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Woman charged with murder for refusing a Caesarean section

 
 
Cheap. Easy. Cruel.
15:33 / 12.03.04
This news article came to my attention today and really just pissed me off. The woman in question refused to get a C-section because of the fear of scarring, resulting in one of her twins being stillborn. She is being charged with murder.

Is it a mother's right NOT to have a child, even if the baby could live outside the womb? Do you feel that this is a case of the pro-lifers taking it too far, or is it murder? Obviously, under the law, the mother has the right to terminate the pregnancy. The question, really, is when does that right cease?
 
 
sleazenation
15:51 / 12.03.04
This case goes further than the old pro-life pro-choice debate. In this case the doctors advised the woman in question to have a c-section and she declined which lead to the still birth of one of her children - The case against her would seem to revolve around its her refusial to follow medical advice and equating this as a wilful act of violence- if she is convicted, the implications could be huge ...
 
 
Cheap. Easy. Cruel.
15:57 / 12.03.04
Yes, the implications could be huge, sleaze. At what point do we draw the line? If I have a rare blood type that could save lives, am I to be charged with murder for not donating blood? Should one be forced to have an elective medical procedure in order to save a life, or for any reason?
 
 
HCE
16:59 / 12.03.04
What kinds of medical procedure aren't elective? What constitutes a medical emergency?

Other than conjoined twins, I can't think of another example of two people -- one body. Multiple Personality Disorder?
 
 
Cailín
17:18 / 12.03.04
As it stands, it seems that the state is reluctant to allow preganat women to make decisions which may harm their babies. On occasion, the state has stepped in on the behalf of a fetus or a minor child, when parents are making medical decisions deemed to be "not in the best interests of the child", whether for religious, moral or other reasons. In these relatively rare cases, the court assigns a guardian to make these decisions. In this case, the mother was not arguing a religious, moral or ethical principle. It's difficult not to allow tempers to take over and call her every horrible thing I can come up with. At best, I can say that if her main concern was a scar, then she was no mother.
Various states have different legal definitions of when a fetus becomes a person. Since it would be homicide for an outside party to cause the pregnancy to end without the woman's prior consent, it could be argued that it is also homicide if the woman causes her own fetus to die as a result of her actions. I think this would qualify as negligent homicide. Since third trimester abortions are seldom performed, unless the mother is at significant risk, I think it's safe to say that most courts would hold that the fetus is a person after about 6 months.
Hypothetical: if this woman had already given birth to her twins, and one of them needed sugery to survive, could she refuse treatment and let the child die on the grounds that she didn't want to be seen with a scarred child? Would she not be prosecuted for that? Would we even be having this discussion?
 
 
Grey Area
17:40 / 12.03.04
The problem lies with that undefined area of when a foetus can be deemed 'alive', as in debates about abortion. As it is presented, the case seems fairly straightforward, but what if the woman turns out to have a phobia about surgery? A psychological barrier such as that could lead to actions such as this woman has undertaken, due to a possible perception on her part that the baby isn't yet 'alive', ie: born.

I read this case as causing death by negligence...but with a psychological background that is unreported in the article.
 
 
Cheap. Easy. Cruel.
18:39 / 12.03.04
Here ia another article about the case. This one alleges that she has a long history of mental problems.

Quote from the article:

The case could affect abortion rights and open the door to the prosecution of mothers who smoke or don't follow their obstetrician's diet, said Marguerite Driessen, a law professor at Brigham Young University (search).

"It's very troubling to have somebody come in and say we're going to charge this mother for murder because we don't like the choices she made," she said.


It is a far out case, but it could set us on a slippery slope of government mandates concerning exactly what a woman can and can't do while pregnant and during childrearing.
 
 
sleazenation
22:17 / 12.03.04
callin said

it could be argued that it is also homicide if the woman causes her own fetus to die as a result of her actions

But this woman didn't cause her foetus to die through her actions - crucially it was through her inaction.This decision would seem to be the state dictating a medical proceedure upon its citizen.
 
 
Cailín
23:37 / 12.03.04
True enough. Although her decision to ignore the doctors and wait it out instead could in and of itself be considered an action. But enough semantics. The issue of mental illness complicates things, although there is a pretty big difference between what many commonly hold to be "crazy" and actually criminally insane.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
23:48 / 12.03.04
I would say it's her right to refuse surgery, even though I personally think her reasons for doing so are incredibly selfish.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
09:53 / 13.03.04
It sounds selfish, the way it's been reported. But a C-section carries more risks than just the cosmetic side of things: it's a hugely invasive procedure, which can have long-term effects on the woman's health. Women who have C-sections can go on to suffer ectopic pregnacies and can be unable to have children in future.

Seriously, this is a bullshit case.
 
 
Cheap. Easy. Cruel.
16:16 / 18.03.04
Christ on a cracker! This story just keeps getting better and better. It seems that this woman could have been the poster child for mandatory anti-psychotic meds. linky
 
 
panthergod
20:28 / 18.03.04
they should lock her up and destroy the key.
 
 
panthergod
20:29 / 18.03.04
and yeah, if she refused the c-section for a scar, then she's a murderer.

hell, i would have put her under and done it anyways if i was one of the doctors.
 
 
Cailín
20:47 / 18.03.04
This opens up a whole other idea for me, and I wonder what anyone else thinks about it. Here goes:
Since this woman has a history of child endangerment, and has already given up/lost custody of her two older children, should she be sterilized? I bring it up, because in some places chemical castration is mandatory for paroled pedophiles - should the standard extend to unfit mothers? (Bearing in mind that her surviving baby from the twins pregnancy tested positive for cocaine and alcohol, and the prior conviction for beating her toddler.)
Another spin on it is a hideous story my sister told me, about a woman in her city who has been determined to be an unfit mother, so every time she show up at a hospital to give birth, the police and Children's Aid are called to take custody of the child. This happens about once a year, because she really believes that one of these days they'll let her take a baby home with her. Since she will never, ever be allowed to take a baby home, and if she comes to grips with that, she may potentially try to have one without medical intervention, and hide the child from the authorities. Would the situation best be served by terminating her ability to get pregnant?
And yes, the idea of involuntary sterilization is, on the surface, repugnant to me. But as a strictly pragmatic (and maybe a little Orwellian) solution, how does it rate?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
23:31 / 18.03.04
I think that's been the subject of a few Headshop threads - there's one here.
 
 
William Sack
12:28 / 19.03.04
Forgive me if I don't touch the right to breed issue with a bargepole.

Just a couple of quick points on the c-section issue. Sleaze is right that many jurisdictions draw distinctions between acts and omissions, the latter rarely giving rise to criminal sanction. There are exceptions though, especially in the area of child protection. As well as being prosecuted for acts (violence etc.) against children, parents are routinely prosecuted for omissions (eg. failing to feed, clean, or otherwise adequately care for their children). I think the rationale is that there are certain relationships between "perpetrator" and "victim" where it is felt necessary for the law to impose an obligation to act (which is essentially what criminalising omissions does.)

The law of Utah certainly allows for prosecutions for *acts* towards unborn children - witness the prosecution of the woman in respect of the cocaine and alcohol in the surviving child's bloodstream. Should there be a liability for omissions? In principle I can't think why not. The crucial issue seems to be whether or not to criminalise an omission where to act would involve a risk to the mother. I really can't resolve that issue in my own mind, and it's complicated by personal experience.

A word on risk - Mordant is right to point out that c-sections carries risks above and beyond the cosmetic. However, these are risks to balance against those that affect the unborn child(ren.) As a cold risk-balancing exercise you are balancing a reasonably low risk of non fatal harm against a moderate to high risk of fatality or serious injury. Most women (my wife included when she was advised to deliver our twins by c-section) opt for the procedure.

Should the woman be prosecuted for murder? I don't think so, but I don't know the implications in Utah for a murder conviction; in England it means a mandatory life sentence. Should she, or others who do the same, be prosecuted for something? My gut says yes even though, yet again, it would probably mean in practice that the law would impact on the desperate. Whatever happens I would hope that her sorry background should inform what punishment or treatment she receives. Any which way you look at this it's a fucking tragedy.
 
 
William Sack
12:46 / 19.03.04
Just another quick point. It might be the case that the woman's cocaine and alcohol use during pregnancy had a direct influence on the need for a c-section. Another area of law (certainly in England) where there is an exception to the norm of not criminalising omissions, is where the omission consists of failing to do something to rectify a state of affairs your own actions have brought about. It might be that this doesn't fit the facts in this case, but something to put into the mix nonetheless.
 
 
ibis the being
14:26 / 19.03.04
Well, the need for a C-section as I understand it was that the babies' heartbeats were barely audible and they were not moving. No doubt the alcohol & coke had something to do with that, though I don't believe the doctors recommending the C-section knew about the drugs at the time.

What worries me about this case is where it could lead. How stringent could "recommendations" possibly become in the US? What if someday they say pregnant women should never eat fast food? I don't personally eat that shit, but if I were pregnant & craving a Big Mac I'd like to think I'd have that right. What if someday they "recommend" an injection of a drug that I don't wholly believe is safe for my baby? And I refuse that treatment?
 
 
Abigail Blue
13:57 / 20.03.04
Terrifying though it is to think of prenatal nutrition and care becoming bits of legislation, ibis, the pregnancy industry already takes care of making pregnant women feel like criminals.

The really unfortunate aspect of this particular case is that it's not a real argument due to the mitigating factor of the woman's mental illness. I mean, it's all very well to debate whether she should be charged with murder and to turn this into a Rights Of The Mother versus Rights Of The Fetus death-match, but the fact is that her mental illness and history of drug and child abuse kind of make it an unfair argument, IMHO. Bring me a mentally stable woman with no history of abuse who refuses a C-section regardless of the risk to her fetus and is charged with murder, and we'll talk.

In the meantime, we may as well be debating whether paranoid schizophrenics should be charged with harassment for writing letters to the President asking him to stop beaming messages into their brains.
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
20:54 / 21.03.04
Uh, 'rights of the mother'? The right not to have a fucking scar?
I found this article on Pointlesswasteoftime.com:

Woman Charged with Killing Baby, Then Charged With Child Endangerment After Her Living Baby Tested Positive For Cocaine and Alcohol, Then Charged For Scamming Adoption Couple Into Buying Her Dead Baby So She Could Earn Bail Money To Get Out of Prison...is single and "interested", according to Salt Lake City's prison letter-dating program. Melissa Rowland, who was jailed recently for the stillborn death of one of her twins, a boy, after refusing a C-section because it would have left a scar, plans to enter the letter-dating program to meet that special someone. Area bachelors are encouraged to contact Rowland, whose twin baby girl survived and has since tested positive for cocaine and alcohol.

Rowland, who then attempted to sell her dead son over the phone to an unwitting adoption couple for $5,000 for bail money, likes "long walks on the beach, eating ice cream in front of the fire, and being just about the most fetid piece of human stool on the planet."

Eager suitors are invited to write Rowland care of her maximum security penitentary.
 
 
Pingle!Pop
09:37 / 23.03.04
The idea that someone could/should be charged with murder for making the choice to ignore doctors' advice - "It's illegal to say, 'No, I'd rather not be cut open'" - seems so ludicrous and horrific that it's not even worth commenting on, but a little more reason why someone might be inclined to not listen to such advice:

An article on the ZMag website (thanks to Lurid for posting a link to the site in another thread) about the case.

There's more than chauvinism at work in the C-section issue when obstetricians and hospitals are more highly reimbursed for surgical births than for vaginal births. "In the state of Washington," Robbins explains, "the Caesarean rate in nonprofit hospitals is 20%, while the rate in for-profit hospitals is 36%. A few years ago a Kansas health maintenance organization (HMO) changed its policies and began to reimburse doctors equally for Caesarean and normal deliveries, so there was no longer a financial incentive to do Caesareans. The Caesarean rate dropped from 28.7% to 13.5% in one year."

Now really, after reading things like that, would you be inclined to believe that a doctor's recommendation of a Caesarean was necessarily made with your best interests at heart?
 
 
Abigail Blue
15:26 / 29.05.04
Further along the slippery slope...

More stories of women's childbirth rights being taken away by the courts.

I have to say that, as a pregnant woman, this is all pretty disturbing.
 
 
Abigail Blue
15:28 / 29.05.04
And here's the site of the National Advocates for Pregnant Women. Some interesting reading...
 
 
William Sack
14:25 / 04.06.04
First of all, congratulations Abigail! I did see that you started a thread about maternity wear elsewhere and I was going to reply to say that I know exactly what you meant about tight leggings and maternity smocks.

On the issue of comparison of Ms Rowland's case with that of your schitzophrenic letter writer, I do see a substantial difference myself. Any discussion of criminal sanction involves consideration of the consequences of one's actions; your letter writer causes mild annoyance (at best) to the most powerful person on the planet, whereas Ms Rowland's decisions apparently played a part in the death of an unborn baby. But it would appear that her mental state might well have had a bearing on the State of Utah's decision to accept a plea to a lesser charge and the imposition of a probation order. It is to be hoped that this can be of benefit to her.

Pingle: [Quote] Now really, after reading things like that, would you be inclined to believe that a doctor's recommendation of a Caesarean was necessarily made with your best interests at heart?

'Your and your baby's best interests at heart' one would hope. Unfortunately I don't have the moral clarity or sureness in my own rightness to characterise as 'ludicrous' and not worthy of comment someone who took the opposite view. Then again I don't know what the opposite of my sitting on the fence would be. On the specifics of Ms Rowland's case she was carrying twins (high incidence of c-section - 50% in the UK), one foetus was not moving and the heartbeat was faint (again, high incidence of c-section), and not one, but three different hospitals recommended urgent c-sections. I can't for the life of me (as an admitted medical lay-person, but one who has played a part in discussing the giving of consent for a c-section for twins) see that she was given anything other than the correct medical advice untainted by base financial considerations. In any event, this business of money-grubbing doctors is surely beside the point in Ms Rowland's case given her stated reasons for not having the c-section. I would accept, however, that a mother's confidence or otherwise in the medical advice she receives is an important factor in the wider debate.

Of course, a decision to prosecute Ms Rowland cannot be considered without an eye to further implications. There are some hideously slippery slopes and thin ends of wedges here, and Abigail's link to the CNN article about Amber Marlowe shows that a mother's experience and instincts might be correct and her medical advisors might be wrong. This is no surprise in my view, but complicates things further. But there is a difference between a woman who bases her decision for not following medical advice on previous experiences and one whose stated reason is that she would 'rather the babies die than be cut open.' I find the implications of prosecuting Ms Rowland very disturbing, but equally I am disturbed by the decisions she took, notwithstanding the complicated mental backdrop that we obviously don’t know the half of. Still on the fence here.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
18:40 / 04.06.04
Y'know, y'all don't look nearly scared enough to me. This ought to do it, Christian plarmacist refused to give woman prescribed contraceptive pills on moral grounds. He's going to be sentenced on June 22nd. Let us know how it turns out.
 
 
Nobody's girl
14:21 / 08.06.04
Salon has an interesting article today (June 8th) about how abortion restrictions in the US are making it so difficult to get later-term abortions in some states that lots of women are travelling to New York to abort.

A group called the Haven Coalition have formed to offer these women accommodation whilst in New York, consisting of people offering their spare room or floor space.

"One day, a desperate colleague called from another clinic to see if Megill would let an out-of-town patient -- who could hardly afford an abortion, much less a Manhattan hotel -- crash on her couch. She said yes that night -- and many, many more. She also began asking other counselors and friends if they'd pitch in. "

Pretty terrifying backward trend in women's rights in the US, that it would come to this.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
10:55 / 02.07.04
"Mister Wintwer, it happened again."
 
 
Grey Area
08:20 / 05.07.04
I'm speechless. I truly am.
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
08:57 / 06.07.04
That article is quite frightening.

Out of the many parts of it there are two things that really get to me.

Although Jones-Nosacek says she may have lost patients over her stand, she thinks most are happy to hear her opinion. "I think most women feel life begins at fertilization,"

There is just so much wrong with this statement it's hard to know where to begin. How is it that a woman, educated and given charge of women's health, is able to adopt the women are baby-making-machines mentality? I feel like I'm reading something quoted from a Sun journalist, not a trained medical professional.

...three states have conscience clauses for pharmacists...

This is something that I find very hard to take. The role of the pharmacist in society and particularly at the community level is a particularly important and influential one. By giving pharmacists a conscience clause for their working practices opens up an entirely dodgy grey area that probably should not be allowed to exist. It allows them the opportunity to exert inappropriate influences on their customers in a manner which could a) affect the methodology of medical practices and b) cause a patient undue suffering.

In a construct that already, by it's very nature, allows doctors to apply ethics to treatment (thankfully restricted by hipocratic requirements) it's unreasonable to open up alternative avenues of influence that could either conflict or further direct away from the best interests of a patient. I would have to look further into the contents and requirements of conscience clauses but I have this feeling that they will be objectionable.
 
  
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