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Underground > Laboratory >

Radiation exposure/mobile phones/ GPS and cars

18:13 / 30.03.04

I am not in anyway shape or form qualified in any scientific discipline so please be gentle with me here

I just have a little question that some of you more knowledgeable people on here maybe able to answer

here goes

I have heard that the use of a mobile/cell phone inside a motor car, can be dangerous due to something called the Faraday effect

Allegedly, the microwaves that a mobile/cell phone emits are bounced around the cage like interior of the car and as such, the driver is receiving a bigger dose than they would normally (out of the car) just holding the phone to their head.
I have also been led to believe that even if the phone is attached to the dash board, the effects of the ricocheting microwave beams inside the cage like car interior, are still dangerous. A guy in work said (I have no idea whether he is corect) that when receiving a signal, there is not too much of a problem but when TRANSMITTING, that is when the microwave exposure increases.

I believe that this problem can be alleviated if the cell phone is attached to an OUTSIDE ariel, mounted on the metal roof of the vehicle. In this way (allegedly, I do not know) the Faraday effect actually works in your favour and the radiation is directed to the outside of the metal cage

I was wondering whether anybody has any knowledge as to whether a Global Positioning type apparatus works in the same way?

I am planning in the medium term to become a taxi cab driver here in the UK. The companies all use GPS technology and this does worry me somewhat. I do not really want to be sitting in a cage all day, microwaving my innards. Admittedly, I know any exposure would be minimal but long hours even at comparatively low dosages is not something I relish

So I was wondering if any of you scientific like folk know anything about

a: Whether GPS systems work in a similar way to Cell phones (ie microwaves)

b: are they just passive receivers and does this matter with regard radiation exposure

c: Does an outside roof mounted ariel/antennae protect the driver/passengers?

Thanks

Joe

Cheap. Easy. Cruel.

19:40 / 30.03.04

The GPS reciever is a passive device, it does not transmit a signal. GPS satellites use high-frequency low-power radio waves. You are being bombarded with more radiation from your local radio station transmitters, which are powerhouses compared with these satellites. However, the taxi may be equipped with a locator beacon, which will be a transmitter. It will probably not be a microwave transmitter, due to line-of-sight handicaps.

Here is an interesting little article about how GPS works.

05:08 / 31.03.04

thanks very much

so they work on radio waves NOT microwaves?

I'm glad you explained the beacon as I was wondering HOW the taxi companies knew where you were, if the GPS was Only a receiver system.

So it seems logical to assume that the Beacon would be part of the GPS unit.
Again, please forgive my ignorance. I usually frequent the Magick boards, I know little about Magick and even less about Electronics.

So you believe that the transmitter is likely to use radio waves, rather than microwaves due to problems with 'line of sight'.

I am NOT doubting you , just struggling to understand. If line of sight is important and prevents the use of microwaves....how do cell phones get around this problem? is it because they use all these masts that are popping up everywhere

I know it is unfair of me to offer so little in the way of information of brand/frequency etc but I have not got it to hand and would priobably misquote the frequency anyway in my ignorance.

Any help or advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

one last question:

DOES THE ANTENNAE ON THE ROOF FOR RECEIVING AND TRANSMITTING SIGNALS, ALLEVIATE ANY OF THE THE POTENTIAL PROBLEMS AS THE GUY IN WORK CLAIMED?

I am sorry, I am totally lost. I read the GPS article that you posted and that did make sense but I go blank when I read more technical stuff so can I be a nuisance and ask that you or somebody explain what you mean and why microwaves are not the likely method of transmission for such a beacon?

Sorry to be a pain but I just go blank unless it is spelled out to me in really simplistic terms. I can only just manage to wire a plug!

Cheap. Easy. Cruel.

14:27 / 31.03.04

If line of sight is important and prevents the use of microwaves....how do cell phones get around this problem? is it because they use all these masts that are popping up everywhere?

Yes, that is exactly how they get around this problem. If you look at the second illustration on this page, you can see the line of sight problems with cell. Cell radiation is considered a non-ionizing radiation, it is in the upper end of the RF (Radio Frequency) band and the low end of the Microwave band.

From this page:

"Ionizing radiation - This type of radiation contains enough electromagnetic energy to strip atoms and molecules from the tissue and alter chemical reactions in the body. Gamma rays and X-rays are two forms of ionizing radiation. We know they cause damage, which is why we wear a lead vest when X-rays are taken of our bodies."

"Non-ionizing radiation - Non-ionizing radiation is typically safe. It causes some heating effect, but usually not enough to cause any type of long-term damage to tissue. Radio-frequency energy, visible light and microwave radiation are considered non-ionizing."

DOES THE ANTENNAE ON THE ROOF FOR RECEIVING AND TRANSMITTING SIGNALS, ALLEVIATE ANY OF THE THE POTENTIAL PROBLEMS AS THE GUY IN WORK CLAIMED?

Somewhat. The steel body panels of the car (providing that they are not fiberglass) probably provide some protection from electromagnetic radiation, much as a Faraday cage does.

One thing to keep in mind: Your cell phone emits less radiation at its highest transmitting power than a CB radio does.

Cheap. Easy. Cruel.

14:33 / 31.03.04

Whoops, forgot to address one point.

I am sorry, I am totally lost. I read the GPS article that you posted and that did make sense but I go blank when I read more technical stuff so can I be a nuisance and ask that you or somebody explain what you mean and why microwaves are not the likely method of transmission for such a beacon?

In order for the beacon to work using microwaves, the company would be required to have tracking towers all over the city, much like cell towers. If the company is leasing bandwidth from a cell company, they could concievably use a low powered microwave transmitter for the tracking beacon. However, cell bandwidth is prohibitively expensive. I tend to doubt they would do this when they can do much the same thing more cheaply with RF.

17:18 / 31.03.04

histrionic whack job

thankyou so much for your help

I thankyou for your help and all the work you have thus far conducted

cheers (I have had a few drinks tonite so i cannot comment in a lucid or effective way)

Joe

Cheap. Easy. Cruel.

18:14 / 31.03.04

No problem, I enjoy doing the research, and it beats work. Cheers! Drink a few for me.

04:21 / 01.04.04

thanks again

sober this morning!!!!!!!!

I have attempted to do the work myself but it is like trying to read calculus when you aren't even sure about arithmatic

I get so far into the text and then my brain fogs over. I am lazy by nature but even though I was motivated to find this out, my brain just cannot take with maths or physics

Reading about psychology or mind matters, I am fine but anything like 'hard' science just leaves me bewildered.

Thanks again

Joe

04:42 / 03.04.04

Hi histrionic whack job

I was talking to a cab driver the other day and he was moaning about how the new proposed GPS system they are introducing will be so accurate that he will not be able to get any peace!!!!

He hated the fact that his family could phone up the office and they could tell where he was at any given time!!!!

On a more serious note, he said that as well as the new GPS system, they will have a hands free phone

Whether this will work on Radio or microwaves I do not know. Presumably, as long as they phone is using the same antennae as the GPS (and taking on board your comments about the car roof where the ariel is mounted, being steel plated), then some protection is offered?

Cheap. Easy. Cruel.

13:29 / 06.04.04

Since there is a hands free phone incorporated into the mix, my best guess would be that it works much the same way as any of the newer model cell phones. The phone uses GPS signals to check where it is and then sends that information to the nearest cell tower. My cell phone (which is about a year old) can do this. Without actually knowing which equipment and which cell carrier they are using, I can't tell you exactly how it works or which frequencies it uses. However, if the antenna is on the roof, you should be fairly protected.

14:21 / 06.04.04

THANKS VERY MUCH

sorry to post again, I felt pretty guilty after I had posted that the other day as I knew what a recurrent pain I had been and also I realised that with such limited information to hand, the question was unfair.

thanks for your time and effort to date. So if it using cell phone technology, there is a chance that for this (if not the GPS) they are using antennaes and cell phone masts

Your words about the antennae being on the roof, STILL offering some protection were appreciated (not that I want a sanitised version but your opinion is valid and VERY WELCOME)

Joe