BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


The Galaxy's Greatest Comic...

 
  

Page: (1)23

 
 
DavidXBrunt
15:54 / 04.04.04
2000 A.D. natch. Now some might say it's been in the doldrums lately, and with 'Valkyries' amongst the line-up it's hard to refute that, but the current line-up is much improved.

Rennie and Adlard bring us old school Dredd vs. Sovs action in wide-screen. Abnett and Clarke are sobering up Sinister Dexter and returning the strip to greatness. Rennie (again) and Holden have performed a Lazarus-esque miracle and breathed life in 'Rogue Trooper' again. Spurrier and Roberts release another exploit of the supernatural student slackers 'Bec and Kawl' and finally Abnett (again) and Harrison continue the only weak strip in the line-up 'Durham Red'.

It's the best time for reading 2k since the early eighties. What with 'Cabalistics Inc.', 'Leviathon', 'Strontium Dog', and others being brought to us by some of the best writers and artists in the U.K. it's a long time since Thrill-Power flowed so freely.

Well, that's my biased opinion. What say you? Not knowing the etiquete for this place I've just gone ahead and started a topic. Moderate me if I'm in the wrong...also Hello all.
 
 
_Boboss
16:53 / 04.04.04
doubt you'll find many here willing to concede that it currently beats the earlymid nineties summer offensive days, but welcome.

and sorry about this, but i'm a cunt and it's doing my head in:

Galaxy's
 
 
Spaniel
18:02 / 04.04.04
Ya don't get moderated on Barbelith for being wrong.

Have just been reading late eighties' Stronty Doggen, and Nemesis. Such naughty counter-cutural fun.

Any sign of politics in today's comic?
 
 
Haus of Mystery
18:25 / 04.04.04
Retroism seems to be the order of the day. Bit of a creative cul-de-sac really. Still, thank fuck it still exists.
 
 
penitentvandal
18:47 / 04.04.04
2000 AD's problem is that all the guys who made it great (Morrisson, Milligan, Millar, Moore, Ennis etc) all got snapped up by American behemoth corporations who offered them more money to write in America. This left 2000AD with no decent homegrown talent, and forced into the position of regurgitating elements of American pop culture to a diminishing home audience who were much more impressed with the cooler American stuff.

In this, 2000AD functions as a surprisingly apt mirror of British pop culture.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
19:40 / 04.04.04
Although to be fair all the aforementioned were not those who made it great, rather they continued the groundbreaking work done by John Wagner and Pat Mills. There would be no 2000AD if not for Pat Mills. The real problem with the current incarnation is that it seems to be harking back to glory days to win back the straying 20-somethings who bought it as a kid. Trouble with that is that newbies may well be left rather non-plussed. It needs to have the same punk-rock cred and impact it had in the early 80's. I remember my big bro owning a copy when I was in short shorts, and it actually scared me so much I didn't want to look at it again.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
07:06 / 05.04.04
Not sure so much about that velvetvandal, Rebellion are putting out a load of Ennis Judge Dredd stuff and, apart from the more widescreen-tastic moments like Necropolis or that one where the dead attack even he struggles to find stuff to do with a character that has no doubts and no interior monologue. I always thought that was why we had characters like Judge Anderson and most of the other judges, so that we could have people that do think about what's going on.

I suspect 2000AD, though I don't read it, is placed now where it's always been, on the edge of crisis and redundancy.
 
 
Dan Fish - @Fish1k
08:12 / 05.04.04
Must admit, I haven't bought it for a while, outside of the christmas progs, but I do sometimes flick through it in the newsagents.

The problem with 2000ad (and with most anthologies) is the ongoing nature of the stories - you really can't tell from one issue if the writing is to your taste.

I would prefer it if there was one 15-page rotating lead strip, plus maybe 2 5-page backups and a couple of 1-page comedy strips.

I think 2000ad has tons of potential - I've liked the look of some of the recentish strips, like '13' for example - shame those US repackaged versions never materialised.
 
 
sleazenation
09:14 / 05.04.04
Well this week's issue offers a great excuse to pick up an issue of 2000AD in the shape of a Simon Pegg scripted one-off strip that ties into the release of Shaun of the Dead. Sounds like it should ba a laugh...
 
 
DavidXBrunt
09:35 / 05.04.04
Yeah, Galaxy's. Stupid mistake there.

And the 'Shaun of the Dead' tie-in strip is an interesting experiment. The art from Frazer Irving makes it worth picking up.

Currently the talent is going through a rennaisance - Wagner and Grant do what they've always done but there's also established 2k writers like Rennie, Abnett, and Robbiw Morrison plus new to 2k writers lilke Edgington, and Spurrier and the artist line-up is as strong as it's ever been. It's no co-incidence that it's still the proving grounds for the creators behind some of the biggest American comic succeses. Diggle, Jock, and Carey to name three.


And whilst there is a strongly retro flavour to the comic of the day, deliberatley to llure back lapsed squaxx, at least they continue to provide new stories alongside them. The recent Cabalistics Inc. is amongst the best things British comics have produced. In years to come it'll be spoken about in the same way Zenith is today, mark my words.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
11:32 / 05.04.04
Sinister Dexter, Durham Red, Rogue Trooper... haven't they been pushing that exact same line-up for about seven years now? It sounds less like they're going for a retro selection and more like they're simply repeating what they've been doing for the best part of a decade.
 
 
Spaniel
16:59 / 05.04.04
all the guys who made it great (Morrisson, Milligan, Millar, Moore, Ennis etc) all got snapped up by American behemoth corporations who offered them more money to write in America. This left 2000AD with no decent homegrown talent

Well, yes, but why hasn't anyone stepped in to take their place? I'm sure you're not arguing that the UK will never produce their like again.

The recent Cabalistics Inc. is amongst the best things British comics have produced. In years to come it'll be spoken about in the same way Zenith is today, mark my words.

Okay, so I haven't read 2000AD for yonks, but I'd be fucking surprised.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
18:33 / 05.04.04
Me too. What I read of it certainly didn't impress that much, but it seems like a sound enough idea.
 
 
sleazenation
19:33 / 05.04.04
I wanted to wait 'til I picked up the latest issue before I made any comments, hoping that I'd have more positive things to say before I dieved into the criticisms but the latest issue wasn't in boarders and there aren't that many newsagents of any strip near where I work...

2000AD are currently producing fun comics - just one example is Scarlet Traces by ian edgington and D'israli (ok technically it isn't 2000AD but it was run in the megazine). But their over reliance on mainstays such as Dan Abnett has put me off buying the comic. Abnett is a talented writer- his work on Knights of Pendragon nearly 15 years ago was fantastic but he hasn't done anything to exite me since then- sinister dexter has left me cold, as has his Durham Red. I'd like to see the back of Sinister Dexter and something a bit different instead.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
19:54 / 05.04.04
Hear Hear. Such an average writer.And Sinister Dexter - no thanks. Never have, never will. I'll read anything with D'israeli's art though. Remember Tumulo, and Fatal Charm in Deadline? Fucking hell, remember Deadline?
 
 
DavidXBrunt
11:49 / 06.04.04
Ah, D'Israeli is one of the greats. Be sure to look out for the colour reprint of 'Kingdom of the Wicked'. It's been a long campaign on his and Ian Edgingtons to get it out but it'll be worth it.

And yeah, I do think Cabals is as good as Zenith. I speak as a big fan of the strip and a bigger fan of Steve Yeowell. Dom Reardon, the artist on Cabals, is going to be big one day.
 
 
DavidXBrunt
11:52 / 06.04.04
Oh, and whilst Sinister Dexter has been a regular part of the line-up Rogue and Durham haven't been that frequent. In fact, if the rumours are true, this current line-up will be the end for both characters for the forseeable.

But it's easy to see why they should have so much retro stuff. The new material has been devisive. Old favourites are always going to have an easier time with the readers. And to be fair of the old strips brought out of retirement some of them, and I'm thinking Strontium Dog and Robo-Hunter in particular, are better than they have been in decades. Mark Millar and Garth Ennis are great writers but their work on 2k was under par and they damn near knackered those strips for all time.
 
 
_Boboss
12:26 / 06.04.04
grant knackered the stronts by killing johnny. don't get me started on that, i may cry.

one recent 2kad that looked very tempty to me (despite the retro flava which i maintain is a very bad direction for an sf comic to be taking) was this wagner and ezquerra thing about a platoon of tiny gardening robots (with massive guns of course) who protect one of the last bits of greenery in mc1 from bugs, baddies and the like. top concept, had a flick through the trade in the shop the other day and it made me grin.

but lets rewind like craig david - in the late nineties, me and the celebrity in fp oxford street, and this weeek 2kad was 'for adults only' - y'know: 'racy'. loads of rubbish cheesecake and nothing else. seeing that i knew they'd hit terminal decline, and the best comic of all could never again be as good as i wanted it to be.

so cabballistics then : tell us - sell, sell
 
 
Spaniel
17:29 / 06.04.04
...about a platoon of tiny gardening robots (with massive guns of course) who protect one of the last bits of greenery in mc1 from bugs, baddies and the like.

Like this idea.

On Cabalwotsits - I really hope it's as good as you say. I want to love it.
 
 
DavidXBrunt
21:30 / 06.04.04
Right, the gardening robot thing was 'Banzai Battalion' which has recently been released as a collection in the rather snazzy Rebellion style. John Wagner writes it and Henry Flint and Ian Gibson, and others, draw it. It's purely designed to be a fun read, and it is.

As for Cabals, you're going to regret asking because I ramble on the subject... well, on one level it's a simple story of a freelance supernatural investigation team. Under the auspices of a reclusive, retired, rock-star the team of stuffy proffesors (all tweed and repression), colonial exorcist specialists (a couple of yanks who take chainsaws to zombies) and a mysterious european (goatee and secrets) investigate various supernatural mysteries. If that were all it were it'd be a decent enough tale. Good script, snappy dialogue, moody art. Nice. Gordon Rennie is a capable writer, Dom Reardon a growing talent. He also has an Alec Guiness like ability to wear a white suit, get pissed, go for a curry, and end the night spotlessly clean - which isn't easy.

But it's also about these characters lives and lies and how they interact. Their actions and what they hide from one another has repurcussions and consequences that build up as each story unfolds. With this it becomes a superior serial with information meted out in small doses. Genuine progression has meant each story changes the status quo somewhat.

And if that were all it were it'd still be one of the best things in 2k for a while. But as well as this there are whole other layers. Subtle references set up connections to the fabulous 'Necronauts' from the same writer and Frazer Irving. This 1920's set tale of supernatural horrors being beat back by a cricket bat wielding Arthur Conan Doyle is the first stage of what GRennie appears to be building. There are plans for a third series set during the second world war. This 'Department Q' tale would feature characters from 'Necronauts' and 'Cabals'. I was lucky enough to see character designs for this, and any strip that features a Brian Blessed lookalike has my vote.

Now the thing that appeals to me, that marks it's greatness is that it's something that can be read independantly. 'Necronauts' (in paperback now) is a top story in and of itself. Each smaller Cabals story works as a short story but adds to a greater whole. What GRennie is building, or seems to be, is a vast fictional supernatural secret history of 80 years in Britain.

Taking real life characters like Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, mixing in fictional characters such as Brigadeer Alaister Gordon Lethbridge Stewart, and real events such as Hitlers SonderKommandur Thule, and fantasy like Quatermass and the Pit to tell a peculiarly British horror epic.

And it's witty with characters that grow and looks great. And maintains the 5 page episode format nicely. It's a rare modern 2k strip that has people wondering what will happen next to the characters and eagerly awaiting the next batch of episodes.

Of course some people say it's a load of mumbo jumbo nonsense with sketchy drawings. But that's care in the community for you.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
00:09 / 07.04.04
Necronauts is the strip that was poo-pooed hereabouts as being "like League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, only not as good," isn't it? The 'various teams throughout the decades' thing is only going to make that similarity more obvious. I've got the feeling that the first episode was in one of the two complimentary issues I received a while back as an ex-subscriber, and that I wasn't too taken with it. I'll dig them out and have another look.

It also sounds a lot like the godawful Fort - nothing to do with 2000AD, but drawn by Irving and featuring Charles Fort and HP Lovecraft doing battle with supernatural beasties.
 
 
DavidXBrunt
07:23 / 07.04.04
Well I don't know if it was poopood or not. I'm assured that the idea came a long time before L.o.E.G. The different teams aspect has grown out of Cabals back story and adds a lot to it.

Necronauts is a great little story in it's own rights but compare practically anything to L.o.E.G. and it'll come off unfavourably.
 
 
_Boboss
08:06 / 07.04.04
well, i'm about a quarter convinced. i remember reading a bit of necronauts and not being too impressed. my problem is that the writer would have done better stuff already, and obviously so, if he was going to be much cop at all for the long run. and the concept sounds like loeg/the establishment (which i didn't read either), a bit too easy almost - all the signifiers that you want are there, but unless they've been interestingly mixed together yr still just gonna have another tired boysown strip about undead nazis. sounds like rebellion by numbers : 'can it be turned into a computer game?' check. 'we'll take it'

nice to have you around and keeping this old squaxx informed XBrunt - reckon you might want to fess-up your corporate interests, parliament style, about now though.
 
 
sleazenation
08:31 / 07.04.04
I will defend the establishment - cos it was great fun - nothing revolutionary or in anyway taxing, but it was great to see pretty much every British pop-cultural icon from the post-war period in one comic...
 
 
Haus of Mystery
10:42 / 07.04.04
Gordon Rennie is a terminal nearly-ran writer. I'm sorry, but still Cabbalistics sounds a bit nineties to me, but then I'm a grumpy git today. The only character of recent times (and I mean that quite liberally) who looked like he had staying power was Nikolai Dante, who just seemed to fit into that 2000ad style.
My problem with the retro angle is that it relies on past glories - getting Wagner to return to Stronts, and RoboHunter etc.. At it's peak 2K was head and shoulders more interesting than most American mainstream stuff, but now I ain't sure. Anyway, bah humbug.
 
 
sleazenation
11:26 / 07.04.04
The Nikolai Dante strips are undoubtedly fun but aren't they just the 'confessions of' films set in a sci-fi Russia?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
12:26 / 07.04.04
There were elements of that, for sure, but Robbie Morrison had based it all in a properly coherent, original world. The family dynamics and political intrigue stuff was fairly interesting, too. For a good long time Dante was the only strip that had a bit of life and joy in it.

I think I'm right in saying that it was originally only supposed to be an introduction to that world, Morrison's main aim being to lure readers into his Tsar Wars epic. I lost interest when John Burns took over art duties. Horrible, muddy work, completely at odds with the universe Simon Fraser had designed.
 
 
Spaniel
15:10 / 07.04.04
But where's the satire, the political comment, the fucking zeitgeist?

2KAD has always been at it's best when it grabbed the modern-world by the balls. All this harking back to past glories horrifies me, although perhaps we should bring back Dave. I'm sure he'd give young George a good kicking.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
15:16 / 07.04.04
I like a 2000ad story with a fully fledged world view - Halo Jones, Zenith, Bad Co., you know the drill - which is why Dante appealed to me (although I really must add that I have read very little of it to back up my support of it..)
On a slightly different track when does everyone think it went tits up? For me it would be when Mark Millar was writing about two-thirds of it and that arch twat David Bishop had editorial control. Some real shite came out at that point:
Grudgefather
Babe Race 2000 (both Millar - thanks Mark)
Dinosty (extremely unfunny Pat Mills Dinosaur soap)
and so on.
I think I stopped reading shortly after. Oh, and for my money Grant's take on JD was the worst thing he's ever written by athousand miles (worse than Spawn goddamnit). Anyone else think of any stinkers?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
16:20 / 07.04.04
I hesitate to say it, because I don't really want to be held responsible for giving anybody bad dreams, but...

Kola Kommandos.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
17:01 / 07.04.04
Chronos Carnival!
Dry Run!

Please Mummy make the bad stories leave me alone.
 
 
penitentvandal
19:11 / 07.04.04
You're all forgetting the horror that was Space Girls and The Balls Brothers...But then again 2000AD has always had crap 'humour' strips. Ace Trucking Company, anyone? I think the rot began to set in with Zippy Couriers - sure there was brilliant stuff being written at that time, but just as 'Shake It' on Let's Dance serves as an intimation of the horrors to come for the Bowie fan on Tonight, so Zippy Couriers, in all it's 'Hey! It's 2000AD doing a soap-opera strip! You know, like that stuff they have in the other grown-up comics!' hints at the horrible loss of creative confidence 2000AD would soon go through. As the years went by, the crap content grew - Chronos Carnival has been mentioned already, but let's not forget the god-awful Mike Fleischer Rogue Trooper stories and the crap waste of Steve Dillon's artistic talent that was the Harlem Heroes revival - the first signs of Tharg's Minions turning the comic into a false clone of itself in an effort to relive past glories, for my money...

I think 2000AD is improving, though. I like SinDex, I like Caballistics (though I wish they'd run stories more regularly, then it would be easier to follow the slow-burning storyline), Pat Mills recently turned in a Slaine story that wasn't total shit (which doesn't say it was good, mind - just that it wasn't anywhere near as bad as the brainfarts he's passed off as writing in recent years), and Nikolai Dante I actually do think is genius and astonishingly out of place in the comic, but I thank God when it's in there. It could still be better, though - I personally would welcome some real headfuck stuff like the glory days of Brigand Doom and Revere, Button Man and the heyday of the Mills droid and his paranoid madness. What they want to do is get Mills to resurrect Accident Man for them and run a story in which Fallon takes on Osama bin Laden. And yes, I know AM was in Toxic! (a comic which was interesting in that it gave the reader a unique opportunity to see Mills' writing career fall apart before your very eyes) but iirc it was creator-owned and would knock seven bells out of the Spic and the Irishman if done correctly. In fact, AM versus SinDex itself would be worth paying for. I'm rambling a little...

2000 AD's school report: Grades are improving but could still do better. The student needs to stop living in the past and playing computer games, and pay more attention in his English and Art classes. A willingness to show up in the lecture hall for Philosophy lessons from time to time would also show a refreshing change in attitude...Sort it out!
 
 
Haus of Mystery
19:58 / 07.04.04
Oh God! Michael Fleischer! His strips went on for FUCKING EVER. Junker! AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRGH! I remember when Zenith phase 3 went on a hiatus to be replaced by Harlem Heroes, I wanted to weep tears of adolescent fury.
OK - Hall of Shame cont...
Wireheads!
Dead Meat (I think) with Inspector Ram! Fucking hell...
 
 
DavidXBrunt
22:36 / 07.04.04
Corporate Interest? Me? None whatsoever. I'm just an ordinary squaxx.

I'm going to have to defend David Bishop here. There was an awful lot of stories commisioned by previous Thargs that he had to run. Had to. It was paid for and completed and so there you go. He had to run two strips, every week, for years that he didn't commision. In his favour he took risks. Some of them didn't pay off. Some of them stank to high heaven, but he took risks which counts for a lot in my book. Plus under his tenure he got Wagner back on Dredd and commisioned the last bona fide classic Dredd 'The Pit'. He oversaw the creation of Nikolai Dante and Sinister Dexter and turned things around.

That's not to say Bishop was perfect. He wasn't. Anyone who read his recent 'Dead Men Walking' strip would tell you that. But he kept he comic afloat. For proof that he can edit a decent comic see his runs on the Meg where he had more of a creative hand.

Drokking rambling again, I know. I'm hopeful that this year will bring good things. Returning strips like Red Seas, Cabals, Lobster Random, Bec and Kawl, Avatar, Asylum, Bendatti Vendetta, Black Siddge are all welcome in that they are popular new strips earning a second or third run. Not all of them float my boat but alongside continuing stories like Anderson Psi, Sin Dex, Nikolai Dante, and Slaine & revamps like Savage, Young Middenface, Samantha Slade and the V.C.'s there's a varied line up the likes of which there's not been in years. But I'll stop going on and on and on and talk about some other comic now.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
00:38 / 08.04.04
I had a peek on the site earlier on and I've got to admit that it's got me interested enough to pick it up when the Spring Attack (original name) hits the shops, although I'm deeply suspicious of the return of Chopper yet a-fucking-gain and Mills still desperately retooling past glories. I *might* get the very latest, but only for the Shaun of the Dead strip - no fucker's going to get me to read any of the crap that caused me to drop it in the first place (that being the aforementioned Sinister Dexter, Durham Red and Rogue Trooper).

I'm being a really negative sod in this thread, aren't I? It's just that when you say that upcoming strips include Anderson Psi, Sinister Dexter, Slaine and Young Middenface (which name alone makes me want to sick up), it doesn't exactly suggest that the creative juices are flowing.

I seem to be slowly talking myself out of this purchasing decision. Plus, Rebellion still owe me £40 for Dredd vs Death.

Celebrity> It may not be a series, but I challenge you to beat the moment that Gambit's already mentioned:

 
  

Page: (1)23

 
  
Add Your Reply