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Underground > Radio & Music >

Has Nick Cave Pissed On His Chips ?

03:52 / 03.04.04

Over the years, has Nick Cave become a bit, you know bourgeois, systematically removing from his recorded material everything that used to make him original and interesting ? Is he ever going to do anything good as Mutiny In Heaven or Saint Huck or Swampland ever again ? Or should he just get on with his sophomore novel, stop arseing around ? Or what ? Tragically enough, I'm not sure if I mind either way.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

07:14 / 03.04.04

I think that's a little harsh... okay, "Nocturama" has the first song he's ever written that I actually think is shit (Rock of Gibraltar), but "Bring It On" is fucking ace.

I think the thing is, he's getting older... and if you look back, each album's always sounded different from the one before. It'd get boring otherwise.

16:13 / 06.04.04

I like his newer stuff more and more as well... Nocturama is probably my favourite album of his... Does he really sing about his wife and kids?

...and I love Rock of Gibraltar, especially after he admitted that "We don't play this often as people think it's the worst song I've ever written." before he played it.

18:53 / 06.04.04

" Does he really sing about his wife and kids ? "

Well implicitly anyway. This possibly says a lot more about me than it does about Nick Cave, but I haven't really liked much since Let Love In, after which he seemed, either consciously or otherwise, probably a bit of both, to be making an effort to " mature " artistically -Fine in principle, but I kind of gave up after No More Shall We Part, more than anything else because the quality control seemed to go out the window, and the old obsessive Nick Cave seemed a bit, well, distracted, perhaps a bit too prone to putting out filler.

It's maybe not fair to blame all this on his domestic situation, but if anyone thrives on personal misery, it seems to be Cave - I don't remember the Good Son, Henry's Dream period with much affection either, and as I unnerstand it, he was happy round then, too.

Anyway, just a theory.

07:25 / 07.04.04

Frankie - do you like the Boatman's Call? He was certainly one miserable bastard at that time, and yet I would suspect that a lot of old schoolers would categorize that album in the "mature" quiet piano-playing period which is often associated with his current happiness. A paradox perhaps. But I think the songwriting on that album is amongst his finest.

I like all of his stuff except Nocturama. I can definitely see the "happy family man" aspect of No More Shall We Part, but I think the songwriting quality was still there on the whole. But Nocturama - argh. A couple of good songs but a lot of poor stuff imho. But whether that's actually low quality control or simply a difference of opinion between me and Mr Cave about what's a good song and what's not - who can say?

I'll still buy the next album though, so I guess I still have faith. I can forgive him one dodgy album. Big of me, don't you think?

10:45 / 07.04.04

I actually think 'No More Shall We Part' is quite, quite mad, and obsessive ('Hallelujah', for example). I think the references to his wife and children are a) not necessarily references to his real life wife and children and b) not exactly happy families either...

It is perhaps a little more introspective than the earlier stuff (as is 'The Boatman's Call', etc.) but I don't think that means it is any less disturbing.

Jack The Bodiless

12:04 / 07.04.04

Dude, this is symptomatic of the problem with the usual attitude to long-established artists - He Does Not Belong To You. You don't have to like everything he does. Come to that, you've just said that the only album of his you liked in the last, what, thirteen years, was Let Love In. Leaving aside the question of how much of a fan of his solo stuff you can say you are when you've only liked one of his last seven albums, and that one ten years ago, a lot of shit's happened to him in that period. I don't think your taste can accurately reflect upon him or his work.

In addition, none of us except him and a choice few of his family/friends can accurately speculate as to how his personal life relates to his music. Don't put too much faith in interviews - like most junkies/ex-junkies, Cave tends to lie a bit about his present position, and doesn't have a great handle on his reasons for doing things in the past, largely because he can't remember very well, his perspective being hopelessly skewed.

As for that paid entertainer thing - Jesus, we talking about Nick Cave or Robbie Williams, here? Paid entertainer, my arse.

13:56 / 07.04.04

Nick Cave fell off c. 'Boatman's Call'.

15:43 / 07.04.04

And you fell off c. your last post. Do engage, dear.

The Return Of Rothkoid

04:13 / 08.04.04

Dude, he has to be right. I mean, all music's been shite since Jim Morrison died, right?

Ahem.

12:49 / 08.04.04

He DOES belong to me, yes he does, me and me alone, and the sooner he realises this, gets rid of his wife and kids, gets back on heroin and starts making the kind of music I want to hear again, the sooner I'll be able stop hanging around outside his house, I suppose.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

13:02 / 08.04.04

I was about to post in total agreement with JtB there... only more vehement.

Only reading your last post and it brightening my day, I'll scale that down to just agreeing with Jack.

06:52 / 12.04.04

I originally hated Nocturama, but "Babe, I'm on Fire" might be the most energetic/frenetic/insane he's gotten since The Birthday Party. That song, if it is an indicator of what might come after it, could mean his next record will be the best since Murder Ballads.

00:02 / 14.04.04

Oh, all right. I was in a hurry, but felt it needed saying.

That album is all maudlin, and 'grown-up artist', and therefore really dull. 'Murder Ballads' was heading that way, but at least it was a concept album about murder.

It's funny because Tindersticks have always done that sorta stuff, but I think they're brilliant.

Don't understand the Jim Morrison comment?

Jack The Bodiless

11:46 / 15.04.04

Roth was taking the piss out of you and Frankie. Simple when you know, eh?

You don't like 'maudlin', 'grown-up' albums like The Boatman's Call, but you do like 'maudlin', 'grown-up' albums such as those produced by Tindersticks?

Dude, when asked to engage, it is usually considered better to respond by saying something of interest that contributes to the discussion, rather than making a statement that, on its own, leaves us even further in the dark as to what your beef is.

He didn't 'fall off', muppet. You just don't like his stuff anymore. Now, no offence, but why should I or anyone here care whether you or Frankie don't like Nick Cave's last few albums? I mean, if all you've got to say is that artist x, like, totally sucks now, and like, he's totally sold out, then I'm sure freddurst.com would love your input.

Incidentally, all the Birthday Party fans said the same thing when he released his first Bad Seeds LP. I'm sure all the smackheads said the same thing when he straightened out. And when Blixa left, well, that was a watershed moment, I'm sure he's definitely shit now, right?

Goons.

15:04 / 15.04.04

Jack, it would seem that you are being an unnecessary cock. I have a feeling this happens rather often.

I don't care that Nick Cave isn't a junkie anymore; good for him. I am not like these people you have possibly met, and apparently don't like due to some speciously imputed motives on their part. The album in question is dull, lumpen and trite. Tindersticks are not.

If I still had it, I might refer in greater detail. But I don't, so I won't.

Why should you care that I don't like him much now? I dunno. Why should I care that you do?

P.S. I will never give a fuck about Marillion either.

Jack The Bodiless

12:00 / 16.04.04

Oooh, saucy. Don't get all het up, little boy. I'm asknig you to actually post something of interest or get off the pot. You're still falling a little short there, birdboy. But then it looks like you ain't got much upstairs, so perhaps that's understandable.

This is a message board for people who THINK. Do you see? No, of course not.

14:20 / 16.04.04

Are you trolling me, assboss?

Super-childish.