes life is just a series of crises and is best lived just this side of collapsed. Would he be classified in the freedom seeking category or is he just a nut?

As for thinking a bit less, a real grain of wisdom there. Damn my philosophy degree!
 
 
Sekhmet
15:12 / 23.04.04
The Patriot Act is an extreme example of what happens when one option is chosen to the exclusion of the other, IMO. Individual people - and groups, and nations - do tend to vacillate between them, but most seem to live a little toward the Security pole, which is how we get things like Socialism, suburbs, and seatbelt legislation.

I believe that life would be happier and more fulfilling, albeit more dangerous, lived closer to the Freedom pole, but most people don't want to risk it. In order to sate the innate urge towards it, though, they ride roller coasters and watch subversive stand-up comedy - activities that simulate risk-taking without much of the accompanying danger.

BTW, per a Google search, there was apparently a New York Times Bestseller book about the "quarter-life crisis" phenomenon, and it has a website with discussion groups at www.quarterlifecrisis.com if anyone's interested...
 
 
runawayworld
02:53 / 24.04.04
i think i've been going through a mid-life crisis since i graduated high school four years ago. that whole "what i thought was important isn't" thing has evolved into "nothing is important" then to "everything is always okay". i think the mid-life crisis is really THE life crisis of trying to get the most out of one's time on earth. i don't really want the feeling to go away either... it keeps me going.

but, maybe i can say this because i no longer feel the hopelessness of depression. somehow, i don't seem be able to talk myself into feeling hopeless anymore.

i think the realization (or onset) of the "life crisis" occurs either after high school or after college... or really just any time a person realizes their responsibility for their circumstances. once the socially prescribed life ceases to be fulfilling, one comes to the "life crisis".
 
 
wicker woman
08:01 / 24.04.04
Personal thoughts. I think much of the phenomenon has to do with a society that equates personal accomplishment with the acquisition of goods... "He who dies with the most toys" and all that.

People are brought up with the idea that you have to 'do this' and 'be that' to be successful. When real life comes down and they find out they're going to be neither this or that, it tends to rearrange the priorities, for better or worse. Unfortunately, it's usually for the worse.

The gory death of imagination as people grow up has a lot to do with it as well. How are people to create a better life for themselves if they can't even concieve of it? If we are to stop the 'mid-life crisis', maybe we need to stop letting other people define for us what is and isn't a crisis in the first place.

Meh. I'm too tired to elaborate on this much more.
 
 
Benny the Ball
08:25 / 25.04.04
One theory I remember reading years ago suggests that men age in chunks of 7, and women in chunks of 3 - women tied to the lunar cycle, and men I'm not sure why, linked to egypt somehow, but to seven - therefore, women mature faster and also go through more adaptations in life, more 'crisis' points if you like - with 30 being a key point for them. With men a key age is 28, a point where a realisation that past dreams are being overwhelmed by the realisms of the restrictions of time and age.

It may be true, may not be, but I recently went through something like a mid-life crisis when i went through this age, and I know of several 28 year old men who had massive life-changing realisations.
 
 
Sekhmet
17:37 / 26.04.04
Hmm. Interesting. My husband and I are both 28, and he has indeed gone through some enormous life changes over this year. Coincidence?... Now I want to chart my life out and see if it follows the three-year cycle...
 
 
Skeleton Camera
01:10 / 27.04.04
Quarter-life crisis! This came up among friends as an entirely isolated idea ("entirely" may be extreme), unrelated to any research on the subject. And it's certainly an actual phenomenon. I agree that it is THE life crisis playing itself out when and how it must. A midlife crisis, culturally more well-known, is likely only mid-life because of the traditional track of the past half century. Meaning: high school - college - employment - family - an interia and path that if performed "correctly" (as expectedly) does not offer pause for ideological collapse until sometime in the 40s or 50s. It may seem foreign to Lithers, what with us being subcultural and in tune and thoughtful and all, but it does play out all the time in the milieu.
(That's sarastic, that last bit, just in case...)

There is also the 7 cycle to consider, 7 being a pattern of cellular regeneration generally linked with upheaval in life. So age 7, 14, 21, 28, 35, 42... etc. At each of these points one enters a new stage of development. Look at 21 and 28 as prime examples, usually more dramatic than the others. And 42 in mid-life terms.
Does anyone know of hardcore writing on this subject, by the way? It's been oft-discussed but I haven't done much research on textual support for it.
 
 
Why?
12:38 / 27.04.04
Seamus, there have been a couple of books written on the "quarter life crisis". As Sekhmet pointed out above there is a website called quarterlifecrisis.com that addresses the issue and advertises one of the books called Quarterlife Crisis: the Unique Challenges of Life in Your Twenties. Here's a short description from a review on www.youngminds.org.uk:

"According to Alexandra Robbins and Abby Wilner, the quarterlife crisis affects many of today's young graduates, or 'twentysomethings' as their book refers to them. It is a period in young peoples lives when they have left university and are finding it tough to find their bearings in the 'real world'. Symptoms can include a loss of direction and feelings of self doubt in a person's ability to be a success in life, even depression in severe cases."

The review goes on to explain that the book is mostly just anecdotes from a bunch of twenty-somethings and was written so that "those suffering the quaterlife crisis in isolation will become aware that their feelings are not unique." The authors are not psychologists so it doesn't seem like any kind of clinical, psychological research or anything. I haven't dug up any "real" research on it yet, but I'm still looking when I get a free minute or two at work.

I have to say that most of what I've found on it are conversations on message boards such as this or people's blogs, but here's one article on it (mostly using the above mentioned book as a source):
Quarterlife crisis
 
 
Secularius
20:34 / 29.04.04
Wow, this is something I've definitely been going through. And I haven't even finished University or decided what I really want to do with my life, and I'm 24. I keep changing paths. When you're 18-20 you're so optimistic, you have your college years in front of you and you can do anything and be anything you want to be. I had big ideas about myself as a neo-renaissance artist/architect/inventor, and it seemed like it was possible. Now it seems like my life's not going to come even close to my early hopes and expectations, that I'm destined to a dull and mediocre existence like (almost) everybody else. Have you read the books by Michel Houellebecq? He captures this feeling pretty well.
 
 
astrojax69
00:26 / 03.05.04
all life's a crisis.

i think it cogent to note the phenomenon (of what has become '1/4 life crisis'), but i also think that there are many other socially constructed markers of more deeply underlying issues that require some effort on our part to alleviate.

reality television is one such marker! why is it that we are just now, in the ante room of a new millenium (as one way to tell that we are thousands of years on since civilisation emerged) starting to think that paying to watch other people do nothing in particular is a good idea?

so what needs to be done? we need to change our mindset, instil through our education (yes, schools, but learning is lifelong...) a new one, one more focussed on one exulting in the capacities of the evolutionary accidents of consciousness and humanity.

facts and figures seem to be the bread and butter of our education system, but we should be engaging the individual more readily and be open to celebrating difference. then we shouldn't be so weighed down by expectations and suffer quarter, mid or other life crises... (or mebbe just a few concerning the instinct to mate...!)
 
 
Linus Dunce
17:30 / 03.05.04
But none of this is real 'mid-life crisis' stuff, is it?

Forgive me. I'm not trying to detract from your discomfort, I know exactly how you feel, but the above seem to be career/lifestyle-related doubts and misgivings ... not quite the same thing as waking up one morning and realising that you are likely closer to the day of your death than the day of your birth.

Having said that, would a 'mid-capitalist-lifestyle epiphany' get so much sympathetic magazine coverage?

PS: Any women on this thread? No?
PPS: Is this really Head Shop stuff?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:37 / 03.05.04
Good question - I've been holding a watching brief on this one. I think, in general, that it would probably get a wider response in the Conversation without significantly affecting the quality of the discussion. Anyone mind if I move to have it moved?
 
 
Why?
12:43 / 06.05.04
I don't mind at all if it's moved.
 
  
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