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Infinite Possiblities

01:22 / 20.04.04

If Im going to use the mathematical symbol for infinity (8 sideways) in a magical system, are there any implications, positive or negative, of which you are aware, and does anyone have experience with this?

01:47 / 20.04.04

Well, it does appear in some versions of the Tarot, right? I'm not a card-user m'self, but investigating the historical significance of its use there might yield some clues.

02:30 / 20.04.04

thanks. Hadn't thought of that, as I have next to no experience with tarot. I'll take a look

03:38 / 20.04.04

I was once beginning a psychedelic voyage, and looked over at a friends necklace that had an etching of the infinity symbol. As I was entering into realms outside of the ego, it struck me as funny because it struck me that what that stood for was ME i.e. the Self, and thus every individual.

I know this does not directly answer your question, but it made me think of the superficiality of symbols as opposed to experience.

Shanghai Quasar

06:11 / 20.04.04

The symbol in question is called the Lemniscate. If sources are to be believed, it was first used by John Wallis, an English mathematician, to represent infinity in Arithmetica Infinitorum (1655). Lemniscate refers to the shape itself, derived from the Latin lemniscus (ribbon).

09:48 / 20.04.04

About the symbol appearing in the Tarot... In the Rider-Waite Tarot deck, the lemniscate (learn a new word every day!) appears over the heads of the Magician and the woman in the Strength card. Many other decks (e.g. Crowley-Harris/"Thoth") also feature the symbol over the Magicians head. Magician and Strength cards both have meanings of self-confidence and the directed Will.

I seem to recall that in the medieval decks the Magician (the Juggler, as it was then called) had a hat that looked a bit like the lemniscate, and that is where the Golden Dawn got the idea of putting the symbol over Magician's head.

12:17 / 20.04.04

It's also a form of the Ourobourus, which may or may not have associations you can use.

Shanghai Quasar

12:58 / 20.04.04

Would the positioning of the Lemniscate above the head of the Magician signify the "infinite" (or spiritual forces, which are theoretically infinite) that the Magician is seeking to control?

13:05 / 20.04.04

I suppose it represents Kia or the all-pervading "stuff" or "cosmic glue" that keeps the superstrings together. I have a theory that synchronicities can act as agents that affect the probilities and thus connects vibrating superstrings, to thus manifest realities. So therefore we theoritically can prove that in differing dimensional holograms there exists differing synchronicities. Haven't got the Rider-Waite deck but I know what you mean. Are you refering to the force that lies outside of dualism I gather???? Some people call it god, others GAOTU, others the universal blueprint, the TAO, etc....

14:54 / 20.04.04

I use the Lemniscate frequently, mostly because I'm slightly obsessed with the concept of infinity. I find it especially helpful for meditation (trying to picture infinity can make you zone out pretty good). I often involve the symbol in my sigils, as I feel it ups the power a little, mostly by the way I visualize it - think of a mirror reflecting a mirror, but with energy being reflected. Infinity also lends itself to chaos in my mind.

Quick side note, the lemniscate was used by the Romans to indicate any huge number.

15:13 / 20.04.04

I have the infinte sign (the flatten out strip that appeared in several issues of "invisibles". Morbius strip I think it's referred to, correct me if I'm wrong) tattooed on the small of my back.

It's mainly there as a cosmic joke: something that represents infinite on something that by it's very nature is finite (ie me). I suppose I can use it in any number of forms though. Must have a think about it.

17:02 / 20.04.04

thanks y'all

19:19 / 20.04.04

The Lemniscate over the Magicians head symbolises his connection to the divine, the godhead. In the Tarot context at least it really means the Beyond, the universe beyond human understanding, and in both those cards the figure draws down energy from the infinite for their own purpose. It's traditionally golden to represent the best of us, as in alchemy.

Also note that the Mobius strip is a three dimensional representation of the lemniscate (and has some weird properties..) but they both denote 'beyond counting'.
For magical purposes you could use it for loads of things, but it would be best IMO to have it represent the beyond, the divine, that-which-is-beyond-understanding. Let us know how it goes!

XXII:X:II = XXX

19:21 / 20.04.04

A possible alternative is a symbol taken from the original Star Trek, that representing the Vulcan Science Academy, and summarized as IDIC (Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations). The symbol itself looks like a triangle inside a crescent moon, tilted maybe 20 degrees to the right, and a circle where the triangle's peak and the two points of the crescent meet. Come to think of it, the whole concept sounds a lot like the Moorish Science Temple, down to a vaguely Muslim symbol. Something to look into. Here it is:

Here's what tvacres.com says about it:

IDIC - The IDIC is an ornamental piece of jewelry worn either in pin or pendant form by Vulcan First Officer Spock (Leonard Nimoy) on the sci-fi series STAR TREK/NBC/1966-69. The IDIC is the most revered Vulcan symbol, (combining variations in texture, shape and color) representing the Planet Vulcan's philosophy "Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations" that embraced the tolerance of all peoples and ideas to help create a society that is greater than the sum of its own parts. The IDIC symbol is a circle and triangle of white and yellow gold metals resting upon each other and adorned with a white jewel. The Star Trek Enclyclopedia [ISBN 0-671-86905-1]explains the IDIC as "Acronym for Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations, a cornerstone of the Vulcan philosophy. Spock wore an IDIC medallion to the shipboard dinner in honor of Dr. Jones. ( episode "Is There in Truth no Beauty?"). TRIVIA NOTE: The triangle-circle IDIC pendant in this episode was designed by Gene Roddenberry, the creator of the Star Trek empire.

Yes, I'm a biiiiig geek. At least I've never worn a Starfleet uniform.

VJB2

19:27 / 20.04.04

Very interesting synchronicity here - I was just looking at some old comic books I wrote and drew back in high school - I created a character called "Infinity Man". (and yes, I learned years later that DC - I think - had a character by that name already) What's interesting is I rarely look back on this comic work I did, and I even more rarely think about Infinity Man specifically. Two days after I look over the comic, I find this thread.

Magic in action.

19:35 / 20.04.04

I used the infinity symbol alot about a year ago, in fact the lemniscate often got used on my circles that I would cast, marking the circumferance of the circle, great for shrinking down the known universe into a fourteen foot diameter circle, I would also use it in sigils, but I don't have any examples, most of my sigils get burned, sorry. To me it is kind of the symbol of the universe, because all things are infinite.