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Help stop esso (please)

  
 
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02:56 / 27.03.04
These people really are fucked, here's a link : Stopesso
 
 
rizla mission
09:21 / 27.03.04
Tell us something we don't know.
 
 
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09:38 / 27.03.04
Have you joined the boycott that's in the link? Apparently there's a million that's done it already, i expect it to rise and rise.

Oh, and i also expect that there's a lot of suits in that company with fucked karma.
 
 
Tom Coates
09:56 / 28.03.04
The Stop Esso campaign has had a lot of help and support from various web-friends of mine who have tried really hard to help them mobilise and do good effective things online. I can wholeheartedly recommend getting involved in this campaign if you feel strongly about it - they're good people and they're also quite effective.
 
 
admiraladz
10:30 / 28.03.04
If I have to listen to any more tree hugging hippies rant on about global warming caused by fossil fuels I swear I'm going to SCREAM!

The daily output of greenhouse gasses generated by bovine herds for domestic consumption is much larger than ALL GLOBAL fossil fuel use put together. In other words if you really really believe that greenhouse gasses are responsible for global warming (and hell I won't stop you even to remind you that the average annual temperature in the UK was HIGHER 1000 years ago than it is now) then why not bouycot meat production with the vigour you attack multi-national corporations?

...or does that interfere with your lifestyle too much? Or maybe the targets aren't as much fun - I mean it's not fair to pick on your local farmers when we can attack big business instead, after all they don't have wives, families, or feelings - do they?

All I can say is try to remember what happend to Dr Kelly. Don't pick scapegoats, don't use stereotypes, ..oh and don't talk to me about things you clearly know NOTHING about.

Go back to reading your UFOlogy books and David Ike's website. Keep telling yourself you don't buy into that crazy sh*t, that this isn't the temple of your age.

It sells as well as pornography, but the difference between the real TRUTH and these ideas/thoughts/movements is more or less the same as the difference between real love and pornography.
 
 
admiraladz
10:32 / 28.03.04
... btw what ever happened to that big hole in the ozone layer we though was going to kill us all?

Oh yeah it fixed itself and all the scientists shut up about it and tried to pretend they weren't the ones scaremongering.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
12:27 / 28.03.04
The daily output of greenhouse gasses generated by bovine herds for domestic consumption is much larger than ALL GLOBAL fossil fuel use put together.

Figures, sources, specifics, please. Although I don't necessarily disagree. It's also true that beef farming is one of the most energy-intensive kinds of food production, requiring high-quality land for moderate food yield.

In other words if you really really believe that greenhouse gasses are responsible for global warming

I don't 'believe' it, but it is now the consensus among those who are in a position to know - the IPCC and even the Pentagon. The counterpositions are interesting, but mostly not very convincing.

hell I won't stop you even to remind you that the average annual temperature in the UK was HIGHER 1000 years ago than it is now

Not relevant. Local changes in temperature can have any number of causes. Global average is on the rise in a big way - again, see the IPCC report.

btw what ever happened to that big hole in the ozone layer we though was going to kill us all?

It's still there. Efforts were made to stop it growing - including the banning of CFCs and so on. Sadly, other chemicals with similar effects were not banned - largely due (shock) to the lobbying of those big corporations you mentioned.

You seem a bit emotional on this topic. What's your beef?
 
 
Loomis
13:06 / 28.03.04
why not bouycot meat production with the vigour you attack multi-national corporations?

I do boycott meat production. Does that mean I have your permission to go after Esso?
 
 
sleazenation
13:15 / 28.03.04
No Loomis, it just means you are 'a tree hugging hippie'.
 
 
Loomis
13:20 / 28.03.04
Well you've seen me after a few beers Sleaze - I hug everybody in sight. But when the people start to run away, I have to go for the trees 'cause they can't escape. Mmmm ... scratchy.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:58 / 28.03.04
Even though Admiraladz has expressed himself impolitely, this is still a Revolution thread - could we address the issues, rather than simply taking the piss out of the idiot?

Admiral - Tycho has asked you to substantiate any of your claims. Be so good as to do so. While you're there, it might be worth looking at some of the other issues apart from climate change, such as the influence oil companies are exerting on national politics - ExxonMobil in the UK is one such, but Shell in Nigeria is clearly another one. This all mgiht tie back into that nice Libya question...
 
 
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16:07 / 28.03.04
If I have to listen to any more tree hugging hippies rant on about global warming caused by fossil fuels I swear I'm going to SCREAM!

The daily output of greenhouse gasses generated by bovine herds for domestic consumption is much larger than ALL GLOBAL fossil fuel use put together.


Who the fuck are you?

You obviously don't know much about me. I'm not a tree hugging hippie but i'd rather listen to one of them anyday than read your shit.

All I can say is try to remember what happend to Dr Kelly.

Are you trying to fucking frighten me, you freak?! Bring it asshole. I don't swallow that type of crap i'm (not) sorry to say.

It sells as well as pornography, but the difference between the real TRUTH and these ideas/thoughts/movements is more or less the same as the difference between real love and pornography.

WTF!?! Do you think you know the real truth? Well you'd be a lot wiser than to spew this shit if you did, so i'm assuming your wrong.

Go back to reading your UFOlogy books and David Ike's website. Keep telling yourself you don't buy into that crazy sh*t, that this isn't the temple of your age.

I don't believe the stuff on David Icke's website is correct so why would i? Why do you assume that's what i'd do? As for UFOlogy books, i'm more into books on Magic, but thanks.

Grow a fucking brain before you go judging people.

(and hell I won't stop you even to remind you that the average annual temperature in the UK was HIGHER 1000 years ago than it is now)

Oh, your an ancient one aswell now i see. Don't go assuming that just because science says, it's fact.

There, did you enjoy that? Right back atcha. (if you didn't, don't go winding other people up so much.)


Methane concentrations in the atmosphere have more than doubled in the past century, with cattle accounting for about 20% of the pollutant, scientists say.

www.mycattle.com
 
 
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16:09 / 28.03.04
The company that has done more than any other to keep the US hooked on oil is Esso (known as ExxonMobil in the USA). This addiction is causing global warming.

Esso has spent the last decade sabotaging international action on climate change and directing US climate and energy policy. Esso paid the Republicans $1.2 million up to the 2000 elections - and sure enough President George W Bush pulled the US out of the international global warming treaty, the Kyoto Protocol.

Esso has consistently questioned the accepted scientific consensus that burning fossil fuels like oil is causing global warming. It is still misleading the US public and policymakers over the economic implications of tackling the problem.

It funds 'industry front groups@ to lobby on its behalf. In turn, they promote climate sceptic scientists to question the science of global warming. If Bush was acting on climate change, he'd be curbing the US addiction to oil.

Esso has a history of misleading the public and its investors by using selective, outdated or incorrect scientific studies. A scientist who authored the report on temperature data for the Sargasso Sea, which is used by Exxon to refute the claim that global warming worldwide was happening, has said "I think the sad thing is ExxonMobil is exploiting the data for political purposes."

Lee Raymond, Esso's CEO, has made his case elsewhere by citing a petition signed by "17,000 scientists" dismissing global warming. The petition had already been discredited, after it was found not to have been organised by climate scientists and to have misled recipients into thinking it came from America's respected National Academy of Sciences, which it did not. Signatories included fictional TV characters.

stopesso
 
 
rizla mission
16:25 / 28.03.04
If I have to listen to any more tree hugging hippies rant on about global warming caused by fossil fuels I swear I'm going to SCREAM!

If I have to listen to any more argumentative free-market warrior types rant on about highly dubious sounding "proof" that global warming has nothing to do with fossil fuels and is all 'perfectly natural', in a patronising "well obviously any reasonably intelligent person can see that! It's all a lot of bloody hysteria!" type manner, I swear I'm going to SCREAM!

I was under the impression that the ice ages and other vast, ancient geological changes you refer to were extremely slow processes, changing the earth's temperature over a period of, say, thousands of years rather than, er, decades....?
 
 
admiraladz
12:36 / 01.04.04
You seem a bit emotional on this topic. What's your beef? Tycho Androgyny

I guess I am a little emotionally attached to this one. I’m just sick of your average vegetarian (who still eats fish and occasionally chicken!) telling me that because I choose to drive my car around I am damaging the enviroment for them. I accept that to a degree I am, but they use gas to heat their houses, and have fluoride in their water, they have a petrol lawnmower, or buy strawberries from South Africa at the cost of a few tonnes of aviation fuel. What I guess I’m saying is that if someone wants me to respect their views, and to change mine to align with theirs .. then the least they could do is have the decency to a) EXPLAIN their ideas to me instead of assuming I should know them, and b) lead by example .. if you want to change the world, you can’t just change the bits that are convenient for you.

If esso is wrong then aren’t shell and BP and the rest? Then maybe we should boycott all of them, not just one. It’ll have much more of an effect.


I do boycott meat production. Does that mean I have your permission to go after Esso? Loomis

Absolutely. I have no problem with people who have their own agenda and ideas if they stick to them. I just hate it when you find a lot of people who previously were your biggest critics suddenly jumping on your bandwagon just to get a lift on to the next one.

Even though Admiraladz has expressed himself impolitely, this is still a Revolution thread - could we address the issues, rather than simply taking the piss out of the idiot? I'm Starskey, he's Haus

(discussion) Now I may be out of line here, especially seeing as many of the other members of this forum seem to think I’m guilty of the same thing … but I’ve only posted in a few ‘fora’, and on each occasion I have been subjected to abuse by you Mr Haus. Now you have sunk to the lowest. This is no more or less than ridicule, not an argument, not a debate, and not an Idea. You merely posted a “lets get back on topic” reply so that you could call me an idiot. Please in future don’t reply to any of my posts and I’ll stay out of yours. I get the impression you are a very intelligent but jaded person who thinks that by belittling others you can recruit people to your cause. Frankly I have no desire to enter into discourse with a person like you. You’ve clearly had a humour bypass. (/discussion)

I was under the impression that the ice ages and other vast, ancient geological changes you refer to were extremely slow processes, changing the earth's temperature over a period of, say, thousands of years rather than, er, decades....? Rizla and the Ultraviolet Catastrophe

Fair enough, although 1,000 years ago was 1000AD and nowhere near an iceage, it sounds like you may be better researched on the subject than I, however your post came after mine so I can’t really be expected to know that this debate is clearly well underway and a follow on from a previous discussion .. can I?

Who the fuck are you? Zen Memetic

Aha! Found the rant you mentioned in the other thread. Errr well I like people who speak their mind. Incidentally I wasn’t trying to frighten you with the Dr Kelly point – it had already frightened me! I am worried that as we attack large global corporations they will have to appease our desires for reform .. and in the subsequent witch-hunt weed out anyone at high level who doesn’t agree with the “rule the world” master plan and make them a scapegoat for all the fat cat’s who really should be getting the kicking – maybe should have said it like that instead (note to self – stop after 3 posts a day as I clearly begin to get too emotional)

WTF!?! Do you think you know the real truth? Well you'd be a lot wiser than to spew this shit if you did, so i'm assuming your wrong.

The first step to curing an addiction is to admit that you have an addiction. My first step to admitting ignorance is by showing my ignorance, and if my ignorance annoys you then explain to me where it lies. The next post you made was very insightful and interesting .. if that had been the first post in this thread instead of These people really are fucked, here's a link : Stopesso I might well have reconsidered the tone and content of my post.

..and finally, point taken There, did you enjoy that? Right back atcha. it’s not the easiest kind of post to form a coherent response to, and I guess it doesn’t really inspire the patience to even begin. I apologise for the generalisations and the offence I clearly caused, and if I thought Haus actually cared, I would go back through my University notes and try to find the source for that bovine quote.

Maybe I should just stick to my own posts, that way at least I won’t be worried that I’m walking in during the second act.
 
 
ibis the being
12:49 / 01.04.04
I was under the impression that the ice ages and other vast, ancient geological changes you refer to were extremely slow processes, changing the earth's temperature over a period of, say, thousands of years rather than, er, decades....?

Actually, that's quite untrue. If anyone's interested, the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute's website has a really fascinating section on Abrupt Climate Change.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
13:57 / 01.04.04
Admiral - I'm glad you chose to answer one of my questions, but a little sad that you chose to answer the rhetorical one. Perhaps you might engage with the substantive ones?
 
 
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15:20 / 01.04.04
Yeah sorry i should of said that the information was in the link.

As for Haus, if you carry on getting annoyed by him give him two warnings and then ban him, i think he's one of the newbies.

  
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
21:08 / 01.04.04
So far this thread is long on abuse and short on facts. However, Admiraladz appears to be cycling through the insulting and attention-seeking stage to the affronted and earnest stage, so perhaps he might want to address, as Tycho suggested, the IPCC reports on climate change and its origins. At this point I would suggest that in suggesting that fossil fuel burning has a statistically minor effect on climate change he is flying in the face of the vast majority of scientific opinion, so I *would* certainly care to see where the arguments he espouses are coming from. After all, we might be being misled.

Vegetarianism and the land consumed by ranching cattle is not really within the scope of the topic, although might make a good spin-off, so a more productive line of inquiry from his post might be the question of why Esso in particular. Is it that Esso is *particularly* active in lobbying to the US and other governments? After all, if it was doing any good, presumably other oil producers are also going to be doing it as well, as capitalism rarely rewards a principled stance on lobbying? Royal Dutch/Shell has already cropped up in the discussion of Libya, which some might take exception to - this is all ultimately the fault of the relationshop of capital and government rather than a single oil company, yes? If so, then logically one should indeed be doing everything in one's power to separate oneself from consumer sponsorship of *all* hydrocarbons. To visit the activism element of the Switchboard, does anyone have suggestions on how best to do this? Assuming that one is not given permission to do so by a phantom crowd of hypocritical vegetarians, presumably not owning a private vehicle is one step. Renewable energy sources? Lobbying your bank? Investing in ethical funds? Protest? What's the recommended next step.

{Admiraladz - this persecution complex is unlikely to get you very far. You have clearly been keeping score more carefully than I, but recently I have responded to your stream of unevidenced vitriol here, which has indeed resulted in the rotting of the thread, an attention-seeking post in l33tspeak in the magick about how magick did not exist, also predicatbly followed by a late scramble for the high ground, and a post in the Head Shop which suggested that those who disagreed with you were proably nonces which was honestly and frankly beneath my contempt. If you are still having trouble finding the FAQ, they are here. You may find them useful, particularly the section on Barbelith etiquette.)
 
  
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