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JLA/Avengers

15:07 / 31.03.04

i couldn't find another thread on this, so i figured i'd start one. has anyone been reading this? the big conclusion comes out today, and i find myself practically salivating. i've been surprised by how good this has been and how much i've been looking forward to it.

basically, it's what you'd expect in most respects. big cosmic threat involving big cosmic figures from both universes (in this case, Krona and Metron from DC and Grandmaster and Galactus from Marvel), threatening to unravel the fabric of spacetime blah blah blah. there's a scavenger hunt for various power items in both universes (GL's Lantern, the Infinity Gauntlet, etc), and of course the big meeting between the heroes of both sides becomes a massive donnybrook so we can see Superman vs Thor and Batman vs Cap and all that.

so, yeah, it's pretty much a by-the-book big crossover, but the key here is that it's a really damn good one. first of all, it's really fun and big and colorful and larger-than-life and full of iconic characters being iconic. but Busiek and Perez also have a really good handle on the characters involved, and so one of the usual problems with a big crossover (the lack of face time for any given character is drowned out in the sheer number of characters) is averted, because the moments that the characters do have are perfect. the interaction between Cap and Batman in particular, both in their battle scene and afterwards, is handled especially well.

they also devote a lot of time to looking at the differences between the DCU and the MU, instead of just treating them as basically interchangeable. essentially, the JLA basically regard the MU as some fucked-up dystopian parallel dimension, and the Avengers look at the JLA as a bunch of preening egomaniacs who interfere to much in the affairs of the people they protect and nearly allow themselves to be worshipped as gods (when Quicksilver finds out that they've got a museum in honor of the Flash he nearly pops a gasket screaming about how underappreciated he is).

so... am i the only one reading this?

15:20 / 31.03.04

No, I bought the first issue, and recently DL'd 2 and 3. Good fun; I'm particularily enjoying the thematic polarization between the aforementioned "universal difference" and the sheer old-school retro fun of the "Annual JLA-Avengers Meet". Cap and Batman was cool (Cap's given mad props in the book, and rightly so), and Thor vs. Superman was equally good stuff. The only thing I want to know is why exactly the two icons of ultimate boy-scout goodness HATE each other so bad. Seems... out of character. Superman shows more respect to Lex Luthor, for crying out loud, and the same with Cap and the Skull (in their respective titles).

Really like the attempt to explain why the DC and Marvel universes are "fundamentally incompatible". It's all summed up by Ben Grimm in the Batcave, really.

15:56 / 31.03.04

I'm particularily enjoying the thematic polarization between the aforementioned "universal difference" and the sheer old-school retro fun of the "Annual JLA-Avengers Meet".

all the cool retro flourishes are great, and all the weird dimension-bending weirdness of the annual meetups and other crossover weirdness (Hawkeye and Black Canary? that's just cold...). as far as the retro stuff, i'm kind of liking the roles of Hal Jordan and Barry Allen in this, and the fact that they seem to have to choose the possible future with all the bad shit that's happened to a lot of these characters in the past 10-15 years.

Cap and Batman was cool (Cap's given mad props in the book, and rightly so),

i just loved the way they sized each other up and tested each other's moves and countermoves, then dispensed with actually fighting. that was hot. i also loved the bit in the Batcave, where Cap asks about Jason Todd. i love that people who understand the characters will understand exactly what's on Cap's mind even though he doesn't mention Bucky. there's a very poignant unspoken moment there between characters who would respect each other's privacy enough to leave it unspoken, and i think it's fantastic that Busiek and Perez just trusted that to happen without trying to beat us over the head with it.

and Thor vs. Superman was equally good stuff.

i'm glad that Superman won, and i think he should have, but all the same i marked out like a drooling fanboy to see Thor lay Clark out like a punk at the end of #1.

The only thing I want to know is why exactly the two icons of ultimate boy-scout goodness HATE each other so bad. Seems... out of character. Superman shows more respect to Lex Luthor, for crying out loud, and the same with Cap and the Skull (in their respective titles).

have you seen the preview pages for #4? i have a theory, but it would be a spoiler from those pages.

16:33 / 31.03.04

YEAH.. this book has certainly had me feeling like a 12 year old!!!

(Hawkeye and Black Canary? that's just cold...).
If I remember correctly that scene is a throwback to the original Avengers Justice League crossover begun some 20 years ago.

Apparently, an editorial dispute about how those two particular characters where being handled in such a scene was one of the factors in having that project shelved for so long.

The BATMAN CAP scenes where Top notch... The appearance of BEN GRIMM was great!!!

The THOR/SUPERMAN thing was always gonna be sticky. Strangely enough isn't supperman suppose to be vulnerable to magic? I like how he's pure enough to lift Thor's hammer.

All the cosmic stuff is great. Kyle absorbing the power of the cosmic cube. FLASH having experience with Boomerangs (anyone remember the 1st year of Busiek & Perez's AVENGERS where they fought the SQUADRON SUPREME and Hawkeye used that same trick arrow on the WIZZER --the FLASH analogue). Hawkeye's attitude. QUICKSILVER!!! SCARLET WITCH's tapping into the DCU's Chaos power... I could go on!!! Makes me waht to take an early lunch break and hit the comic shop!!!

17:04 / 31.03.04

The THOR/SUPERMAN thing was always gonna be sticky. Strangely enough isn't supperman suppose to be vulnerable to magic?

that's always been a key aspect of the pro-Thor argument, and it makes sense in that the DCU's Captain Marvel can beat Superman because his power comes from magical sources.

I like how he's pure enough to lift Thor's hammer.

me too. so was Wonder Woman in the big awful Marvel vs DC crossover from the 90s. i love what seems to be the cover for #4: a battered-looking Superman with Mjolnir in one hand and Cap's shield in the other, looking ready to kick some ass. whoa, mama!

speaking of cross-universe nifty item wielding, i just about crapped myself when Darkseid had the Infinity Gauntlet, and i loved his dismissive attitude towards it when it didn't work in the DCU. it was like "hmm, well, i suppose you peons think this is important or something. here, take it, then get off my lawn."

05:57 / 01.04.04

My enthusiasm for this project was neglibible. I don't know what it is about me, but I've always despised the Avengers, though I enjoy reading about other people enjoying them in this context. Even when I was a child I couldn't find them interesting, no matter how hard I tried. I would chalk it up to the usual DC=Dad/Marvel=AngstyTeen equation, but the Avengers are pretty Dad themselves. Hm.

Darkseid w/ the Infinity Gauntlet makes me giggle like a child, though.

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

06:45 / 01.04.04

I'll be buying it as a book...the Big DVD style collector's version because I am SUCH a fanboy, but I didn't buy the mini-series. I am looking forward to Perez's work on it, since he is one of the few artists who has a very distinct way of drawing each character, so that they look completely different. He knows facial structure, and it shows when he draws multiple characters.

I am also amazed at how he can draw the SAME face for a character he hadn't drawn in over 20 years, as if he hadn't been away from the book for more than a week. He's really an amazing comics artist and knows the super-hero format better than anyone since Kirby.

12:47 / 01.04.04

It's out!! Who read it???

SPOILERS ahead

*****

Why is Supes worthy only in time of desperate peril but not worthy in regular ol' peacetime? That seems a little odd to me. I totally sound like a fanboy, I know, but ain't that the point of this mini anyway?

Supes turns the leadership over to Capt. America. Brilliant.

Capt. America vs. Prometheus was fun.

Supes feels he does too much for humanity, Cap. feels like he's never fighting hard enough for humanity. Beautiful contrast.

Barry and Hal talking about dying and legacies...nice.

There were some really, really great, fun moments in this book - combination of nice old-school fun and some nice character work.

More later. What did everyone think?

15:57 / 01.04.04

YAY!!!

This book took forever to read what with every details and charactor to be spotted from panel to panel.

LOVED the costume changes!!!

Particularly the scene with the ATOM & HAL JORDON/GREEN LANTURN. From Silver Age to Paralax (?) to modern age with the Atom's costumes changing as well... then he get's saved by the new Ant man!!!

Also an appearance of the most current Aquaman with the Water hand.

Then there was the Teen Titans and the Defenders!!!

All things considered, I was half expecting a meta-level panel with Animal Man remembering it was a comic. They also had that 3 panel Justice League Joke with the Hulk turning into some (unrecognizable) comic relief charactor then becoming Rocket Red who was always getting smacked down!!!

Thene there was that strange Marvel eternity DC Universe Tantric love scene... well almost.

Scarlet Witch and WASP rocked,just in their consistancy!

Iron Man jealous of GL's ring!!!

The Atlantian Imperial Battle cruiser.. kind of Phalic, but I guess that was inescapable. Then there was the DC super science techno jargen... "this wouldn't work in our world" Iron Man says... meanwhile Scarlet Witch is creating MAXIMUM PROBABILITY DISTORTION. (she should have been using a crystal ball for that)

Then there was that Strong hold made from GALACTUS's corpse!!!

I could go on . . .

18:10 / 01.04.04

Yeh, the stronghold made from Galactus' corpse & armor was fucking hard core.