BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Underground > Temple >

The morality of doing rituals with non-magicians

  
 
Z. deScathach
22:32 / 12.04.04
I had done a previous thread along the lines of doing a magickal ritual for some UU's, who were interested in experiencing magick. They expressed interest and I offered. These are individuals who are entering with full consent, (at least in my opinion). It became quickly apparent that there is quite a bit of controversy over this. As a result of the ensuing threadrot, I decided to start a thread on the morality of that practice. The reason that I say morality, is that many of the objections brought up were of a moral nature. It was mentioned that "religious lore" found such a practice to be heretical. Also brought up was the issue of consent. Sounds like morality to me. Also brought up what the possibility of unintended effects in ritual, (in my opinion, a technical issue). I'll start by giving my opinion, and then kick it out for all of you.

To me the moral issue of such a "doing" is primarily the issue of consent. Do people know what may happen? Do they understand that magick can have strange and unintended effects. IMO, it is important to not sugar-coat the issue with participants. They should be told that there is an inherent element of risk in such a ritual. That having been said, being a proponent of freedom of choice, I do believe that if people wish to participate in such a ritual, they should be allowed to. Now of course the argument can be made that it is a moral wrong to do a working involving a non-mage. The question that I would put out is, if all individuals are coming in with full informed conent, why should they not be "allowed" to do that? Issues of "magickal secrecy" might be brought up, but to me, that is a boondoggle. Anyone can go into any bookstore, and for the price of a few dollars can get a whole book-full of occult "secrets". In the previous thread, "religious lore" was brought up. It's my opinion that this is a dangerous viewpoint, as there is a fair amount of religious lore that sees what we do as satanic, and that the world would be safer if we were all dead. Therefor, I would argue that issues of "heresy" also are not sufficient to prohibit said activity.

To me, this issue holds many of the same moral issues as sexual activity. Sexual activity can be dangerous, (disease, and unintended pregnancy), and can have unintended consequences, (bad relationship, anyone?).If all concerned in said ritual are of the age of informed consent, have recieved appropriate information, and proper safeguards are taken, (psychic comdoms?), there should be no problem with this. The issue could be brought up, "But these persons are magickal virgins!" Once more the sex analogy. Is everyone who has sex expected to have done it before? Well, maybe nowadays...... So, what are the reasons why A.People should be allowed to do this, or B. They should not be allowed to do this, or C. Why they should be allowed to do this,but dammit it's a real bad idea!
 
 
Char Aina
02:49 / 13.04.04
i want you to expand on your "heresy" comments.
are you saying that because these non-mage participants are (for example) christian that you should take this into account?
if their faith says no, but they say yes?
god having a right of consent over his flock?

or do you mean that in the canonical texts of your path it is heretical to allow outsiders to a ritual?
 
 
Char Aina
03:01 / 13.04.04
oh, and gut instinct says take em along for the ride.
as long as you are careful, i see no problem with sharing the fun.

hypothetically, if you were a parent, would you take your kids out horse riding? you'd make sure they were on a well behaved ride, and that they had already mastered basic safety, but you'd let them on, yeah?
sure, there may be a few broken bones, but as long as you give them a helmet and explain how to stop, or what to do if they cant, wouldnt the benefits be more important than the fear of accident?
 
 
Z. deScathach
13:15 / 13.04.04
Actually, a Barbelith member brought up the religous heresy thing. They mentioned that under some religious lore, such an act was considered heretical. As a result of that,as well as some other statements, it seemed to me that there were some moral objections, so I thought that it would make an interesting question to put forward in a separate thread. Certainly there are some that would and do have some serious objections to it. My personal belief is similar to yours, that I see no harm in doing so with the proper precautions. I think that one thing bears examination, and that is the fact that this will probably be occuring more often as the occult comes more "out of the closet". Non-magical persons have already been involved in non-magickal ceremonies. Involvement by non-poractitioners in actual magickal ritual is more rare, but will probably become more commmon as time goes on. There are clearly safety issues, however. Still, if those are addressed, I don't see the harm in it.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
20:27 / 01.02.05
About the religious lore. The non-magicians could belong to a religion that said not to eat Pork or you go to hell, for example, and part of the ritual might involve drinking pig's blood. So if they joined in with that without knowing it was pig's blood, in their own headspace, they are going to hell. So you should point this out. Just an example, and pretty obvious, but something you might forget in the heat of the moment.
 
  
Add Your Reply