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Underground > Art, Fashion & Design >

New Barbelith Design

  
  

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Tryphena Absent
13:02 / 29.03.04
So the board has changed significantly in the last 24 hours and the design and aesthetics are very majorly different so here's a thread to talk about how pretty or ugly you find it!

While I assume that it's going to take a while to settle in to, what are your first and second impressions of this new look? I like the bar at the top and the use of different shades and the front page is really striking. Opinions please...
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
13:25 / 29.03.04
I don't like the white bits around the edges - it looks, er, bitty. But apart from that I like it, though it makes the board feel rather fluffy.

The best bit is the font used for 'Barbelith Underground' at the top there. What is it? Very smart, especially with the fuzzy.
 
 
Pants Payroll
13:26 / 29.03.04
I really like it. On the main page, though, some of the smaller white text is a litle hard to read on certain colors. Font size could be increased if the forum summery was moved to the right and placed on the same line as the forum title. I've not been to the bar at the top, yet. Perhaps I'll pop up after work. See you there?
 
 
diz
14:59 / 29.03.04
i say thee again: SO. FUCKING. SEXY.

it's the new hotness. it's bright, clear, striking, and elegant. perfect, really.

the only niggling complaint i have is that i miss seeing the top three threads in each section, but it would look fucking stupid to put them up there with the current design, and i think the new design is hot enough to make it worth the trade-off.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
15:07 / 29.03.04
The current colour scheme is, I think, slightly different to what Tom was playing around with before - those areas which are currently grey/blue were previously a yellowish brown, for example. When it went live, the alterations to the scheme knocked me back a bit, but I really love it now.

Others don't - a few people have complained about the grey. Reading the 'role of the designer' thread got me thinking - what if there were some way of letting individuals select their own colour scheme? The layout and functional design remains the same, but everyone gets the opportunity to see the fora the way they want.

This is entirely theoretical, by the way. I'm sure implementing such a feature would take a ridiculous amount of work.

As an idea, though, it fits in with some of the stuff that was getting knocked around when we went to white/gold Barbelith about individuals getting the board they want. The only noticable way this came to pass in practice was with the ignore button. It's not entirely on-topic, so I'll shift this question in the mods want, but anyone got any thoughts on how to make a message board like Barbelith a different experience for each member, depending on their preferences?

As far as the current design goes, it's surprising how quickly you get used to it. The cutaway feel of the name column on the left bothered me originally, as did the posts appearing off-centre, but the more I post and read, the more I like it. It's individual, different. Fundamentally, it no longer looks like a message board. The cutout feel is enhanced by the Edit Post links - perforation is the new whatever the the new black was supposed to be last time somebody proclaimed there was a new black.

I've also mentioned how I disliked the formal, 'classical' feel of the last design. It created an atmosphere of dry, stale academia, which I felt was increased by the images on the main page. This is something else that I seem to be in the minority on, but I like that we currently don't have images, just simple blocks of colour. It's unfussy, straight to the point, but fun.

The same, I think, applies to the way that the posts are aligned on-screen. The left-of-centre placement has a kind of natural feel that's entirely different from the 'forced' centralisation (which felt off precisely because it only took up a similar portion of the screen to this). Again, using the blank space on the right-hand side for images, as I've seen suggested in the Conversation thread, would ruin the coherent feel, imo. Blank space enhances the clean, fresh feel. There's not enough blank space on the Internet.

In short (he says, having spent most of today posting about it) this all feels natural to me. The discarding of nearly everything from the old makes Barbelith feel new and funky again - we were stuck with one layout for far too long last time around, and the discussion suffered as a result.
 
 
ibis the being
15:25 / 29.03.04
The color scheme works for me, but I actively dislike the asymmetry of the design overall. In general I dislike a white background for any website, since I think projected-light white is very powerful and in large quantities starts to vibrate unpleasantly (I always change Word doc backgrounds to off-white for that reason). And the proportions are wrong, IMO. The text boxes' being off to the left combined with there being nothing (but brightwhite) on the right creates an imbalance that I feel really taxes the eye and the brain after a short while.

Any composition that features an off-balance weight like these text boxes naturally creates the visual need for a counterbalance. That can be used to deliberately unsettle a viewer, but why would you want to do that on a site meant for reading and thinking?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
15:31 / 29.03.04
This is odd - the background isn't white on my screen, but a lighter version of the blue/grey of Conversation and the Reply screen. If it was white then I'd probably agree.
 
 
Grey Area
15:37 / 29.03.04
Aesthetically, I can find very little wrong with this design. The perforated cut-away 'Edit Posts' thing annoys me more and more every time I see it though. Mostly because of the way it juts into the blank space on the right and breaks up the flow of the line. In the fora where I can moderate, the tag creates a nice balance to the left-hand side tags. (and also makes everything look like a stack of hats, which amuses me).

It occurs to me that one way to re-introduce the three latest threads thing that most people seem to be missing is to use some kind of floating pop-up that would appear in the blank space on the right. When you don't need it, it's just not there, and thus preserves the spartan, streamlined appearance of the main screen (No idea if this can be implented from a technical point of view). What's everyone's take on this idea though?

Although given this:
"2) New Topics on the front page - yup - they've gone and they won't be coming back in quite the same form as before. There is a possibility that I'll bring them back in some form in the next couple of weeks - it depends how much time and / or energy I have."

I believe Tom has a definite idea of how this is going to be implemented.


Someone in the Convo thread mentioned that this re-design looks Swedish, and that is a great way of describing it. This is how IKEA's bulletin board would look (of course, they'd have it in blue and yellow). If I take the metaphor a bit further, this redesign is like an IKEA shelf: It provides a neat, uncluttered and sturdy framework that the users can fill with content, while not being too obtrusive in itself and thereby distracting from said content.

On the images front, I think some sort of eye-candy might help out sometimes...but it needs to be done right. My first thought was of something similar to the images we had on the last design, but very faint and large in the background, like a watermark. That would help break up the big expanse of white that some people are objecting to. I can do without though. This site is neat, orderly, and above all: fast. It appeals to my Teutonic nature.
 
 
grant
16:35 / 29.03.04
Hmm. I was just reading the Switchboard, and the pale green really makes it seem less "newsy."
 
 
ibis the being
16:54 / 29.03.04
I like the idea of something like a watermark.
Minimalism can be beautiful and stimulating, but it can also seem dull, lazy, and/or cliched. I'm waffling over which this design is. Really, is any one piece of the site as satisfying as the front page - the one where you spend the least amount of time?

E. Randy, that's rather curious about the white/gray background - someone else in the Conversation thread mentioned the white messing their eyes up too. Anyone else seeing lt. gray rather than white? Incidentally, I have a glare filter over my monitor and it's still making me nuts.
 
 
Grey Area
17:22 / 29.03.04
It seems that the white background has been replaced with a grey one. At least, using the reply screen as a test, there is a noticeable difference in shade and brightness. The lighter grey background works well with the colours, although some people might feel that it darkens them a bit.

Does anyone else feel that the unbroken block of colour in the forum indices makes it harder to view the list of threads? Or would implementing the same light/dark shading as in the threads make the whole board look too uniform?
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
17:27 / 29.03.04
Strictly on the design tip, then.

It's a bit too stark for my tastes, though it's very modern/sleek. Too much white and grey. Watermarks/images might soften it a bit. The grey/white reminds me of filling in forms.

Reply boxes should match the fora colours - if the fora are going to be colour-coded, carry it throughout the design.

The IKEA/Habitat comparisons are pretty apt, I think. And if the aim is to streamline the aesthetics to 'focus' on the textual communication, think it succeeds. Feels a little *too* stripped-down to me.

do like the colours, but am similarly 50-50 on whether the minimalism is sleek or too IKEA for words...

Oh, but the way the 'edit post' boxes stick out - yiiiiiiiick
 
 
Ariadne
17:28 / 29.03.04
I agree with grant on the 'less newsy' aspects. Less serious all round - it feels a bit Playschoolish to me. In fact I like the gray forums more than I do the coloured ones. And the font is a bit annoying too. I'm trying hard to like it, really I am.
 
 
Grey Area
18:53 / 29.03.04
...you know, I can't see a difference between this font and old one. Might be my ignorance in terms of typography of course.
 
 
grant
19:08 / 29.03.04
I like the Edit Post tags because they're really obvious and they actually look like tags. But the comparison to kids' toys is kind of apt, with the colors.
It feels less like an information mainline and more like a massive burst of (artificial) fruit flavor!
Right now, it also feels less invisible, and I think good site design (for discussion or information gathering) should be as invisible as possible. This may change once I get used to it. Right now, I'm looking at the colors AND the words, instead of just the words.
They are pretty, though.
 
 
diz
19:44 / 29.03.04
Grey Area

Someone in the Convo thread mentioned that this re-design looks Swedish, and that is a great way of describing it. This is how IKEA's bulletin board would look (of course, they'd have it in blue and yellow). If I take the metaphor a bit further, this redesign is like an IKEA shelf: It provides a neat, uncluttered and sturdy framework that the users can fill with content, while not being too obtrusive in itself and thereby distracting from said content.

i think that the IKEA comparisons are apt. to me, that's a good thing: i loooooooove IKEA and their clean, yet sexy design sensibilities, made accessible for those of us who aren't uber-rich.

bengali in platforms

Reply boxes should match the fora colours - if the fora are going to be colour-coded, carry it throughout the design.

*nods vigorously* i agreed with this when i first read it, but almost didn't say anything, until i went to post the upper part of this post and the jarringly blue/grey reply window fucked me up. blech.
 
 
Grey Area
19:50 / 29.03.04
I think the choice of grey for the reply thing is a technical one...it's standard page that gets told which thread you're replying to and slaps your reply onto the end. I suppose that theoretically there's a way to make it mirror the colour of the thread, or even set up a reply screen for every forum, but this might be somewhat unwieldy.
 
 
The Strobe
20:00 / 29.03.04
I realised on the way home that the new colour scheme makes merchandising easier:

everyone, get knitting. Barbelith multi-coloured scarves.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
20:01 / 29.03.04
I think that's a technical issue - I'm fairly certain that the Reply page is generic because it's the same one every time. Dunno how easy it'd be to have the scheme alter depending on the link you press.

GA - I think the colour issue is caused by an illusion. The light blue/grey is obviously that on those areas of the board that have the blue/grey scheme, but not on others because the contrast is messing with yr head when the scheme is pink, green, etc. You can check it by looking at screen elements which are white, such as the search text box.

Even so, it's odd that people are finding the background glaring when the old design contained much more blank - and actually white - screen space. Is that maybe something to do with the asymmetric layout?
 
 
Grey Area
20:32 / 29.03.04
The thought that it's an illusion has struck me as well. However, the background in my bookmarks menu on the left is white, as it the highlighting of the 'reply' button in the threads. The background is grey compared to this white. I've also tried blocking off the coloured blocks in three fora, closing my eyes for thirty seconds and then seeing if there's a difference. Result: It still looks grey.
 
 
Olulabelle
21:18 / 29.03.04
The background is actually very slightly grey, but it looks white and indeed I thought it was white until I clicked on reply and saw the white box in which to type in. If you do that you can see the difference.

I do like the new design, but I have to say I preferred the old one, not because I don't 'do' change, just because the old one was so fluid and user-friendly. I remember thinking when I first joined how lovely it was to find a message board which wasn't all indented links and confusing titles.

This version, for some weird reason which probably no-one else will see, makes me feel a bit 'shut out' from the rest of the board. I know that probably sounds strange.

I also have a problem with the right hand 'wasted' area. I feel like I'm leaning left all the time. Am I being over-visual here?!
 
 
grant
21:24 / 29.03.04
No, I get that too.

I wonder if there's some secret significance to colors for topics. Like, it pleases me that magic is that vibrant green. It seems humorous that art & fashion is lavender.

Dunno.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
22:09 / 29.03.04
Out of interest, what resolution are people displaying at? I've just noticed that the post space doesn't seem to expand at all when you up your resolution, meaning that the grey ends up taking over the screen.

Just tried 800 x 600 and it looks centralised.
 
 
netbanshee
23:57 / 29.03.04
I thought the bgcolor was white too, but a little check on the style sheet showed that it was a light grey. Seems too this way or that... maybe a slight shift more towards grey will help the current look seem more firm and anchored than the grid floating here and there in space. The reply page seems to pull it off better with the blueish hue in the top bar and content as it cools down the whole layout.

Overall, the colors and breakdown of elements seem good. I wish there was a bgcolor for the section where the time of post is displayed. Seems too empty especially when the poster has a lot of text. Combined with the empty space to the right it appears slightly awkward.

Kudos on the type though... displays deliciously in Safari.
 
 
Pants Payroll
01:06 / 30.03.04
obedience experiment dizfactor :
the only niggling complaint i have is that i miss seeing the top three threads in each section, but it would look fucking stupid to put them up there with the current design, and i think the new design is hot enough to make it worth the trade-off.

I'd love to see a rollover function on the front page that would display the top 3 or 4 threads when your mouse was rolled over each forum title. I mentioned this in the convo thread, but nobody commented on it. Is this a crap idea?
 
 
Jack Vincennes
06:59 / 30.03.04
This version, for some weird reason which probably no-one else will see, makes me feel a bit 'shut out' from the rest of the board. I know that probably sounds strange.

I thought this as well, but am starting to think of the new design as being kind of like a book ; the front page is just the cover, and looking at a forum in like looking at a contents page. Might just be me justifying it though (because I like the new colours far more than the old design) as I really don't think that the 'edit post' tags are supposed to look like marginal notes.
 
 
Tom Coates
07:34 / 30.03.04
Reply boxes should match the fora colours - if the fora are going to be colour-coded, carry it throughout the design. Your wish is my command. This one has been done now. Enjoy.
 
 
Ariadne
08:24 / 30.03.04
ooh, so it has. very clever.
 
 
Dan Fish - @Fish1k
12:29 / 30.03.04
Could the thread titles maybe have alternate colours, like the posts, to distinguish them a little more?
 
 
Ariadne
13:12 / 30.03.04
That's not a bad idea, dan fish.

It's not immediately clear what you're looking at on the forum front pages, because the mod names, thread titles and thread starters all look the same, in the same (or similar?) font. Perhaps that's stuff that Tom's still working on.
 
 
Jack Vincennes
13:21 / 30.03.04
Incidentally, pants payroll, I like the idea of having the threads as a rollover -not sure how easy it'd be, but it'd certainly keep the page from looking cluttered (which is another thing I find pleasing about this design)
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:58 / 30.03.04
One thing I really like about the new look: I had forgotten, over time, how much I disliked the images we used to have on the front page of the site. The head and the scroll and whatnot - it was all very academic and unless my memory deceives me, I distinctly remember being told that these images were temporary, only for them to endure so long that they became part of the furniture. But like all unwanted furniture, once you finally get rid of them you breath a huge sigh of relief. Please, if images are reintroduced, let them have some relation to the content of the board/forums...
 
 
Mr Tricks
17:05 / 30.03.04
I posted some of this on the FUNCTIONALITY THREAD

I actually like how the "moderate this post" pops up on the right side of one's last post. It helps one find their last post and one can then read on from there.

The left of center column wasn't apparent to me until it was mentioned here & I closed my browser's side bar. I like how it aligns with the BARBELITH title. and I'm not too worried about the negative space on the right as it's only really apparnet when my sidebar's closed.

In terms of the most recent posts I'm curious if text about the size of the topic's sub-head could be placed in the space to the right of the title. This could fit 2 perhaps 3 lines of text? perhaps with a verticle rule to help break up the huge horizontal span. The floating menue thing is theoreticly possible but might overly clutter the main page.

I keep wanting to experience some sort of vertical dynamic to offset the overarching horizontal theme. I'm not sure how that could help the functionality once one is in a particular forum. Perhaps the listing of moderators can be placed in a vertical column to the right?

I do like the shades of grey in the reply page over the white on the forums itself. I do agree with grant's comment on the light green in the switchboard and am also concerned about black text on a red background in the comics forum. I actually LIKE the bluegreys in the Policy, Conversation etc.

I'm getting used to the colors in general, but would like to see more than the white/light grey backgrounds serve as a consistant theme. I wonder if it would make sence to have the main horizontal title bar be the rainbow color with a secondary accent color introduced to the left and right of the central column. The central column could then perhaps remain in the bluegrey tones or pick up the pale greys of the upper most banner.

Between the header space and the list of moderators there seems to be alot of space occupied before one gets to the actual content. This is especially of concern on the front page where (in my browser) the listing of forums is cut off at BOOKS.

I've seen and worked on sights that allow a registered user choose from a set of "themes."
for an example of how this works check out the following sights. They all use the same basic construction but use different theme elements. Once regestered a individual user can (in theory) make one of these sites look like one of the others:
anarchist library
tathata.org/
sacredroad.org/
kooshkingdom.com/

Upon previewing my post I think I feel more convince that the central column should use the light greys of the uppermost banner leaving the Horizontal title bar to maintain the primary color. Maybe just the left smaller column could carry a secondary ligther color...

The linked text would then be more apparent.


Hmmm I just realised that hyperlinked text appears differently on the previews page than it does once posted...

anyone else notice that?
 
 
ibis the being
18:37 / 30.03.04
Even so, it's odd that people are finding the background glaring when the old design contained much more blank - and actually white - screen space. Is that maybe something to do with the asymmetric layout?

Aha! It's coming together for me now. The reason I never realized that is because as I said I change all the whites to cream on my computer.

Today I'm at a cybercafe and have a better idea what's going on. Now I see the background is technically speaking gray - but for all intents & purposes, it's white, come on now. It looks white, it seems white, it's as blinding as white. I still insist a 20 or 30% gray would be less taxing on the eyes but maybe I have freakishly sensitive eyeballs or something.
 
 
grant
18:49 / 30.03.04
On Day Two, the colors seem a little more "invisible" and the space to the right is less pushy.
Having the reply boxes fit the color scheme seems to go a long way towards making the colors less visible, which I wouldn't really have expected.
 
  

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