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Units of Information (Pre-Noise Format)

19:07 / 13.04.04

I have been prompted to create this thread by the apparent popularity or curiosity as to the contents of the Voudun Gnostic Workbook by Michael Bertiaux. What other tomes of information out there do you wish you could get your grubby little hands on if money or out-of-print demand was not an obstacle?

Does more power/value reside in these tomes because they have retained a state of information (as opposed to noise) in comparison to other tomes? because of the independent message communicated? or a little bit of both?

Other thoughts?

13:16 / 14.04.04

I agree with you as far as noise goes. I think, too, that with the increased amount of popularity in the mystical arts, modern magic has become cheapened in many ways. Its the same thing with alcohol, piercings and staying up past your bed time. As long as its a taboo, its exciting.

Yes, I know this message could be offensive to certain people. Indeed I made a sweeping generalization, however for alot of people out there (including myself), mystical texts published after about 1960 don't interest me. Perhaps its mostly subjective, but a big part of me looks at a modern book and becomes nauseated.

I feel like an old man ranting about the way things have changed...walking uphill both ways, etc.

13:31 / 14.04.04

Almost loath to mention them because he comes up so frequently, but Kenneth Grant's stuff is like this - the artwork, covers and plates by Steffi Grant and others are an intrinsic part of the work. Can't imagine "Nightside of Eden" in paperback either. Andrew Chumbley's tomes are the only other one's I can think of off the top of my head. Spare's work as well carries a big graphic kick.

Nietzsch E. Coyote

22:55 / 14.04.04

I really want Phil Hines's Pseudonomicon.

02:24 / 15.04.04

I stumbled upon a book called "The American Book of the Dead" at my local shop. I don't know how rare or how valid it is, but perhaps I'll give a short review once I purchase it.
As to the infatuation with magick of late, I think that it has the same appeal right now as that of the hoola-hoop, or more recently, devil sticks. Sure, its great with the masses right now, but eventually only the die-hards will be left.

trouser the trouserian

04:52 / 15.04.04

Does more power/value reside in these tomes because they have retained a state of information (as opposed to noise) in comparison to other tomes? because of the independent message communicated? or a little bit of both?

That's a good question, but highly subjective. In the case of the VGW, I think part of its allure or glamour (round here anyhow) is that Grant Morrison mentioned it as one of his favourite occult books, and I'd guess that people read the Invisibles, see how Grant's portrayed Vououn, then get all interested in the VGW. So it acquires a mythic status based on inference and speculation, rather than actual content. There's also a "hey this book is really incomprehensible - so it must be good" factor, at least in the case of the VGW. Which kinda shows up the limitations of the information v noise approach, at least in regard to occult texts. Someone on the VGW discussion thread queried whether it was a structured workbook type-of-thing, and those of us who were more familiar had a good laugh at that, as it's anything but. You might say it has an extremely high 'noise' ratio, but at least it's 'interesting-sounding' noise.

22:11 / 15.04.04

Don't know the book so forgive me if this is a bit OT.

I clearly remember years ago being lent a wee (A6 format?) hardback book called 'Occult Exercises' by Gareth Knight. It was well-thumbed and I had an instantaneous feeling I would never find it in a shop (this was the late 80s - now "Gareth Knight" returns over 6000 hits on google). It was full of things like visualisation exercises, psychic-defence 'spells' and other stuff which just blew the top of my head off - so much more pragmatic than any of that Liber Al crap (as I saw it) or whatever.

I suppose the explosion of New Ageism, chaos, Modern Primitivism has all happened since then and he doesn't seem very rock'n'roll anymore but it seemed pretty wild at the time...

There's not only a greater amount of noise now but probably a higher signal too - the ratio is maybe similar but the level of commoditisation of these ideas (to use a pretty uselessly vague term) is just *so much* higher.

Undoubtedly some of the perceived value was its exclusivity back then, whether I would have admitted it or not.