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Film-spliced Sigils

  
 
sine
08:10 / 04.04.04
Just wondering if anyone (other than Coca Cola) has actually tried this, and whether they saw good results. Seems to me that if the order of the day is getting your magickal quarterback to run around the conscious mind's interference, then the Tyler Durdan method would show promise.
 
 
Joetheneophyte
08:55 / 04.04.04
I believe they have done it

Then again the average HollyWood blockbuster has enough product placement in it anyway that splicing is unnecessary and in my opinion less effective than just casual placement of Sigils

the Back to the Future trilogy is just one great big ad for Pepsi when you look at it (great films but the Pepsi logo is all over it)

Some people like Richard Bandler and John Grinder claim that they did subliminal hypnotic audio tapes and their findings disproved the effectiveness of Subliminals

they claim that they made all these tapes with subliminal suggestions on like "you are going to feel like shit today....really anxious and uppity and unable to relax"

they said they gave them to people and said they were relaxation tapes and the people often reported that the tapes made them drop off to sleep they were that relaxed


so presumably if Grinder and Bandler are telling the truth
Audio Sigils are not that effective

Visual Sigils I am not too sure about:

I have read that in the fifties in the US (sorry cannot remember the source so this is purely reliant on my memory) the cinemas would run such flash pages to get everybody to buy cola and popcorn. I believe there was a marked increase in sales. I will do a search and post the link later

This might mean that visual subliminals bypass the critical conscious mind better than auditory hidden messages

I do not know but I do think that once you look for it, product placement MUST be effective, otherwise why would Pepsi or other big companies spend so much money placing their logos in movies?

It is usually done in such a way that it is supposed to bypass your critical observing mind. Nothing to it.....just Michael J Fox swigging from a can of cola

But then the more you look, the more pepsi logos you see
and it all gets a bit dark. Advertising is one thing but this is a little bit more devious and as such should be brought to conscious awareness to at least allow us 'choice'

I suspect that it does work. Well Pepsi hasn't on me because I prefer Coke ..............

but maybe it is just that whereas I have noticed the Pepsi ADS ,,,,,I haven't noticed the Coke Sigils and they have got to me ? (Nahhhhhhhh I just prefer the taste...I think !)

there MUST be something to it, otherwise they would not spend such inordinate amounts of money getting their logos in films?


On a darker and more offensive point, I recently read a very thought provoking article (again, I cannot remember where, if I find it I will post it)

It was written by a fella who kept claiming he wasn't an anti semite but he definately had some anti Jewish sentiments (imo).

The article was about how the average American has no idea how many percentage of the US population is actually Jewish and how this figure is so out of whack because of the large percentage of TV shows, that contain or are about Jewish characters.

(I know this is the stereotypical slur against Jewish influence and at first I was equally turned off until I read the figures and these got me thinking)

By best estimates, Jewish Americans make up (if memory serves me right) between 1.9 and 2.9 of the US population
as a whole

When asked, the findings of Americans surveyed ranged but the average GUESSTIMATE was that Jews made up about 15% of the populace.

The Writer of the article went on to say that he believed that this was a result of the high number of Jewish actors and themes in American popular culture. He did accept that this might have been down to the inherent creativity of the Jewish people.....ie they are generally very talented and so make a disproportinate contribution to popular culture, something that history easily corroborates when you look at music, theatre and the movie industry

At first, I found this article interesting if a little unsettling, as I realised where this was headed and the inferrences it contained. It was borderline racist and there were many presumptions but it was well written and I kept reading.

Then even more unsettling was watching Friends, right after reading this article. The man who wrote the article had 'gotten to me' , against my better judgement.

Whilst there are three characters in Friends who are Jewish....all of a sudden, I couldn't help but notice the symbols of Judaism in the show

the coffee house where they drink had a Jewish candle holder in the background (forgive me the name of this eludes me at the moment) .......in other shows there were Israeli flags hanging for no specific reason .....I suddenly noticed how many police force emblems contain a star of David

there were all these little things I hadn't noticed before.

I am not criticising the producers and as the show is set in NEW YORK which has a high percentage of Jewish residents, it is understanable but this guy had definately achieved his aim in the article and now I cannot watch anything without noticing the Jewish artifacts popping into awareness all the time

Like the Pepsi logo, my mind seems instantly drawn to anything remotely Jewish in the background



I have tried to test myself and look for German flags or symbols....British flags.....you name it, I have tested myself to see that I am not just picking what I expect to see. I have noted a lot of Union Jacks etc but to date, nothing has struck me as much as the symbols of Judaism that I find in most things I watch

Robert Anton Wilson's darned 23 was the only thing that popped into my awareness as much as this

This man who wrote this article has turned me into a sort of Tele-Nazi....I have no intrinsic dislike of Jewish people....in fact the few Jewish people I have met or conversed with have been nicer to me than they needed to be but I cannot watch a movie or TV show without noting the background and scanning for Religious or political motifs


this article definately shook someting up in me and I cannot seem to shake it off. I still love 'Friends' (a terrible thing to admit I know) but I cannot watch it the same anymore due to this unsettling article


bizarre, upsetting and interesting all at the same time
 
 
sine
11:25 / 04.04.04
Thanks Joe, interesting stuff. Anti-Semites actually have a reason to be afraid if they are worried about the pervasiveness of Jewish thought: the best thinking of the 20th Century was Jewish in nearly every field. I love the idea that a technomagick the Nazis had first would get utterly co-opted by the people they intended to use it against...not that I'm by any means convinced there is a Jewish Conspiracy blurking behind the boobtube.

However, I should perhaps clarify for the thread: my question was targeted specifically at Barbelith members, by which I mean, is there anyone here who has used film splicing in their 'work? Not that I don't encourage any information on the subject, but I'm mostly curious about personal accounts.
 
 
Joetheneophyte
11:45 / 04.04.04
sorry

glad you found my post useful. I was a bit scared of posting that as I knew how racist it sounded. I am no fan of the Israeli Government but the few Jewish people I have known have never bore me any ill will and as I said, often have been more helpful than they needed to be. I work in a place frequented by a lot of Doctors.....one old Jewish Doctor in particular always stops by and asks how I am.....he's about 70 and deaf as a post, we then have this comical conversation where I try to tell him I am alright....I ask him how he is and he just cannot hear me....how he performs medicals I do not know!!!....I think he limits himself more to clerical work, writing reports etc

as for the film splicing:

Nope I have never done that, I haven't even ever owned a video camera.


cheers


Joe
 
 
Seth
12:00 / 04.04.04
so presumably if Grinder and Bandler are telling the truth

What are the chances?
 
 
Joetheneophyte
12:17 / 04.04.04
I don't know. Bandler must be the world's greatest self promoter but I cannot see what he would have to gain from lying about this.

Do a websearch for Dick Sutphen and Brainwashing and read the article. Then again Sutphen specialises in Subliminal tapes so he has a vested interest in promoting the effectiveness of Audio Subliminals

But it is an interesting read nonetheless
 
 
charrellz
16:12 / 04.04.04
sine:

Not in film, but I have in PowerPoint presentations (set it to auto-advance and set the timer for something around .0001 seconds) -results were less than impressive.

Joetheneophyte:
This info is paraphrased from my psych book:

Auditory subliminal messages:
There was a similar study in 1991 by Greenwald I think that showed almost no effect from subliminal tapes. The results that did occur were pretty similar to placebo effects, i.e. "Oh, I have this tape that is supposed to help me. I'm gonna do better now!" The tapes containing self-esteem messages would boost memory slightly if marked as helpful for memory, regardless of what was on the tape.


I have read that in the fifties in the US (sorry cannot remember the source so this is purely reliant on my memory) the cinemas would run such flash pages to get everybody to buy cola and popcorn. I believe there was a marked increase in sales. I will do a search and post the link later


In 1957 James Vicary put messages like "Eat Popcorn" in a film at a theater in New Jersey. Vicary claimed that popcorn sales increased by 58%.


As far as visual subliminal messages being better:
The basic consenus among researchers is that the messages affect you, but just barely. They can slightly alter the viewers general mood regarding the non-hidden subject, but not enough to make someone jump out of their seat and run to the consession stand. Also, the percentage of affected viewers is higher in a laboratory setting where the participant has to focus all their attention on the stimuli.
 
 
Joetheneophyte
17:37 / 04.04.04
There are so many knowledgable people on here

excellent

thanks

I have a memory like a Goldfish. I read something, know I have read it but cannot remember where!


cheers
 
 
rising and revolving
11:39 / 05.04.04
Charrellz : It's possible setting the auto-advance to 0.001 would actually result in the image never appearing. I don't know for sure how Powerpoint handles such things, but the average screen refresh is about every 0.02 seconds. So the reason for your subliminal tests being ineffective MIGHT just be that they never flashed up at all.
 
 
charrellz
14:56 / 05.04.04
chyrsalis:
It does actually bump the time a little slower, I don't remember exactly what. I would set the background as a differnet color on each slide so I would notice each one by the flashing color. I think the main reason it didn't work is that I'm just no good with sigils, or that I was aware that I needed to be looking for what I put in.
 
  
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