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Underground > Temple >

Al queda wizards.

Gnostics Salvation

00:26 / 15.04.04

Is the reason al queda remained so elusive is there spellcasting skills?

00:30 / 15.04.04

no.

00:31 / 15.04.04

yes.

00:31 / 15.04.04

well, thast the minimalist discussion of al quaeda's magickal prowess complete, can we lock the thread?

put another way...
what makes you think that, other than an overactive imgination?

Shanghai Quasar

01:28 / 15.04.04

Lock the thread? Oh, come on. They had a discussion just a while back about Bush using magic, so why not one about bin Laden doing the same?

As far as Al Qaeda using magic to remain elusive, I would suggest that they aren't as elusive as you'd think AND I can't imagine that hardline Islamists would use magic. After all, they have Allah on their side; they don't need magic.

02:44 / 15.04.04

Having Allah on your side qualifies as pretty big hexmojo in my book. Helps of course if you compliment with a generally unshakeable faith and persistent uses of media based visualization to some significant religious population...

That said, I don't think Bin Laden or his crew are consciously using magick, and hence, cannot be said to be willworkers any more than your grocer, say, or Ted Turner.

But if he was using magick consciously, it would be the sacred tomes plundered from the ancient library of the Old Man in the Mountain when his fortress fell, and returned to haunt the infidel with wicked-awesome sand-devils. Definitely.

Shanghai Quasar

06:04 / 15.04.04

Now that I consider it more carefully, they don't believe they have Allah on THEIR side. They have concluded that they are on Allah's side, which is a fundamental difference in the way things are considered.

As far as the Hashshashin theory, that sounds like a mighty fine idea for a story.

06:52 / 15.04.04

As far as the Hashshashin theory, that sounds like a mighty fine idea for a story.

Yeah, 'cept now that I posted it I have to dread someone beating me to the punch.

Nietzsch E. Coyote

21:12 / 15.04.04

9/11 and now 3/11?
They are doing some kind of numeralogical manipulation.

12:17 / 16.04.04

(1) of course 9/11 was a big fat motherfucker of a ritual. it also was being read that way.
(2) al q has every fucked up person in the arabic world on its side. why? - not because they are all believing in the '40-virgins'-bullshit. not because they want to kill the 'american devil'. it is simple - if i were for example a palestine fugitive and had got NO perspectives, and a bunch of family members killed by american or israelian soldiers, i think i could not care less for allah. i would die fast and 'give it back to them' rather than die slowly. so much about 'being exclusive'

this is not to say they are 'right'. why? - because every 'we-against-them' worldview is bullshit.
and it is magic: mind-programming towards self-fulfilling prophecies.

peace

19:35 / 16.04.04

Lock the thread? Oh, come on. They had a discussion just a while back about Bush using magic, so why not one about bin Laden doing the same?

sorry.
either you need to learn to laugh, or i need to learn not to try and make you.
i was referring to the (of course in my HUMBLE opinion) inadequate level of detail in the first post.

Shanghai Quasar

10:01 / 18.04.04

I can laugh. Just lemme have a drink here and I'll laugh so hard you'll be blown down!

As to the madhatter, how is it 'bullshit' to think in an us-versus-them mentality? That's how Ego works. You push out everything that isn't Self and it all becomes Not-Self.

To put it another way, calling us-versus-them mentality 'bullshit' is just another us-versus-them conflict.

And I still don't think Osama has secret beard powers.

15:54 / 18.04.04

But djinn and efreeti on the battlefield would be so cool, especially if they went up against the robot tanks and battlesuits that are in development.

19:39 / 18.04.04

Sorry to butt on on this one. I'm not qualified to comment on this thread, to be honest, except to say that clearly there was an enormous symbolic impact in striking the twin towers with planes that has had a resonance and effect far beyond the tragic deaths of the few thousand odd people who were working there. That sounds to a layperson to be enormously similar to a magickal undertaking as I understand it. Having said that I'm not at all convinced by the idea of dedicated Al Qaeda 'magicians' consciously undertaking workings in the way that I think the first person was trying to articulate it and I personally feel that articulating it in that way probably rather trivialises the event, the grotesque tactics of the organisation and the enormous weight and power of Islamic fundamentalism that they're using to fuel such symbolic actions. Having said that, there definitely seems to be something powerful going on here that I think intersects between my very non-magickal worldview and the limited understanding that I have of magickal practice.

Finaly, and on an unrelated note - much like toksik, I tend to think that people posting on the board should be expected to be able to put together a slightly more cogent and intelligently presented first post than that one if they're planning on getting any kind of serious response from the rest of the board. Explaining your thinking, drawing in some support from sources and trying to frame some cogent lines of questioning, argument or inquiry seem to me to be just as necessary in this forum as everywhere else on the site.

21:17 / 19.04.04

But djinn and efreeti on the battlefield would be so cool, especially if they went up against the robot tanks and battlesuits that are in development.

Keep it down you fool! "The Alamo" "Pearl Harbor" "Black Hawk Down" "Independence Day" and "Reign of Fire" were bad enough...god forbid some Tinseltown hack should be lurking in here...

*sine flicks eyes back-and-forth paranoically, lowers blinds*

21:47 / 19.04.04

Having said that I'm not at all convinced by the idea of dedicated Al Qaeda 'magicians' consciously undertaking workings in the way that I think the first person was trying to articulate it and I personally feel that articulating it in that way probably rather trivialises the event, the grotesque tactics of the organisation and the enormous weight and power of Islamic fundamentalism that they're using to fuel such symbolic actions.

You know Tom, I don't disagree with you, indeed, I agree with most of your points (I don't buy Beard-power either) but I can't help but notice your post really highlights a fascinating phenomenon: the use of the word "trivialises". Almost invariably when something tragic happens, any reference to it that attributes cause, motivation, or means to something outside of consensus reality is "trivialising" the issue. Either we frame the event in mundane terms or not at all...to do otherwise is an insult to the grieving. It's a weird form of unassailable reality-censorship I've never been entirely comfortable with.

Just an observation I guess...not targeted at you, or your post particularly, you just happened to trigger the rant.

22:21 / 19.04.04

Almost invariably when something tragic happens, any reference to it that attributes cause, motivation, or means to something outside of consensus reality is "trivialising" the issue.

Not meaning to direct this at Tom either but that's a really good point there sine. Especially with conspiracy theories. Also 'pie in the sky' etc, it's a quick and easy way to lump a load of stuff together and dismiss it on a lot of occasions. It's worrying when there's a very good chance of these things happening aswell that's backed up with heaps of evidence that never gets seen by the public due to media control of the situation/event/story.

However if the words 'Magicks' was taken away and 'Preists' or 'Kabbalists' or something was put there instead, i'm guessing that a big amount of people would take a very different perspective of it, and when it comes down to it, a Preist and a Magician are often doing the very same type of thing and drawing from the same source.

Maybe something to do with the media fed versions of Witches and Wizards etc on society as a whole. (especially western society, some cultures are exposed to a lot more realistic perception of what Magick/Voodoo/Shamanism etc are from childhood, more so in places where a dogmatic, organized religion isn't the main spiritual power.)

23:44 / 19.04.04

Tom wrote:
Sorry to butt on on this one.

God speaks to His creation! Cheers, Tom. Nice to know you're paying attention to us aetheric blighters in the Barb Ghetto.

Sine wrote:
But if he was using magick consciously, it would be the sacred tomes plundered from the ancient library of the Old Man in the Mountain when his fortress fell, and returned to haunt the infidel with wicked-awesome sand-devils. Definitely.

Yeah, I've often thought of Bin Laden as sort of a modern Hassan-I-Sabbah hidden in the Afghan hills with his cadre of devoted assassin's. His shtick seems to be lacking in any real depth though, and more motivated by zeal and hatred. At least Hassan had some style and finesse. And lot's of good hashish, not that crappy Afghan tar. If Condi was actually a Bin Laden plant who, upon hearing the secret code in the latest Al Qaeda teletype, decapitated W in a press conference before taking her own life, then Osama could rightly lay claim to the Old Man's heritage. Otherwise, he's just a highly motivated Islamic Rajneesh or Jim Jones.

01:37 / 20.04.04

Almost invariably when something tragic happens, any reference to it that attributes cause, motivation, or means to something outside of consensus reality is "trivialising" the issue. Either we frame the event in mundane terms or not at all

yeah.
strikes me as a facet of a secular democracy.
if i was grieving, and you tried to comfort me by preaching the gospel, i would be pissed. its not about magick being ghettoised, its about keeping your gods to yourself.

see here for a demonstration of the kind of offense it can cause.

so.
your guessing some of the folks involved might have some kinda connection to occult wierdness, or your numerological demonstration of why the WTC just had to go down on the 11th and not any other day is not likely to be welcomed by those who would only see you using a tragedy to further your own beliefs.

i *would* say trivialise is perhaps the wrong word.

01:54 / 20.04.04

Hmm...you may be right. In fact, it may have given me an idea for another thread. Thanks....

Our Lady Has Left the Building

16:20 / 22.04.04

I suppose there's no point pointing out that Tom wasn't saying that discussing the subject is trivialising the Sept. 11th tragedy, just the way the threadstarter broached it?

No, probably not...

03:30 / 23.04.04

no, say away.

wait... you already did, didnt you?
you sneaky thing you...

08:23 / 23.04.04

I personally knew somebody who was in the Afghanni hills with the Mujaheddin at the time of the late Civil War - he shared chillums with them when they were shelling Russian airplanes - mad one. In a sick way the Americans even absorbed Bin Laden into a pisstake hardcore porn film set in his cavernous hideaway! As the great Phil K Dick said -"The Empire Never Ended!" - I'll rephrase it to - "The Crusades Never Ended!"

Our Lady Has Left the Building

08:39 / 23.04.04

To try and drag something useful out of this, would there be some way to reclaim the energy that must be created at times like this, even if there's no magical intent on the part of those who do it, and channel it to positive purposes? Bullets into flowerpetals, or do you need to know that such an event is about to happen and prepare in advance?

09:56 / 24.04.04

To try and drag something useful out of this, would there be some way to reclaim the energy that must be created at times like this, even if there's no magical intent on the part of those who do it, and channel it to positive purposes? Bullets into flowerpetals, or do you need to know that such an event is about to happen and prepare in advance?

Check out the ideas that accumulated around the Transducer/ Peace Mango material (a convenient link can be located in my Egretronics thread *shill* *shill* )...a servitor that autonomously feeds off of negative situations and excretes positive energy.