Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Temple >

Meditation 101

i

13:45 / 14.04.04

A friend of mine has been practising Sant Mat meditation for some time now and claims to reach states which seem highly unlikely (at least to me as a generally unspiritual type) by meditation alone - auditory and visual experience which he describes as 'as real as I see you now'. I have quizzed him on the exact meditational method but he's very reluctant to give anything up, frowned upon as it is by other group members, execpt that it is mantra based. What is going on here? Are we talking about being able to induce hallucinatory states by just sitting down in your front room and deciding to trip your tits off? Some kind of lucid dreaming? Any experiences? Actual info on meditation techniques that produce similar results?

13:56 / 14.04.04

I think it's possible to acheive any state with meditation, it just takes practice.

I've had the lucid state a few times but i couldn't hold it so i know it's possible, i've also got to a state where i could no longer feel my body a couple of times. If i practised more i'd probably be able to tell you about trippy states but i haven't been doing much med lately so i can't. I have felt bliss once though, it was like it rose up from my legs and stomach area and covered most of my body, it was a bit overwhelming.

I'd say yes, without a doubt.

i

14:01 / 14.04.04

Thanks, I guess what I'm really after is the mechanics of this type of profound meditation. Just quiet and introspection or mantras or what? I appreciate that this sounds naive but any info. appreciated.

14:30 / 14.04.04

If i'm right it can be done both ways, i don't have any links though because i just try it my own way, which is either shape/tattva, void, rising on the planes or deliberately flooding the mind with as many shapes, colours and fractals as i can imagine, which can induce trippy effects if it's done enough times so as to hone the technique to your requirements.

I did go through a phase of reading Buddhist sutra's and that helped me a lot, but it doesn't have any info on trippy or lucid or anything........if i find any links i'll post back here.

I'd say mantra's will get you results faster if your looking to try it for yourself, but what type, again i don't know.

Someone else should be able to help with this but if not i'll try and find some stuff and post back.

14:32 / 14.04.04

I'd be very skeptical myself, especially if he won't reveal his techniques. Just 'cos someone says something doesn't mean it's true, though if he's a mate of yours, I suppose the temptation is to give him a pass if he's genrally reliable. Perhaps he's just enthusiastic and is exaggerating?

I have some experience with astral projection, which might be what your friend is talking about. In this kind of practice, while you can since convincing symbolic landsacpes which will respond to you and throw up insights and encounters, my experience was that it isn't a substitute for real vision. Who knows though?

My main source for the effects of meditation was Crowely for a while, if you want to see some intresting accounts of the meditational states, check out his 8 Lectures on yoga. Though the practice he recommends is a) hard work and b) very boring.

14:34 / 14.04.04

Just one more thing : the word 'meditation' can be misleading and can lead you to think that it's always a quiet, serene affair, but anything can be going on in the mind of the person meditating that can lead to endless combinations of effects/feelings/experiences.

i

14:45 / 14.04.04

More astral projection techniques would be interesting.

16:06 / 14.04.04

I have had visionary experiences with yoga, actually. Pain stimulus from pushing my body processed through prana breathing and focus to keep the body open so I don't actually tear anything, slipping into distinctly altered states of mind where I have had visions appear before my eyes. Oh yes, its very possible. You push it hard enough, and stuff will happen.

18:06 / 14.04.04

A method I've been experimenting with is to visualize myself in different locations that I know very well, i.e. in my bed in my old room, at my computer desk, on the couch. Eventually, your mind sorta loses track of where you are. With a little practice and a clear idea of what to do while your mind is lost, fun results could be had. Stumbled into this technique while falling asleep during lectures... I've also managed a similar process with time and dates, but I'm easily confused on those anyway.

22:41 / 14.04.04

Something I've been toying with, it to go against the ideas of what meditation is - eg sitting in a position, clearing the mind - and I lay on my bed with bright lights and musc playing, and imagine being a single part of that music, question whether or not the music would be the same without me being part of it, or whether the music is only there because I choose to hear it, and withing minutes I get very interesting effects. Always come out of it seeing the world glow for a few moments (on one occasion my feet were glowing for several minutes after) and imagining that the world is a sunnier place.

00:40 / 15.04.04

the practice he recommends is a) hard work and b) very boring.

what would you recommend that is not?
most of the techniques i have seen required large amounts of work and boredom.
sorta like learning to punch quickly and powerfully... the technique takes seconds to relate, but its practising the action over and over again that makes it a useful tool.

00:43 / 15.04.04

Stumbled into this technique while falling asleep during lectures...

wow!
i love that feeling, and had never thought of trying to force it to replicate on cue... any tips?
its that waking up surprised at where you are feeling that lets me know its happened... i assume that this feeling is lessened when the 'sleep' is intentional?

The Tower Always Falls

04:45 / 15.04.04

PLENTY of threads here to choose from.

This one.

Useful Techniques for a Well Rounded Sorceror

I always liked this one for guided meditation.

12:56 / 15.04.04

well, there's a technique, which is very simple, but effektive. Just sit down and free yourself of every disturbing influence like thougts, being curious, doubts etc. ... just be at the center of yourself.
Then focus an idea, which really moves you, an idea that produces cool showers. It should be great, fantastic ... to make it short ... moving. Keep it focused and let one shower after the other run your back down.
After ca. 10 to 15 min. You should have your experience.

17:31 / 15.04.04

toksik: It is alot easier tired or really bored. However, it is easier to force your mind into doing something with this state when it's entered intentionally.

asuna: Just sit down and free yourself of...
Good advice, if only it were as simple as you make it sound.

19:12 / 15.04.04

I mostly try to still the mind y'know NoMind, or just do like visualised/guided meditations. I agree sometimes it can seem like a pain in the ass, but I'm sure perseverance is the key. Don't know bout auditory experiences I've had many visual experiences on the inner planes. Each to their own I guess. Everyone perceives realities as different. I've borrowed from Yoga, Liber Null, Zen, Kundalini/Eastern ideas, etc... I think some music helps sometimes. It's upto people how they gain gnosis really.

06:22 / 16.04.04

I would very much say yes. I had alot of background in meditation when I was younger, so when I got into chaos magick, I found it easier to enter gnosis through meditation than many other methods. Sometimes when I'm practicing stilling the mind I work on creating what are essentially hallucinations I suppose. Some might give them the actual quality of reality, and to be honest, I do that myself, but that for me is a simple imposition of belief. As a result, I'm always sure to dissolve or ground them when I'm done. I've found this sort of practice comes in very handy in terms of servitor creation, and also sigil creation as well. There have also been times when I've done workings in meditative states. Basically, I go into a state of mental stillness with the intent to do something, and allow the working to define itself. I'm particularly fond of doing banishings in meditational states in that way, so I would have to say yes. There are an enormous scope of magickal activities that can be carried out in meditational states, and there are an enormous number of different mental states that could be called meditative.

11:50 / 16.04.04

I havent been able to meditate properly for a while now, due to the fact that I'm possesed by a girl who basicly said that I mean NOTHING to her, it was the way she said it, you know what I mean. She's everywhere I look and when I close my eyes I see her smiling back at me. I'm meditating for peace of mind and general down to earth coolness, trouble is meditating on nothing, where she seems to be, and the fact that I am concious of this doesnt help any. Its not like I'm obsesed with her, more like she doesnt want me to let go. Like a little heart shaped box I've only recently escaped, I'm settling down a bit feeling if this has helped change my inner Wa'.

Has anyone else had problems like this? Unwanted distractions?

15:50 / 16.04.04

Really, the trick is not to meditate on nothing, but to simply focus on your breath. When you find yourself thinking about other things, like obsessions on certain females, cath yourself and return to focusing on your breath. Its ultimately a simple exercise, you just keep doing that until you get better at not distracting yourself.

16:15 / 16.04.04

Trouble is when I focus on my breath it goes deep, like when I'm making love. Its entoxicating. And its mad because theres knowone there. I guess I just need to be more detirmined. Stop falling in to it.

17:29 / 16.04.04

Akira, its supposed to do that

Just relax and enjoy the feeling of it. That's the point. Isn't the body a fun toy?

The Prince of All Lies

22:04 / 16.04.04

Akira, if you feel as if you're falling asleep, that's OK. In my experience, meditation takes me to a kind of trance that's very similar to a lucid dream, only with a higher degree of consciousness. Sometimes it takes a long time, I still don't have complete control over it, but if you keep practising, you'll get the hang of it. Don'y freak out when you are getting into a trance, just try not to think about it, since that will take you back to the start, just keep focusing on breathing and let the trance wash over you. Once you're in that state you can perceive a lot of things, in my case, I see weird things/entities in my mind's eye, maybe you'll hear voices. Just relax, it's quite a trip..

23:25 / 16.04.04

I've been hearing voices, more like whispers and seeing little blots of coloured lights since Nov 2002. The lights are funny because I 'defined' them acording to what ever I'm thinking in my head acording to weather its to true or not. Dont know what says for the nature of mind but there you go. Hard to explain, erm, basicly I somehow controled them so clear blue it correct and red is wrong, like there a spectrum going on there with 'not sure' in the middle. Theres a sort of black white background going on there too. Its realy frustrating, sometime ( not oftern maybe 3 times) I see them uniformed all around my head, or minds eye insted of just one. Its like Im comunicating with an entity that knows or can see the future. I know its bullshit, I knew that when it started, I dont beleive it. Basicly I've got this fucking narrarative going on in me head that I dont want. Fuck knows how I stay sane. Has anyone encounterd this before, and how do I get rid of it? Banashing ritual?

23:29 / 16.04.04

'Before thought', is the best way to describe it. Like I'm constanly chasing me fucking tail.

02:11 / 17.04.04

When I was a child my parents were into transcendental meditation. At the age of 4 they took me to a meeting where this yogi guy gave me a "secret word of wisdom" - basically a mantra to repeat. You are never supposed to reveal this word (which may account for i's friend's secrecy) to anyone, and basically repeat it as you meditate. My twin sister forrgot hers selveral times over the years, and tthere was some number my parents had her call to have some one remind her. But how did they know what it was? As a child I was amazed and mystifieed, as if they had a giant book fulll of everybody's name and mantra - years later I found out everybody born in the same year has the same mantra.

As for the meditation itself, I have done it off and on through the years, often using it as a way to fall asleep. There have however been a few times where I felt as though my head had opened up and I was in an enormous room (not unlike the lucid dream state between sleeping and waking), but usually at that point I would get so amazed that I would wake up despite trying to hold myself in that state. Or else I would fall asleep.

Recently I read an article suggesting, as cusm did above, that you concentrate on your breathing - repeating "I am breathing in" as you breathe in and then "I am breathing out" as you exhale, and I found that so much easier to focus on for periods of time than a nonsense mantra. If you can just keep focusing on your breath, I think it's quite possible to get results.

20:29 / 17.04.04

Next time around I'll take more care to focus on my breath and not just go deep, to see what happens. There's alot of stuff on breathwork on the web, and there's an article about Holotropic Breathwork by Grof that I got off the net, that I should pay more attention to.

17:26 / 18.04.04

I've found a good way to get into reaching trance/relaxed states it to repeat mantras to yourself. At first say, "My arms are relaxing" in your head, over and over again, until eventually your arms sort of fall asleep, and then do your legs and eventually you fall into the relaxed state. Eventually, you'll reach the point where you don't need that, and you can just focus on your breathing and get into the state.

I've never had any hallucinations myself, just really relaxed feelings. When, I've got a lot of stress for whatever reason, I do some meditation and it just goes away. However, my friend used the same technique, and he said he saw flashing lights, and things moving, he's usually pretty reliable, so I don't think he'd make it up. I once meditated with him, and he was completely out, I was waving my hand in front of his face, and he didn't respond at all, and when he came back, his hand was ice cold. So, meditation can definitely take you to some interesting places.

18:49 / 18.04.04

What Patrick MM said sounds most like self-hypnotism, I do this sometimes for my back - usually in the corpse asana - it does relax. I think if you're prone to alot of mad visuals and don't want it - perhaps do a banishing rite before hands. That's if you wanna get rid off alot of the inner dialogue if you want to calm the water as they say.

rising and revolving

05:14 / 19.04.04

gergsnickle : Thanks for solving one of my memory mysteries. I don't have very solid memories of anything before the age of six or so, but I do know I was given a mantra at some point. My mothers then-boyfriend (who I've not seen in over 20 years) took me to see a man who gave me my 'secret word' - I've wondered across the years exactly who he was and where he was from - now I know. Cheers.

06:44 / 20.04.04

dudes. newboy here so hi, can I play?

Sant Mat AFAIK uses mantra to start with and then following initiation there is a 'light and sound' meditation - aka shabd or shabda yoga 'the yoga of the sound current'. Sometimes you'll see pictures of yogis leaning on a T-shaped piece of wood. This is used to support the arms while the yogi performs the light (squeeze the outer edges of the eyeballs with the thumb and 3rd finger of the right hand) and sound (thumbs in ears) techniques. Sometimes they'll do both at the same time using both hands - not sure of finger placement.

There are loasd of similar approaches - Divine Light for one.

In my experience with one of the identikit approaches I never got the psychedelics, but I knew people who reckoned they were off among the buddhas, or across the galaxy - probably they would have got that whatever technique they applied.

Rich

Oh, and PS the reason that the TM techers know what mantra to give is that there are only about eight of them, given (I think) according to age.

07:57 / 21.04.04

I find jsut relaxing help, or focussing on something peaceful, that can be what ever you like. I think of my dog sleeping!