BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Underground > Comic Books >

1602 - Issue 8 - The End

  
 
ThePirateKing
18:50 / 20.04.04
I really enjoyed the earlier issues but was anyone else dissappointed by the last one?

Problems I had with it:

1/ I felt like it ended with a whimper not a bang. Everyone got to America to do what exactly? Some feeble hocus pocus with a weird looking time warp thing.

2/ I felt like the series should have been 12 issues not 8. It felt cut short to me. Many early issues were given over to setting up all the characters but then little was done with them after that. The whole thing (now we have an ending) reads like an introduction to the universe of 1602 rather than (like Watchmen) the main story.

3/ Annoyingly Gaiman / Marvel wants to have their cake and eat it too. Thus the Marvel time line is restored by the removal of the good Captain, but the mini-alternate universe of 1602 os (some how???) allowed to survive in the oersonal care of The Watcher. Thus allowing Marvel to cash in on the success and sales of 1602 by having other series / mini-series set in 1602 & 1603 & 1604 etc etc as indeed is now their plan.

4/ Use of that very common Grim Future idea. We've seen just about every writer use this idea since Chris C. first (?) used it in the now famous and much ripped off 'Days of Future Past' way back when in X-Men #141 & #142. I was expecting (and from reading sites on the web - so were other folks) a really interesting explaination of the prime mystery of the series ie why Captain America went back in time. Now it turns out that he didn't want to go back in time but was sent there againist his will by folks who just wanted him out of the way? ANyone else find this a rather dissappointing reason?

5/ Over use of Captain America as the lone hero idea. Although it makes sense that Captain A would be the fore runner of the rest of the Marvels - just as he was in publishing terms in our real world - the idea of him as the surviving Marvel hero has surely already been done to death by the Earth X trilogy.

6/ And while we're at it. Small point but an important one because this is the reason that the whole 1602 world exists... if you had captured Captain America and you were a bad guy who wanted him out of the way - why in Heaven's name would you sand him into the past?
a/ He could work out a way to make sure that you (the bad guy) was never born!
b/ If they have time travel technology in this grim future than any resistance fighter could presumably gain access to it and bloody rescue him. If you want to get rid of Captain America for good then cut his bloody head off.

I found the 'time travel as high tech exile' element hard to swallow. Not least because the series had some nice use of magic (Dr Strange) in it and a sudden Time Tunnel explaination seemd to really jolt with the rest of the story.

A dissappointing and anti-climatical ending to a promising series. I liked the idea, but I don't wanna see numerous 1602 spin offs and continuations by lesser talents.
 
 
raelianautopsy
19:11 / 20.04.04
This was definately not Gaiman's best work.

I didn't feel like it was cut short and it should have been longer, I felt like it was too long and dragged out. It was very stretched with not much happening to justify 8 issues. The whole thing was just an introduction to his 1602 world. The Dr. Strange parts were interesting, but on the whole not worth it. Hopefully there will not be any sequels.

(oh, and Days of Future Past was X-Men 142 and 143, I think)
 
 
ThePirateKing
21:56 / 20.04.04
When I said it felt like it should have been longer - what I meant was that (as you say) not much happened and then it bloody ended away. I feel a bit conned now, - the whole thing was clearly just an introduction to the 1602-verse rather than a proper meaty story in its own right.

Sadly, sequels and other follow ups are already in the works because of it's v good sales.
 
 
sleazenation
22:16 / 20.04.04
Will you feel more conned or less conned if profits from this series do not end up delivering Miracleman back into print?
 
 
X-Himy
22:16 / 20.04.04
I thought there was some great moments of characterization, especially in the last ish (Angel saying something to the effect of "I might have been fooled by Jean's male costume, but I was still in love with him/her."). And if you didn't get a tingle when Thor showed up in 6, then I pity you.

I will admit to being a bit disappointed with Captain America backstory within the 1602 universe, it felt, well old. In addition, Gaiman said that the President-For-Life in the comic was an established Marvel character meant to be immediately obvious, but I cannot figure out who it is supposed to be. Does anyone have ideas?
 
 
ThePirateKing
22:26 / 20.04.04
The early issues had some nice bits - I really liked the stuff with Doctor Strange - he seemed much darker & more interesting than his normal Marvel counterpart. Thor's appearence was also well done. I didn't say I didn't like the early issues - only that I found the end dissappointing.

I don't know who the president-for-life was either.
 
 
ThePirateKing
22:29 / 20.04.04
RE: Miraclemen

It's just a shame that the end of 1602 was dissappointing. I don't see the situation with Miracleman getting back into print as being related. Surely Gaiman has enough money from elsewhere - I'm not sure exactly what relationship you're suggesting? I think Miracleman has had its day anyway. Great title, but let it rest in peace.
 
 
sleazenation
22:43 / 20.04.04
The relations is this From Neil Gaiman's blog

To help defray the court costs and administer the Miracleman rights, Marvel's CEO Joe Quesada and he formed a company called Marvels and Miracles, and part of this agreement is for Neil to create two works for Marvel, of which 2003-2004's 1602 is the first. (For a more information, please visit Icv2: here.
 
 
ThePirateKing
22:52 / 20.04.04
Thanks for that - interesting, but doesn't make me more or less dissappointed in the ending of 1602.
 
 
ThePirateKing
22:23 / 21.04.04
In reply to X-Himy:

I saw this suggestion for the identity of the Bush lookalike. I'm not familar with the character myself.

"Looking at the picture with fresh eyes, it seems likely that he is intended to be Killgrave The Purple Man. Killgrave has the superhuman power to command other people’s wills, so it’s easy to imagine his ability to elevate himself to a totalitarian president. (Killgrave was used by Brian Bendis recently, with chilling effectiveness, in the final issues of Alias.)"
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
16:31 / 22.04.04
No time for a really post right now, but I'd just like to say that of the characters in 1602, I liked Neil's versions of Thor, Strange, and Fury (not counting his MAX apperance) better than the regular versions. I'll re read the entire series and than post my other opinions...
 
 
X-Himy
16:45 / 22.04.04
I guess it could be the Purple Man. I considered the purple color of his skin to be an art conceit rather than the intended color.
 
 
ThePirateKing
19:39 / 22.04.04
Purple Man - I don't know it sure beats the heck out of me - especially on repeated readings. Gaiman's doing an interview soon and will solve the mystery (aka the slack writing) once and for all. Maybe.
 
 
_Boboss
08:15 / 26.04.04
'we were two knights sharing one horse'

fucking brilliant.
 
 
Spaniel
09:36 / 26.04.04
I'm surprised the cussing hasn't already begun.

Allow me to start: I thought 1602 was shit.

Here's a bunch of others who thought so too.
 
 
_Boboss
10:14 / 26.04.04
-yeah all that olde worlde talking was hilarious. well done for bringing that one back-

'we were two nights sharing one horse'

fucking brilliant

the atomic intervention event didn't even occur til the end of the story. cool. the reveal of cap in no 7 was good, and his craziness in ish 8 too. the treacherous, tops-off death dealer fury was good to see. maggie turns good, reed has the fundamental forces classified as knights of the round table. a ball of wool knits itself out of nothing. strange's dead head, pickled in brandy, clea off to live in ditko-land. the supertypes invade early america, turning it into their own colony. more i think about it, the better it was in fact.

everyone's entitled to their anti-gaiman prejudice, but i feel that the shit-and-cheese balance was finely struck by this mini series.
 
 
X-Himy
10:38 / 26.04.04
Yeah, I will second loving the fact that Clea created the door and walked back to her realm, in a beautiful display of art (can any Ditko-ites or Strange fans tell me the name of that realm?). I was also a fan of the off-handed way Clea said that someone went mad after drinking the brandy that her husband's head was pickling in.

I will admit to being very disappointed when I finally heard what 1602 was going to be. It sounded to me like an Elseworld, and not a particularly original Elseworld. But after warming up to the idea, I felt that 1602 was generally well written, with some great moments of characterization, and fantastic art. I just wish Gaiman would have done something different in the Marvel U.
 
 
ThePirateKing
23:43 / 27.04.04
In answer to your question about Clea, she came from the Dark Dimension. And eventually became it's Sorceress Supreme as Dr Strange is on Marvel Earth.
 
 
grant
19:29 / 28.04.04
I just wish he'd turned out to be a Melungeon.

Alas.

The two knights thing is (I have no idea how obvious this is to people) stolen from the Templar seal, which was an image of two knights riding one horse. Meant to symbolize their poverty and teamwork, but also used to create sexual innuendo by King Philip's persecutors.

The characters seemed about right. Richards's intellectual system was nice, too.
 
 
The Falcon
22:31 / 28.04.04
Fairly interesting Gaiman interview, mostly about 1602.

Apparently Cap came from 2061. I hope Neil sees his way to a mirror series, thus titled. And rather better paced.
 
  
Add Your Reply