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Massacre in Madrid: ETA blamed.

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Less searchable M0rd4nt

14:25 / 11.03.04

ETA massacre in Madrid

Happened this morning: a series of explosions in the Atocha railway station in Madrid. There were no warnings.

The death toll is over 180 right now and it just keeps rising. Over 1000 were injured. It could have been far, far worse, too -- other explosives were found and destroyed, explosives aimed to destroy the emergency services as they arrived at the scene.

Aznar has declared a 3-day mourning period.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

14:34 / 11.03.04

More background here: Madrid blasts: Who is to blame? and Who are Eta?, from the BBC website.

Whale... Whale... Fish!

15:17 / 11.03.04

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3501178.stm

Nice to see Bush cares so deeply as to have his Ambassador make a statement for him.

But I found a lot of the reactions interesting the majority express there condolences, however, the U.S., British, Israeli and Russians are all calling for a continuation of The War Against Terror.

18:46 / 11.03.04

Somehow the detail on the news that people's mobiles were ringing in the wreckage, in victim's pockets and bags, as relatives and friends called to just to check whether... Fuck fuck fuck.

18:59 / 11.03.04

On BBC News re responsibility:

Mr Aznar made it clear he believed the armed Basque separatist group Eta was behind the co-ordinated blasts.

But Interior Minister Angel Acebes later revealed that an Islamic tape had been found with detonators in a stolen van recovered near Madrid.

The van was found in the town of Alcala de Henares - where three of the four bombed trains originated. The other train passed through the town.

Mr Acebes said the tape - one of seven discovered in the van - contained verses of the Koran, in Arabic, relating to education.

"Because of this, I have just given instructions to the security forces not to rule out any line of investigation," he said.

However, the minister added that Eta remained the "main line of investigation".

A political group close to Eta has denied that it carried out the attacks.

Nothing but unfounded rumours so far, then. Must be a lot of anger building and looking for a target.

19:59 / 11.03.04

Purported Qaeda Letter Claims Spain Bombings-Paper

A letter purporting to come from Osama bin Laden (news - web sites)'s al Qaeda network claimed responsibility for train bombings in Spain on Thursday, calling them strikes against "crusaders," a London-based Arabic newspaper said.

The London-based al-Quds al-Arabi newspaper faxed to Reuters' Dubai bureau a copy of a letter purporting to come from the "Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades." The group aligns itself to al Qaeda, blamed by Washington for September 2001 attacks on the United States.

"We have succeeded in infiltrating the heart of crusader Europe and struck one of the bases of the crusader alliance," said the letter which called the attacks "Operation Death Trains."

There was no way of authenticating the letter.

20:14 / 11.03.04

The message going out through official channels is that ETA is the prime suspect. However, more people were killed in this attack than in the last five ETA attacks combined. That said, ETA is in political trouble and this may be an act of desperation. I just don't know.

20:24 / 11.03.04

Just wanted to add that the fact that there was no warning of the attack and there was no political target - which is uncharacteristic for ETA. But...they have been caught recently with similar quantities of explosives.

21:19 / 11.03.04

3.11 2004 is exactly two and a half years after 9.11 2001

Less searchable M0rd4nt

21:33 / 11.03.04

Harry Christmas, that's true enough, but bear in mind that some ETA members with a vanload of explosives (roughly the same quantity as used in this atrocity) were caught a month ago, and that a bombing attempt on Christmas Eve of last year was also foiled. And that it's 3 days from the general election date (now postponed).

Having said all that, I can definately imagine a sort of Al-Qaeda groupie-ism within ETA (or some offshoot thereof) promting the selecton of March the 11th as significant. "Gee! I want to be one of those really big terrorists when I grow up!"

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

22:06 / 11.03.04

Surely the involvement of one wouldn't rule out the involvement of the other, even though they are for different causes? Stranger alliances have been known...

23:51 / 11.03.04

If al Qaeda, why Spain? Why not France -- haven't they been nastier to Islam (in Algeria)?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

00:13 / 12.03.04

Spain supported the war on Iraq (which, despite Hussein being no friend of bin Laden's, has been another bandwagon for OBL et al to jump on)- France didn't. Let's face it, most of the West is an al-Qaeda target- maybe practicality was an issue. Maybe operatives in Spain were just luckier/better organised than those in France (or, indeed, had easy access to explosives because of possible deals with existing terrorist networks). Remember al Qaeda's a loosely linked network of cells- OBL's not sitting there with a big glowing map of the world plotting this stuff out directly.

Obviously, ETA are the first and most likely suspects. But not the only people with grievances against Aznar.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

06:46 / 12.03.04

I'm open to the idea of some AQ splinter-group being involved in this, but surely ETA is likely to be the principle culprit.

06:47 / 12.03.04

On areas that could lead to tension between pan islamic extremists/terrorists and the spanish government – well, there is Ceuta one of a few Spanish enclaves in Morocco, an Islamic state.

I'm not saying that I think this is the reason for the attacks, but it could be seen as a reason for pan islamic extremists/terrorists to target Spain over and above their involvement/support for the invasion of Iraq.

Grand Panjandrum of the Pointless

08:21 / 12.03.04

Spain must be one of the easiest Western European countries for Al-Quaeda groups to infiltrate. It's probably quite easily to get people and materiel in across the Straits of Gibraltar, if one can find a friendly Moroccan fisherman. One might not even need that. Last time I went through customs in the port of Algeciras security wasn't notably rigorous, and that was just a month after 9/11.
As such, they are a temptingly soft target, and within the reach of even moderately funded extremists, who couldn't shell out for air tickets or flying lessons.
And they have shown a tendency to go for softer targets recently- cf the attacks in Turkey a while back

Less searchable M0rd4nt

09:45 / 12.03.04

Sure -- it would be easy enough for Al-Qaeda or similar to get into Spain, and there's certanily motive.

But it's already known that ETA were planning something exactly like this and that they had the means to carry it out. The ETA members attested before Christmas? Suitcases full of dynamite. The vanload of ETA terrorists arrested last month? They were found with 500 kilos of dynamite.

It'll take a bit more evidence than a tape of Islamic verses and a dodgy letter to a London newspaper to convince me that this wasn't soley and entirely the work of ETA.

09:50 / 12.03.04

Had a talk with a Spanish colleague this morning. He's shell shocked, is the long and the short of it. Angry too, and muttering about "too many Moroccans" in Spain. Looking for someone to be angry at.

I feel for him and his country but the immediate rumours about "the enemy within" make me nervous. And sad, given that he, himself, is experiencing living as a migrant in another country.

yawn - thing's buddy

10:41 / 12.03.04

Spain probably has the longest history of any european country when it comes to the abuse of muslims. The Spanish have sytematically attempted to erase links with islam in every level of their culture - a culture to which muslims have made a massive contribution. The Arabs ruled the iberian peninsula for nigh on 6 centurues but the way this history is presented is as an abberation, a continuity error, which, Crisis on Infinite Earth style, a succession of Christian Rulers down the centuries have attempted to erase from the big picture.

Again the same is true of Turkey and its participation in Europe. Sadly, to this day, Europe is genuinely a Christian club with a majority of its citizens who want to keep it that way.

Hence, the level of racism against 'muslim' people in Spain is pretty shocking really, until you realise that almost by nature, Europeans hate muslims.

This is not justification for bombing - more a reply to grant's request for more info regarding islamic grievances towards European countries.

17:09 / 12.03.04

Wait...didn't Spain send troops to Iraq?

19:44 / 12.03.04

Yep, intelligence agents too, a group of whom were killed in an ambush a few months ago.

21:18 / 12.03.04

Aznar was probably the most robust member of the "Alliance of the Willing" in Iraq (after our Poodle Minister obviously. Little shit.) As in GB, he made his bid for scraps from Dubya's table in defiance of his populus, apparently.

I saw coverage of the vigil at Noon. How did the marches go tonight?

Grand Panjandrum of the Pointless

21:29 / 12.03.04

I don't think we'll know for awhile. If Aznar has evidence that it's Al -Quaeda I bet he'll keep it under his hat until after the election in order to score maximum anti-Basque points.

21:45 / 12.03.04

The vigil at noon drew lots of people at the Uni, and they were even handing out badges with the Uni logo and "Pau. Escolteu-nos!" (Peace. Hear us!)

The demo this evening in Barcelona proper was a big affair. I guess there were at least a couple of hundred thousand, though I'm probably underestimating it as there wasn't much movement and so it was hard to judge the numbers.

The mood was a little hostile to Aznar (and Bush and Blair to a lesser extent) although the main message was more generally against terrorism than a pointedly political one. The most common banners simply said "Pau" and "Paz", which is "peace" in Catalan and Castillian respectively. (Interestingly, the proportion of the languages was about even.) Every now and again someone would start singing "Hijo de puta!" and there was a thing we didn't quite understand to do with putting your empty hands in the air for show and the words "manos blancos". Some people even had their hands painted white. I suppose you can guess the significance.

It was a mixed crowd and a real sense that the whole city was involved. If it was ETA, and if Barcelona is anything to go by, they haven't done themselves any favours at all.

22:28 / 12.03.04

From the Associated Press...

ETA denied responsibility, according to Gara, a Basque newspaper that the armed group uses to issue statements. The daily Gara said a caller claiming to represent ETA phoned its newsroom Friday to deny government allegations that the group was to blame.

It was the first time ETA was known to have issued such a denial. The group normally claims its attacks in statements to pro-Basque independence media several weeks later.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

10:02 / 13.03.04

Acording to the Manos Blancos website, the number attending the Barcelona demonstration was around 1.2 million.

16:21 / 13.03.04

Here's a scary little detail about the bombings: the attack took place exactly 911 days AFTER 9/11/01.

Don't know if it really means anything but still, kinda spooky.

18:29 / 13.03.04

5 Suspects arrested

Spain's interior minister Saturday announced the arrest of five suspects in the Madrid bombings, including three Moroccans. The other two suspects had Indian passports, a ministry spokesman said.

The five were arrested in connection with a cell phone inside an explosives-packed gym bag found on one of the bombed commuter trains. The suspects "could be related to Moroccan extremist groups," the minister said. "But we should not rule out anything. Police are still investigating all avenues. This opens an important avenue."

18:48 / 13.03.04

Spanish Intelligence Reportedly Blames Muslims for Bombs

MADRID, Spain (Reuters) - Spain's intelligence service is "99 percent certain" Muslim not Basque militants perpetrated the Madrid train bombings that killed 200 people, a Spanish radio station reported on Saturday.

The report by private radio SER, whose owners have links to the opposition Socialists, flew in the face of government assertions armed group ETA was the prime suspect in the attacks that have traumatized Spain and sent jitters round the world.

It fueled grumbling from critics that Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar's government might be focusing on the Basque group, rather than al Qaeda, for internal political gain ahead of Sunday's election. Ministers angrily denied the charge.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

19:46 / 13.03.04

the attack took place exactly 911 days AFTER 9/11/01.

I thought that too, but turns out it's 912 days. Everyone forgot the leap year.

23:35 / 13.03.04

Video alleges al Qaeda behind attacks

...a man appearing in a videotape claiming to be a military spokesman for al Qaeda in Europe says the terror group is behind Thursday's 10 coordinated bombings. The tape has not been independently verified.

The videotape, released by Interior Minister Angel Acebes, says: "We declare our responsibility for what occurred in Madrid, just 2.5 years after the attacks in New York and Washington.

"It is a response to your collaboration with the criminals [U.S. President] Bush and his allies. This is a response to the crimes that you have caused in the world and specifically in Iraq and in Afghanistan. And there will be more, God willing. This is a message from the military spokesman for al Qaeda in Europe."

Scrambled Password Bogus Email

12:38 / 14.03.04

I thought that too, but turns out it's 912 days. Everyone forgot the leap year.

Is the Leap Year a Julian Calender convention only? I have no idea, but do other calenders uphold the same convention? I presume they would, since astronomy is astronomy, but worth checking if you can be arsed, I suppose.

I thought about starting a new thread, but may as well chip in here and see what folks reckon. At this stage in the infowar that is The War on Terrorism, how do you, as an interested citizen, actually draw the line between Healthy Scepticism and Card Carrying Paranoia?

The reason I ask is because I find the arrival of a video claiming Al-Quaeda responsibility for Madrid at this stage of the game impossible to verify in any way shape or form from childs-play Psy-Ops...

In the absence of reliable claims to responsibility, it would take little for a highly structured and moneyed Western intelligence organisation to 'take PR advantage' of such an incident.

I'm not so crazed as to suggest collusion or involvement in the atrocity, but simple beating of the drum to suit the current cause in a vacuum of authentic claims is surely Spying 101 Freshman course first day??

13:46 / 14.03.04

Well, you have to bear in mind that the PP - the party of Spanish government, at least till tomorrow - have an interest in claiming it was ETA rather than Al-Qaeda.

15:36 / 14.03.04

I'm no fan of the PP-led government nor of the ETA, who sound like nationalist mafia to me, so I'll give the government credit where it's due. They acknowledged the Muslim angle and quickly divulged the ethnicities of the arrestees. They could have sat on this until Monday. Today the people can make up their own minds. I'm a little familiar with ETA's m.o., and this doesn't seem to fit. They're usually more specific in their attacks. We don't know the intended target of the truck loaded with dynamite; it could have been destined for police HQ or the Parliament building.

I'd like to see the PP lose its strong majority, but I don't like the idea that this is Aznar's fault for backing Bush in Afghanistan and Iraq. The danger of terrorist attacks is something we'll have to live with, just like Spain have lived with ETA and the UK the IRA. What galls me is that Spain's government, like that of the US and UK, are using The War Against Terror as an excuse to treat their own citizens like criminals. It's no way to mobilize citizens to fight legitimate threats because it starts from fear and not trust or respect. That approach doesn't even succeed on its own terms; while Spain spied on the usual ETA suspects, this other group walked right in.

19:11 / 14.03.04

This is interesting. It looks like the PSOE - the socialist party - have won the election. The turnout looks like it is pretty high so this looks like it has been influenced by the bombing in Madrid as well as Spain's position in the war on terror.

For all us antiwar types, this has to be good news.

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