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Need Advice about Ritual

  
 
Z. deScathach
08:50 / 10.04.04
A friend recently wrote to me about explaining magick to non-magicians, and I replied that I seldom did that, as it had a tendency to turn them white. I just realized that in May, I will be performing a ritual to basically give a group of non-magicians a magickal experience. This should turn them two shades of white. I'm performing the ritual with a neo-pagan, we have decided on the energy paradigm. I'll be the drive and she'll be the controller, i.e., I will channel the sigil, probably using a seidr trance, (better make sure to tell the doctor in the group about that ahead of time), she will act as a brake, to make sure things don't get out of hand. Sort of Yin to Yang. I intend to craft a sigil with the intent, "provide a magickal experience". The choice of being vague is deliberate. Their will be three tiers of involvment.

1. non-involvement. Sit off on the chairs, reserved for people too nervous or otherwise unwillling to participate.

2.semi-involvement.Sit in outer circle, "drink it in"

3. Direct involvement. Inner circle. Chant ? Sway? Dance? Any ideas?!

I suppose that my questions are thus:
I'm doing this for Unitarian Universalists, so some should be fairly receptive. There will be a bunch of Humanists there, however. Should I do anything to protect the "magickal field" from their skepticism? Also, how do you feel about the idea of keeping the sigil intent vague? I decided to keep it that way so it could follow multiple pathways, as well as having a better chance of manifesting. Of course magick can be weird and disconcerting, should the sigil be more specific? There is a very strong "non-harm" field in the place and amongst the people that I am doing it with, so I believe it should be safe. Any ideas as to how to get the inner circle heavly into the experience? Feel free to contradict me. Feel free to tell me that I'm nuts. I'm no stranger to ritual. This has me occasionally bolting upright from my sleep drenched in sweat,(just figuratively. If I REALLY bolted upright in my sleep, I would call it off). There is a complication. There's a spirit in the place. I discussed it with another person that has percieved it, we agree that it is some sort of guardian, probably set by the group that was in there previously. At any rate, people like the idea that it is there. I would prefer to do a banishing before the ritual, and had the idea of producing an astral tether for it. Anyone have any ideas? It does seem to hang around in the basement, so that doesn't seem to be totally necessary, still I don't want to inadvertantly kick it out.

What am I shooting for? Hell if I know. Oh sure, it would be great if there was some sort of physical manifestation, but that is why I am keeping it vague, in order to allow for multiple paths of development.
 
 
cusm
17:47 / 10.04.04
I think doing a ritual to "cause a magickal experience" is rather missing the point. The ritual is the magickal experience. The more you get people involved in it, the more they'll get out of it. Rather than just letting chaos into their lives and hoping some of them notice, take them by the hand and run them through something. Then, they'll immediately have something to take back from the experience.

Last summer I did some ritual for a group of ravers largely unskooled in magick, but there for the experience of it. That's pretty much what you're working with. We did a basic and stripped down version of a circle calling by getting them to sing a chant to the elements. Invocation of diety was scripted to explain clearly what was being called and sneak some ideas past them like The God as divinity of the self and The Goddess as divinity of the world the self is within, all done to get them into a magickal space of mind and connection with energies. Simple and clear, and the energy of the circle was amazing as we had their complete attention in a way that more experienced folks wouldn't for being too used to it all. Then we opened the gates and called the spirits of the ancestors (and any others along for the ride) to come party with us and hit the music, leaving the entire show as a part of the ceremony that wasn't closed until a brief circle in the morning, and watched the fun I can't tell you how many people told me later about "things they saw in the trees" and such. Definite success with that one.

So anyway, you're doing a seidr rite to channel a sigel for the intent of bringing magickal experience into the lives of the participants. From what I've read, traditional seidr includes a chorus of chanters and drummers who surround the shaman, to send them off into trancy land. There's your inner circle. Your Yin will have to lead them in chants and drumming, which will also have the effect of getting them tranced out as well, which can lead to experiences of their own. There's a start. Others can be given the job of "holding sacred space" by standing in a circle outside, given some basic tasks of focuing on the energy of the circle and holding space. Let them feel and figure it out from there. Then, audience beyond that of those not comfortable with particpating, but who want to watch.

As for the guardian spirit, it'd be a lot smarter to work with than against it. Call it right up and recruit it to help keep everything safe for all involved. Work with rather than against the forces you've got handy. That'll also get people involved who are familiar with it.

As for the sigil, sounds like you're going for an opening type of thing. I'd consider the sigil a "key" for opening one's self to magickal experience and syncronicity. Explain that all to them, what the sigil is supposed to do, and that its use will cause magick to enter and fuck with their lives. After you receive it, figure some way people can take it home with them. For instance, tokens with it drawn upon they can pocket or put on a cord. That way, the token becomes a talisman charged with the intent of the ritual. Fucking with the talisman will lead them to experiencing magick on their own later. And souvineers are cool Better yet, you draw it once big and let them come up and draw it themselves on their choice of token, getting them involved in the process. Make it all a part of the rite, done within circle. line all the token bearing brave folk tgether for some closing words, and turn them loose. Watch the fun from there.
 
 
gravitybitch
17:55 / 10.04.04
Soounds wonderful! Want to come out to the Bay Area and stage one here?

The only thing I can think of to add is to recruit one or two drummers experienced in ritual. And it may be worthwhile to get some cheap percussive instuments for the outer circle - little shakers and rattles and the like. You won't need to equip everybody - just tell them they should pass the instruments on to whoever is sittng next to them whenever they want/get tired.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
18:44 / 10.04.04
They've asked for this? What- they can't do a ritual themselves. There's no way you'd catch me pandering to someone elses desire in this way. Anyone can perform a ritual and anyone who wants magick in their lives can damn well pull it together on their own. This world is just so full of lily white scaredy cats. I spit on them all.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
18:46 / 10.04.04
And wouldn't it interrupt a ritual a little to be constantly wondering if you were hogging a shaker?
 
 
Z. deScathach
23:27 / 10.04.04
cusm: I think doing a ritual to "cause a magickal experience" is rather missing the point. The ritual is the magickal experience. The more you get people involved in it, the more they'll get out of it. Rather than just letting chaos into their lives and hoping some of them notice, take them by the hand and run them through something. Then, they'll immediately have something to take back from the experience.

Yes, that's a good point. We are trying to work out ways to get them "trancy", otherwise we figure that they'll have a tendency to close up. I see your point in the importance of getting involvement from them. We were planning to use music, engineered so that the trance effect can be maximized, and getting them to dance the circle. We do have a lot of intruments, though, rattles and such, so what you are talking about is definitely a viable option. In terms of myself, seidr trance works well for me in terms of getting me "out there". I just energy load myself until I start to shake. Still, I've had good results with meditative techniques, too. I haven't really decided what to use yet. My co-pilot and I will be doing some "dry runs" tommorrow. I figure to get a feel for which approach to take, then. I figure it's my role to set up the energy field, but you are absolutely right in that it's important to get them participating in it.

As for the guardian spirit, it'd be a lot smarter to work with than against it. Call it right up and recruit it to help keep everything safe for all involved. Work with rather than against the forces you've got handy. That'll also get people involved who are familiar with it.

Yes, that's true. Actually the astral tether is a device that I use to enable a spirit to resist a banishing, rather than tie it down. It gives it something to "hang on to". Truthfully, I got the idea from that movie "Twister". There's a scene at the end where the two characters resist getting sucked away by a tornado by hanging on to a pipe using a belt. When I banish an area I tend to use an energy flow, so the tether helps the spirit to resist that. It's worked quite well for that in the past. Actually bringing the spirit into the ritual I hadn't considered. It's a good idea, as protection is what it is clearly about. It is VERY much a part of the place. Leaving it out would be a major faux pas! The idea of giving participants tokens with the sigil is a great idea. You're right, nothing like a souvenir!

Anna de Logardiere:They've asked for this? What- they can't do a ritual themselves.

Actually no. We offered it. There have been some pagan rituals that have apparently been done in the past there. They were basically ceremonial. We decided to offer something deeper, with more gnosis.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
00:07 / 11.04.04
Why do you want to offer them a magickal experience? Do they understand what they're allowing you to do? Have they read up on it or are they blindly taking what you're giving them? I think these are important questions because under some religious lore this is completely and utterly heretical. You're offering these people blind involvement, they've never done this before and you're going to be working with a neo-pagan who I assume invokes God-forms. Are you going to just stop the deities wandering in and doing what they please- sometimes if you work with them enough they stop waiting for you to ask and how will people feel if Kali comes in with her customary sweep of energy?

I'm sorry I know I'm being really negative but I think people should make an actual conscious choice towards magick- it's one thing sticking a sigil on a street corner but direct exposure just isn't like that, it isn't like watching a ritual. You're aiming to give people something they haven't sought out for themselves- how will that corrupt the magickal experience?
 
 
cusm
11:03 / 12.04.04
The choice bit Anne is going on about is what I was considering with the token idea, by the way. That being, they'd have to choose to step up and take/make one to actually benefit from the intent of the working. Otherewise, they get the experience of participation or observation, but don't have the mojo worked upon them. Willful choice is very important in magick.
 
 
Z. deScathach
21:45 / 12.04.04
I see your point, however the choice issue was to be decided by giving people information and allowing them to take part or not. Those that do not want to take part, do not have to. That is why there are teirs of non-involvement ranging from complete non involvement to total involvement based on the decisions of the individuals. We had engineered that in order to give people a maximum level of choice. What seems to be importantr to me is that they are given good information, and are given the choice of involvment or non-involvement. As I said in my opening post, there are levels of involvement as follows.


!.Complete non-onvolvement

2.Partial involvement

3.Total involvement.

Given what you are saying though, I suppose I can see the point in eliminating level 2, as that could confuse the issue. I am concerned about the tokens, however, for this reason.... if persons have CHOSEN to actively participate in the ritual,i.e., third level, I am concerned that givng tokens to some of them will "blur the lines". In short I have concern that those those who are participating in the ritual, (third level) who do not recieve tokens will think that they are not participating, when for various reasons, (the most notable being physical involment), they ARE participating.

Anna de Logarderiere: Why do you want to offer them a magickal experience? Do they understand what they're allowing you to do? Have they read up on it or are they blindly taking what you're giving them? I think these are important questions because under some religious lore this is completely and utterly heretical.

Yes, those who are participating n this are coming into it with complete and utter informed consent, including the possibilities of life changing events. In terms of religous lore, I view religion to be humankinds worst mistake, and that we will be a better species when we realize that. As a result, I could care less what it's lore thinks.... also, I'm very fond of heretics.....

You're offering these people blind involvement, they've never done this before and you're going to be working with a neo-pagan who I assume invokes God-forms. Are you going to just stop the deities wandering in and doing what they please- sometimes if you work with them enough they stop waiting for you to ask and how will people feel if Kali comes in with her customary sweep of energy?

Your assumption is incorrect, no one is being allowed into this that has not given informed consent, (see above). If not a SINGLE PERSON decides to participate, I have no problem with that. The assumption that neo-pagans automatically assume god-forms is also incorrect, (she was rather amused by that). Assuming a god-form is an act of conscious volition. If Kali just comes "sweeping in" out of the blue against everyone's will, that is crap ritual done by a piss poor mage. In a ritual, the only things that should be happening are things that are of a conscious volition. An example of this is Vodoun ritual. There is frequently an assumption that everything is "all over the place". This is not true. Both the priestess and that followers know exactly what to expect. While it is nor known in advance whether anyone will be "ridden", the expectation is clearly there. The Loas are expected to come "sweeping in", and the priestess is in control of the ritual space. Yes, I know that possesion by nature is a loss of conscious volition, but it is undeniable that everything leading up to that point is controlled by the practitioner.

As this is clearly going into threadrot, I will start a thread........
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:10 / 13.04.04
If Kali just comes "sweeping in" out of the blue against everyone's will, that is crap ritual done by a piss poor mage

No, it's not actually. Have you engaged in heavy invocation rituals over a long period of time because there are a number of deities who have a tendency to do this if you work closely with them- Kali being one of them and I'm guessing that it happens far more often since Fiona Horne brought her trash out (hello beginner, invoke this ancient Indian Goddess when you have been practising for a week and a half and that is the result not of a poor ritual but of simple inexperience). I don't want to even describe the feeling of unease that comes over me if I try to invoke a God who isn't Hecate and that's the result of having a patron, not of poor ritual work. Deities are flighty, they're not subjects to be controlled. The more you work with them the more they're everywhere in your life.

I've been a practising witch for 10 years. I started when I was 12, Hecate's been my patron for around 4 years. Please be ruder to me.

Look, I've obviously put you on the defensive but there's a reason I'm asking you these questions and contrary to what I've written above it's not that I think this is necessarily a bad idea. It's that when you introduce people who do not practice any form of magick in to the working of a ritual they introduce an unstable element. You're talking about piss poor rituals while discussing the involvement of a group who have never done this before. But how many people actually start group magick before they've observed it? These people are going to dive in with no experience and you can't control their reactions- most likely it'll be fine, I doubt anyone's going to run screaming, but the ritual's more than likely going to be screwed by someone wandering around like a moron.

I wasn't trying to emphasise the consent of the people involved, I want you to outline your motivation which imo is about a hundred times more important than the morals involved here. Rituals do not always work at a conscious level but your only control in a ritual is over yourself so you need to know more about you than about the ritual and that includes motivations, interaction with the other people etc. My questions are meant to be practical because you're giving these people their first magickal experience, not necessarily after observation (though that may be the case for some of them), not after initiation but their very first.
 
 
Z. deScathach
17:23 / 13.04.04
Anna de Logardiere:I've been a practising witch for 10 years. I started when I was 12, Hecate's been my patron for around 4 years. Please be ruder to me.

Kettle calling Pot: You should not invite rudeness, as it is unpleasant, but since you asked....... I am 48 years old and have trained in magick in one form or another for 25 years. I was a ceremonialist for 4(?, it was so long ago), albeit shoddily, practiced oriental magicks for about 5 years, was a practicing Wiccan for 10 years, and have been practicing chaos magicks for 6. God how I hate this "Look at me, look at what I know" crap! You invite rudeness with your patronizing statements, (that and actually asking for it). Sorry, I just couldn't resist. (Actually, no. I'm not one damn bit sorry). Now, back to intelligent conversation, hopefully.*sigh* (to those of you other Barbelites witnessing this sad round of silliness, my apologies).


I don't want to even describe the feeling of unease that comes over me if I try to invoke a God who isn't Hecate and that's the result of having a patron, not of poor ritual work. Deities are flighty, they're not subjects to be controlled. The more you work with them the more they're everywhere in your life.

The above statement, IMO, is a result of YOUR personal experience on your path. The individual that is working with me is not on your path. I suspect that you have a devotional relationship to your deities,(note that I said suspect, I am not assuming so). I respect that. Actually, I have great respect for your personal path, but I get slightly rankled,(well, more than slightly), when said path is applied to people working in other paradigms. You have made assumptions about my friend that are not correct. You have assumed that she shares your universe. Perhaps deities are flighty in your universe, a universe that I DO have respect for. In a path that is devotionally oriented, they frequently are. They are not flighty in mine. I picked the individual carefully with the intent that she act as an energy controller. If I thought that she would be dragging Kali into the working, I wouldn't have chosen her.

These people are going to dive in with no experience and you can't control their reactions- most likely it'll be fine, I doubt anyone's going to run screaming, but the ritual's more than likely going to be screwed by someone wandering around like a moron.

Yes, and if the ritual get's screwed, what of it? What I highly suspect will occur is that most people will sit it out, or passively observe. The brave few, (if any), that actually get involved will probably do just fine, as many of them have already taken part in pagan rituals. They will be insructed as to what to expect, what to do, and yes, I'll do my best to scare them off. What you are really talking about is whether they should be permitted to have this experience. I believe that they should, however I find it odd that you are so concerned for the welfare of my friends after saying that you spit on them,(yuk). IMO the real problem with this conversation is that the salient points having to do with doing this sort of working are not being talked about. What I was asking for was advice on technical issues. You decided to make it a moral one. Also, saying that you spit on a person's friends usually invites a flame. That is why I started another thread on the subject. It covers the moral aspects of such a working. See ya there. Oh, and please, no spitting on folks, it's illegal where I live.
 
 
cusm
17:30 / 13.04.04
Alrighty now, lets everyone remember again that more often than not people on this forum are operating from a paradigm different from yours, so one can never say "this always happens" so much as "when done my way, this can happen." Good ground rules to avoiding unnecessary flameage.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
18:40 / 13.04.04
As a 48 year old who's been practising for 25 years I would have thought you'd be old enough to answer questions and take them as questions rather than assume I was criticising your entire system of magickal practice. My first post was meant to be geared towards valid questions in a jokey way, reading it back I admit I don't think I hit it right, of course I don't really want to spit on anyone, your friends, my friends or complete strangers (I would spit on Blunkett but that's years of anger and off-topic). Please don't think I'm a cunt because I'm trying not to be. I'm also posting here because I don't want to rot another thread.

When you said- any ideas? Am I insane? I thought you were inviting people to ask about what you were doing and offer their opinions, not simply make suggestions about the ritual itself. I was clearly wrong because I asked questions that I would always ask about the motivation of a ritual involving people who weren't around magick much and you have reacted to them as if they were accusations and moral rather than centred on inexperience as I meant them to be. Perhaps a little clarification as to the exact nature of the thread is needed in your next summary- am I insane suggests you want a critique. This sentence sounds like I'm stepping on your toes, I don't mean to though.

I attempted to explain that I wasn't some jumped up newbie, I'm not interested in how much experience you have to be honest. It's clear that we've chosen totally different paths, that doesn't make my points any less valid. I made one assumption- all the neo-pagans I've ever met have worked with godforms, that's what the word pagan has come to suggest, working with a deity whether that's 'Mother Goddess' or 'Diana'. I also think it's valid to ask that question (though admittedly preferably without the assumption) because it's a big factor and the type of factor that really screws up a ritual rather than playing with it slightly.

I'm not a magickal elitist, I understand that everyone does these things differently but really I don't think that should stop me from questioning your motivation in doing a ritual for people who haven't sought this out themselves. I think that anyone who asks should have access but I've always had a problem with offering people something they don't understand or might not really want and that stems from experiences with Christianity. I do not want any form of pagan practice to turn in to the type of experience that is everywhere, that you can't escape and is forced upon you and while I understand that you're not forcing anyone, I'd hate for someone to misunderstand what is going on and that's why I've been giving you a bit of a hard time. Most of us have had some experience of worship forced on to us, why would occultism behave any differently?

Btw, you don't step out of magick (sorry, Temple) very often do you? I was talking to you as if you were used to my posting style, hence the 'spit' comment but I'm guessing you haven't come across my tendency to over exaggerate everything in a violent and utterly moronic way. I apologise for not being a little more tender.
 
 
Z. deScathach
22:08 / 13.04.04
Anna de Logardiere:Perhaps a little clarification as to the exact nature of the thread is needed in your next summary- am I insane suggests you want a critique. This sentence sounds like I'm stepping on your toes, I don't mean to though.

Errrr...yes. That was an unfortunate use of words. I sometimes can come off as rather flippant, not a good idea for a message board. If it's any consolation, I kicked myself multilply after using that phrase.....


I think that anyone who asks should have access but I've always had a problem with offering people something they don't understand or might not really want and that stems from experiences with Christianity.

I can see your point on this, but I think it's important to understand that UU's as a rule tend to be pretty open to things. Also we intend to make it VERY clear that bowing out is no disgrace. We are making very sure that the participants understand the nature of magick as well. I've done a number of talks with them about it, and have led several discussion groups,(they hold discussion groups about numerous things, I'm leading one on E-Prime in a week, oh please don't think that I use E-Prime, it gives me a headache....)

Btw, you don't step out of magick (sorry, Temple) very often do you? I was talking to you as if you were used to my posting style, hence the 'spit' comment but I'm guessing you haven't come across my tendency to over exaggerate everything in a violent and utterly moronic way. I apologise for not being a little more tender.

Hmmmm....... I've managed to get into an argument in.......THE TEMPLE! How long would I last in an issue forum. Hmmmmmmmmm...........
 
 
trouser the trouserian
04:49 / 14.04.04
Sticking my oar in at this point...

I've either facilitated - or helped facilitate a good number of 'open ritual events' where many of the participants have had little or no practical experience of magic. For many of them, these events were often their first experience of group ritual (particularly mass group ritual). And I've quite a few friends who also do this kind of magical 'outreach' work on a regular basis, via running conferences, workshops, week-long pagan camps and so forth. One of my personal favourite events of this nature was performing a mass invocation of Pan & Eris at Conway Hall using a reading of William S Burroughs' text "Apocalypse" some years ago.

Sure, there are a few issues you need to be aware of, but in general, if you can organise yourself (and others) efficiently, can clearly communicate to your participants the aims of the ritual, why they're doing what they're going to be doing, and so forth, have able assistants (if you need them, which you might, if it is a large group), and don't fall into the trap of thinking that non-magicians can't contribute to what's going on, I don't see why you can't all have a great time.

You might find the pdf "Running Magical Workshops" here of some use in this regard.

I think your notion of three tiers of involvement is an interesting one, but surely even if people are just 'watching' the event, they are going to be effected, in a similar manner that watching a play (and ritual is in many ways a performance) can stir the audience - and actors 'pick up' on the audience's reaction. In fact, I would say that audience-participant feedback, if structured effectively, can enhance the entire group's experience. As an alternative, I'd suggest allowing people to shift between different degrees of participation as they see fit. A schema I've tried out a couple of times is: if you want to sit out then sit down, if you want to give attention then stand up and direct your gaze to the ritual's centre, and if you want to enjoy then move about - dance, whirl, clap your hands, etc. This schema enables to participants to move from one level of participation to another as they see fit. So for example if they start out in the space feeling a bit unsure, then over time decide they want to dance, etc., they can do without feeling they are disrupting the proceedings. This can work well for long rituals where there's a lot going on.
 
 
illmatic
07:00 / 14.04.04
Just chipping in to say, I see nothing wrong per se with running rituals and suchlike for non magicians. If the magical culture that's around at the moment leads to anything more substantial - and it's a big if - these occurences might become more commonplace. It might start from tentative steps such as are proposed here, and after a while start articulating the needs and identity of a community. That's how all this stuff started after all. (I'm harking back to Shamanic cultures, if the inference wasn't obvious).

Few thoughts - People frequently wash up in magical subcultures because they're looking for something a bit different - one thing that's conspicous about Western Spirituality as it's presented (marketed, actually) as a series of indvidual "paths". In this model, the empahsis kind of seems to be on "priests" and there isn't much space for someone who wants just to connect and be part of a congregation. Starting a series of group rituals like this might be a way of moving into that kind of space. To hypothesize a bit further - I can see how these kind of workings could lead to one become involved in the special events of people's lives where they want recgnition, ritual and blessing - births, marriages, deaths, moments of passage. A community would obviously want to celebrate events important to it - such as the passage of the year (pagan festivals again) though in a culture like ours, this might just be celebration of the monthly paycheck! (I suppose we do this anyway, by getting hideously drunk and running up our overdrafts). Yes, alright, I'm lettingmy imagination run away with - I've just made Z de Tribal Shaman for her town - but I can see those kind of things emerging from these kind or practises.

(On the community service note - I've started offering divinaions to people, for the price of a pint normally. It just seems a way of putting back into The Well that I've drawn so much out of).
 
 
illmatic
07:24 / 14.04.04
Some more thoughts (after actually reading the thread properly) - if you feel there's a spirit present, I would defintely involve it and ask it's blessing. It's it's space after all. (Actually, I see spirits of place as actually BEING the place, kind of gestalt as it were, so not involving it and recognising it would be a bit mad, but that's another thread). If you feel it's a protective spirit, you could strengthen it and ask for it's protection at each of the four quarters as part of your banishing. You could set up a bowl for offerings to it - spirits like to be fed - or spare change etc and encourage people to feed it. Use the money after to buy something nice for the space.

As to the ritual itself, you could people to ask for something relevant to their lives in some way, rather than a generalised "experience of magick", - might be better relations with partners, might be more focus and promotion in the workplace, could just be connection to divinity - anything that they feel they'd like the spirit of the ritual to smile upon. Much as I moan about the method, you could even show them how to craft their own sigils and gather them all together and burn'em afterwards. But I like the token idea as well.

Practical stuff - you'll probably know all this anyway - with drumming, dancing and the like, I always think it's nice to alternate silence and stillness with movement and activity. Gives you a chance to focus internally, and trance out a bit. You can build up to several climaxs, and break off. Also, at the end some kind of collective feast is a must, sitting chilling, sharing perceptions.

Don't forget to let us know how it goes!
 
 
trouser the trouserian
10:25 / 14.04.04
just chipping in to say, I see nothing wrong per se with running rituals and suchlike for non magicians. If the magical culture that's around at the moment leads to anything more substantial - and it's a big if - these occurences might become more commonplace.

Err, they already are fairly commonplace. Take Gordon the Toad for example - an environmental educator who specialises in "helping people discover their own ways of valuing the "specialness" of their homes, schools, neighbourhoods and the wildlife that surrounds us." Gordon's approach is very much oriented towards celebration/drama/performance, but its no less magical for that, particularly as much of his work enables people to redevelop a sense of 'connection' to their local environment. You can find some general guidelines for structuring open rituals at the homepage of Coventry Earth Spirit and a discussion of Open Circle Ethics.
 
 
Z. deScathach
06:24 / 15.04.04
absence of gravitas:A schema I've tried out a couple of times is: if you want to sit out then sit down, if you want to give attention then stand up and direct your gaze to the ritual's centre, and if you want to enjoy then move about - dance, whirl, clap your hands, etc. This schema enables to participants to move from one level of participation to another as they see fit.

Having people go at will from physically participating to not at will is a great idea. I see your point in the flexibility of that arrangement. As the ritual is part of a general UU service, we still plan to provide a tier of non-involvement. The general theme of the service is magick, we have some readings, songs and the like, so for those who do not wish to participate ritually, there will still be some goings on,(albeit not at the same time).

Illmatic:To hypothesize a bit further - I can see how these kind of workings could lead to one become involved in the special events of people's lives where they want recgnition, ritual and blessing - births, marriages, deaths, moments of passage.

I suspect that those types of workings will become more and more common as magickal practice itself becomes more widespread. We're in the middle of an unparalleled birth of magickal practice,(I say "birth" because I think the amount of magickal practice in society has reached an unprecedented level).

Some more thoughts (after actually reading the thread properly) - if you feel there's a spirit present, I would defintely involve it and ask it's blessing. It's it's space after all. (Actually, I see spirits of place as actually BEING the place, kind of gestalt as it were, so not involving it and recognising it would be a bit mad, but that's another thread).

Most definitely. My copilot and I went over to the place to do some "dry running" and energy work in order to get more used to each other and prepare. There it was by the doorway watching. She wasn't able to see it astrally but afterwords said, "It was over by the door wasn't it." Apparently she had felt it quite easily. It used to be very protective with me. I would come into the place at night and instantly it would set up what I call a strong "willie field", you know, tense scary atmosphere that makes you want to run out of the place. It would also behave agressively. Apparently, it played piano for two people that were there at night,(God, I would have loved to have been there). Now it seems to be much less agressive in nature. More curious than anything. I don't know why I haven't thought of putting an offering bowl out for it, great idea! I've only seen it optically once, where I saw it as a figure walking across the dark hall. I have seen it astrally numerous times, usually when it comes flying up the stairs when I enter at night. I've become a guardian for the place myself, I go there daily to practice piano, and I always check the doors and make sure everything is unplugged. I believe that it has recognized that role in me, and as a result is less agressive. Yes, I intend to invite it into the ritual. I'm having a hard time discovering a mode of communication, though.

Don't forget to let us know how it goes!

Sure will! It's over a month away, though, so it'll be awhile.

Thanks for the links Absence!
 
 
trouser the trouserian
07:42 / 15.04.04
I'm having a hard time discovering a mode of communication, though.

Yes, this can be tricky, but here's a few suggestions. One is 'opening up' to the spirit and inviting it to 'speak' through you. If you're familiar with possession states, then it's not too dissimilar, though I'd advise having at least one assistant with you - if only as to act as a scribe. My experience of doing this is that I haven't tended to get coherent sentences, more like bursts of impressions - emotional impressions, images, the occasional word-burst. If you can get into this state, automatic writing/drawing is another option for attempting to create a medium through which to garner impressions.

Another potentially useful approach is the old 'seance' approach using a planchette or moving hands round a table to spell out words. Perhaps a simpler alternative is to use a pendulum.

Granted, with all these approaches there's the issue of confabulation from the operators interfering with communication - but then in most types of human-spirit interaction, there's always the issue of who's actually doing the 'talking', isn't there? Hence the usefulness of doing this sort of thing with assistants.

A further thought is that you might try looking into the history of the building and try and find out how much of a 'history' the manifestations of this entity have. Is there any local folklore concerning the spirit, or the building for that matter?

A question that springs to mind is, how would you feel if the spirit indicated that it didn't want you to perform the ritual you're intending to do, in that place?
 
 
Z. deScathach
22:43 / 15.04.04
Absence of Gravitas: A question that springs to mind is, how would you feel if the spirit indicated that it didn't want you to perform the ritual you're intending to do, in that place?

Truthfully, if it seriously objects, I would be very tempted to call it off. Still, I can't really say for sure unless I actually receive that communication, as I avoid making decisions until all factors are accounted for and examined. The impressions that I've been receiving though indicate that it won't be a problem, but when communication gets narrowed down, who knows. I've pretty much decided on using a planchette as an external device. Personally I'm not too fond of them, but there are instances that they are tailor made for. I might try psychic hearing, as I do have that capability, but the real problem seems to be getting it to communicate at all. It seems rather shy, unless it is protecting. We attempted to "open" to it several nights ago, and got nothing. I am concerned about it. That is why I'm being extra careful about any banishings done.
 
  
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