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Underground > Laboratory >

Why Necrophilia?

17:11 / 18.04.04

Don't know if this is the exact right forum for it. If it's not, someone kindly redirect this or whatever.

But anyway. I'm researching necrophilia for a story idea, and I was curious if anyone has any knowledge of the "appeal," as it were, of it. Like, having read psychological studies on the subject, or hell, even your own experiences if you got 'em.

The obvious thought, of course, is that it stems from a preoccupation with death, but does it go deeper than that? A very dramatic rejection of society? Are there magickal implications as well?

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

18:04 / 18.04.04

Why do people fetishise anything? Necrophile attractions - in common with other paraphilic sexual fetishes - tend to manifest at an early age. There's very little research to shed light on how much is Nature and how much Nurture. It seems likely that some individuals (most usually males) are born with an increased tendency to fetishise - but the exact nature of their fetish depends on childhood experience.

18:33 / 18.04.04

To answer your first question, I don't know whether this is the right place for this discussion or not. My immediate instinct would be that it belonged in the Laboratory along with most other threads about health, mental health or the more (er) practical aspects of physical intimacy - but I'm aware that we often have conversations on sexuality-related issues in the Head Shop. Certainly I'm slightly unsettled by the idea that the Head Shop is the place for discussing absolutely anything to do with sex - in all its common and less-conventional forms. And certainly on occasion it does seem like that's all that people want to talk about in here. Could we try and find a distinction somewhere? Perhaps between identity politics and sexual practice/health? And having made that practice could we try and enforce it a bit more?

ONLY NICE THINGS

18:54 / 18.04.04

I don't think there *is* such an easy distinction to be made, Tom. In general, I tend to think that the forum an enquiry is posted in will probably have as great an impact on the subsequent discussion than the form of the enquiry itself.

In this case, I dfon't think John Octave really knows whast exactly he wants to discuss - social factors, sexual pathology or magical implications. In essence, this thread is a request to save him some research time, so I suggest he tells us what he wants to know and we shufle the thread accordingly.

19:27 / 18.04.04

Yeah that sounds reasonable. Dear thread-starter - what kind of perspective do you want on the conversation that follows. Are you looking for scientific work on the motivations of necrophiliacs, political or theoretical stuff about necrophiliac identity, novels/films/comics/music with necrophilia as a theme? Let us know and we'll file the thread accordingly.

20:17 / 18.04.04

Ah, sorry for any confusion.

I suppose the main problem is that I'm not quite sure myself where to *begin* researching this (whether as fetish, or psychological condition, or social phenomenon). But I suppose for the purposes of trying to narrow it down a bit, I'd like to examine it from the psychological perspective. Would that, then, be more appropriate in Laboratory?

Just trying to get a basic sense of where a good "entry point" might be for exploring the topic before researching on my own.

ONLY NICE THINGS

20:49 / 18.04.04

The Lab sounds like a good starting place - I will boot it over. Good luck in your researches - do pop back to the HS if you need some specialised info.

11:18 / 19.04.04

I'm not sure that necrophiles are necessarily precoccupied with death. If they're anything like other fetishists, they're an extremely heterogeneous group, with a variety of motivations. Some, I expect, have eroticised the concept of death, but some might equally fixate upon this or that funerary tradition, or the sensory aspects (fucking/lying with somethat that's cold, pale, blah blah), or the idea of the ultimate in passivity from a sexual partner.

I'd imagine that some necrophiles, like some paedophiles or bestialists, are fundamentally inadequate people who do what they do because they're incapable of interacting with consenting adults.

Necrophilia as a condition arising suddenly would be pretty rare, but possible - a frontal lobe, say, disinhibiting someone sufficiently to act on more latent fantasies...

11:33 / 19.04.04

Perhaps there is some sensual idea of being "the last", just like there is in being the first person to have sex with a virgin. Perhaps this desire also holds true for people who want to 'snuff' their partners - to be the last person, there as they crossover from life in to death might be one hell of a power trip for some people.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

10:56 / 24.04.04

Isn't there the desire to control the partner? A dead man don't tell no tales, and won't refuse whatever you want to do with him? Is there any known overlap between necrophiliacs and people that fetishise sex with dolls and robots?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

12:09 / 24.04.04

Dennis Nilsen claimed that one of his earliest memories was, as Brian Masters puts it: "when he may have walked into the sea, aged about eight, and was apparently rescued by an older boy who was then aroused by his prostrate body". Masters' basic take on Nilsen was that, although he never fucked the corpses of his victims, he held them close, slept with them (literally) etc, because he didn't want to be alone, and lacking personality, a corpse was the only person who wasn't likely to leave on him. Of course, Masters is VERY subjective, and got most of this from Nilsen himself, who's constantly trying to paint himself in the most pitiable light possible (not that I think he doesn't deserve pity; rather, his motives for what he says should be taken into account.)

Someone you might want to check out is Leilah Wendell (I think), or Karen Greenlee... both (if I've remembered the right names and spellings) self-confessed necrophiliacs who have no problem with discussing their own motives. I know there's an interview with Greenlee in the first "Apocalypse Culture" book... an issue of the zine "Towards 2012" was supposed to feature Wendell... can't remember if the article ever found a home, because the editor (a friend of mine) found himself turned away from various printers because of said article.

I'm always kind of wary of "one size fits all" definitions of pathologies... it seems to be the danger of serial killer profiling. Just because this behaviour is MOST COMMON in person type A), doesn't mean it may not manifest in person type B).

Thinking of Flowers' point- the helplessness seems like quite a likely facet- Dahmer experimented with trepanation in an attempt to keep people, without killing them, as subservient, personality-less sexual receptacles. Or so seems to be the general consensus. Again, they can't leave.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

12:15 / 24.04.04

Okay, just googled.

Wendell seems more "outsider art" (or "dodgy goth") than genuine necrophile...

I think this Greenlee interview is the same as the one in Apocalypse Culture. (pub- Feral House, ed. Adam Parfrey)

21:25 / 25.04.04

I think 'dodgy Goth' is probably as much "genuine necrophile" as Nilsen, just not so far along the spectrum. One of the problems with studying necrophilia - as with studying paedophilia - is that a lot of the data has come from those convicted of offences, and often imprisoned. That's a little like trying to understand heterosexuality by talking only to convicted rapists. It's likely that there's a whole spectrum of 'lesser' necrophilia that goes undiscovered.

13:22 / 26.04.04

There's a movie called "Kissed" that portrays the experience as a beautiful wonderful spiritual thing. Its a fabulous film, makes you feel all warm and happy about the subject.

17:51 / 26.04.04

Thanks for all the replies. I think I got somewhere to start now (that Greenlee article is particularly interesting, thanks for Googling that). But if anyone else has anything particularly insightful, I'd still be interested.

My friend wants to collaborate on a story with me and one of the characters is a necrophile, and basically while writing motivations, I didn't want to be just talking out of my ass. I think I've got a good starting point. That notion of being "the last one" is interesting too.

18:43 / 07.05.04

if i rememeber correctly the book Users guide to the Millenium which was edited by JG Ballard had an interview with some famous necrophiliac - sorry can't remember her name