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Barbelith Growing Up? (Disinfo did.)

 
 
Tamayyurt
12:48 / 30.03.04
First off this isn't meant to make Tom feel bad or anything as I think he has no control of this and wishes Barbelith would grow as well...

But I was on Disinfo the other day and, man, they have grown up quite a bit. They've got a store where they sell a few books that they've published. They've got Diesel ads popping up all over the place! I went in a Virgin yesterday and saw a section only of their books! That little devil logo is really getting out there...

So the question is, why isn't Barbelith developing along similar paths? What's stunted our growth? I know we have a lot of talented people on here... is it that we can't get our shit together? I remember a while back we tried to produce a book and that quickly devolved into an e-zine and then just a quickly died.

What are some of your theories on this stagnation.
 
 
Grey Area
12:56 / 30.03.04
Well, you could start with the fact that disinfo had a purpose: to educate the masses about the degree of disinformation out there and raise awareness thereof. Barbelith doesn't really have such a purpose, or (and here's the important bit) a product. We're out to have a good time, discuss things that are near and dear to our hearts and belittle the occasional spammer that crops up. No product means no clever markting ploy which means no section in Virgin Megastores devoted to 'Lithware, no Diesel ads and no eventual public stock offering in BarbeCorp Inc.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
12:58 / 30.03.04
I don't see the stagnation. I see a message board that is evolving as a message board.

If I want to buy books, I know where to go. I don't come to Barbelith for that, although more than half the books I buy these days were recommended by Barbelith posts.

Why on Earth would we want Diesel ads or, God forbid, pop-ups? It's one of the good things about this place, that it's not larded with all the usual crap. I wasn't even that impressed when the Donnie Darko approval banner ran at the top of the site. I avoided seeing the damn film at the cinema because that pissed me off so much but that's just me being an arse, I guess.

I get what I come for when I come here and I go elsewhere for other stuff. The occasional bit of spamming when someone's involved in some art or has had something published is fine, and relates to the idea of personal recommendation.

I guess you're looking to more stuff like Queer Granny but I think linking to that off site is an elegant solution.
 
 
sleazenation
12:59 / 30.03.04
Does barbelith realy have a common purpose in a manner similar to disinfo?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
13:09 / 30.03.04
Blogs.
Queer Granny.
Jenny Everywhere.
Globalwatch.
Members' own boards.
Reviews.
Others which I've temporarily forgotten about.

Not exactly stunted. Although, that said, there does seem to be a sort of general apathy when it comes to contributing to these things.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:24 / 30.03.04
This is a joke, right?

You should see the post I decided not to put here.

God help us if we ever start wanting to be more like Disinfo.
 
 
Mr Tricks
15:25 / 30.03.04
well, taking the Wandering Notebook as a recent example, I suspect many of the people associated with Barbelith are here for recreation (I am) and thus tend to place secondary priority to the creation of something beyond there respective posts, blogs etc.

Of course there are plenty of opportunities to contribute to Barbelith beyond one's post... but that seems trumped by the D.I.Y. model of personal passion ...or not...
 
 
■
15:44 / 30.03.04
Yeah, we need to be more like Disinfo, then we could wait five minutes every time we open a page even on a broadband connection to read something that's lifted straight out of a newspaper.
[Puts on Matt Lucas voice]
Yeah, I want that one.
 
 
rizla mission
17:05 / 30.03.04
God help us if we ever start wanting to be more like Disinfo.

Indeed.

Disinfo's current state is absolutely appalling - it's terminally short on interesting content and the ad-clogged design makes what is there nigh-on unreadable.

So let us thank our heathern Gods Barbelith HASN'T gone that way.

I do think though, to take your thread title and run off in a different direction, Barbelith HAS "grown up", in the sense that for better or worse the general focus of the site has shifted considerably, and the range of interests of the average poster (assuming we can be said to have an "average poster") has changed quite a bit over the years.
 
 
Grey Area
17:25 / 30.03.04
I'm sure we could start an underground marketing campaign and get the Barbelith brand recognised as a pre-eminent presence in the counterculture segment of the interweb. I'm sure we could decide to put image before content and make sure everyone who posts here conforms to our free-thinking and individualist ideals.

I'm also sure that if we did this, we'd not have the active community we have now. Barbelith is an example of the rarest of rare sites these days: A site run for the benefit of a community with no attempt at milking it for profit and with no tie-in to a brand or corporation. May it never change.

Here endeth the sermon.
 
 
Tom Coates
17:58 / 30.03.04
So the question is, why isn't Barbelith developing along similar paths? What's stunted our growth? I know we have a lot of talented people on here... is it that we can't get our shit together? I remember a while back we tried to produce a book and that quickly devolved into an e-zine and then just a quickly died.

Okay. Let me tell you what I know about disinformation. Firstly Richard Metzger was employed by a large multinational corporation of some kind to develop the site. They were given a significant budget to get it going and they developed it accordingly to sit in the middle of the zeitgeist of the period - based on the interest in things like the X-files. The next thing that happened was kind of cool. Basically someone important came to see the product they'd made and suddenly went "Oh fuck! You've got stuff on here about God being a spaceman! I'm a Christian and more importantly this company has a Christian reputation! We can't be associated with this!" At which point - as I understand the story - they were going to shut it down, but instead sold it to Richard for a negligible amount of money.

Now Disinformation started straight out of the gate with a commercial purpose, with bills to pay and with a man who needed to make money out of the enterprise. It started as a company and has remained a company. And actually that's quite impressive. If you go to their site now you can see how much less content is on it now than was in the past. It's basically now a subcultural shop with some message boards and a limited amount amount of content (that's more of a weblog-style now than a webzine style) on the front. It's not the site it once was, but then that's hardly a shock - the advertising market for websites dropped enormously - almost catastrophically a couple of years back at the time of the dot.com crash. Their funding will be much lower than it was back then. They've done well to survive it intact.

But that's the core of the whole thing - it's a business! Barbelith is not a business, it didn't get initial funding to be set up, it has had no engagement with multi-national corporations, it doesn't take advertising and - for the most part - it's run by the community for that community and maintained and developed by me with occasional help from Cal. We have other jobs as well. I mean we could make this place into a business but I don't think we'd make any money out of it, and more importantly I don't think it would make the community any better. I think - in fact - it would make it way way worse.

Now I'll stand up straight away and say that I'd love to spend my time developing exciting and valuable online communities that are built for the good of the people who post on them. I can say with my hand on my heart that I could have made this place almost infinitely better than it is at the moment if I had nothing else to do with my time and God knows I wish I could have done so. It's one of the things that I enjoy (and excites me) more than anything else and I'm routinely aware that I'm not able to produce something of the quality that I'd like. Still I'm also actually vaguely delighted that the community is actually of the quality it is and I don't feel jealous of disinfo one little bit.
 
 
Tom Coates
18:02 / 30.03.04
Oh on the other hand, I'm not going to deny that I wish we could move more quickly and develop more stuff more effectively. Sorry about that. Maybe if every established member of the board (that's all four thousand or so) gave me ten quid a year rather than the fifteen people who do so at the moment I'd be able to make the place totally fuckin' awesome.
 
 
Bastard Tweed
07:04 / 31.03.04
Personally, it was the fact that it wasn't very "grown up" that attracted me to the board in the first place. Speaking as rank, un-asscandled newbie who probably irritates more often than entertains with these non sequitur posts, the rough edges encourage me to speak with the most honesty I can muster. The den-like quality only assures me that all of the others here are just as much a stunted, albino, lobster-like creature as I am. solidarity in our status as abominations against nature only encourages free thinking and I, for one, think that a "grown up" atmosphere would sully that.
 
 
■
07:21 / 31.03.04
OK, Tom, you got me. I use the 'lith more than any other web resource, so cash is coming your way. Do you take PAyPal?
 
 
adamswish
07:23 / 31.03.04
and get the Barbelith brand recognised as a pre-eminent presence in the counterculture segment of the interweb

Personally I thought the 4,000 (and rising) memebers of the board was testiment to Barbeliths status, image and presence already.
 
 
sleazenation
08:04 / 31.03.04
Oh and can someone please change the title of this thread to 'Barbelith growing up? otherwise I'm sure we will soon have a debate on what 'growning up' would entail.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:28 / 31.03.04
Spoilsport, now my "not waving but growning" and "the board certainly make me groan on occasion!" hilarity is all ruined.
 
  
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