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TV Licence question.

 
 
Bed Head
14:18 / 06.03.04
So. Any Brits here know about the ins and outs of this? I’ve tried a little light googleling and I can’t separate out the scary myths from what’s actually likely to happen.

Everytime I’ve had a telly in the past I’ve been a good boy and always bought a TV licence: yeah, I think the licence fee is quite a Good Thing, although I’m a bit more hazy on the ‘hounding poor people into prison for non-payment’ aspect of it. I’ve done my bit in the past and I’d still count myself as supporting the concept of a publically-funded BBC. In theory.

But, I don’t have a television at the moment. Can’t afford one, can’t really afford a licence, so I tried life without a telly and it’s been great. And since I’ve lived in this flat I’ve cheerfully ignored all the TV licencing letters to ‘the occupier’ because I don’t see the need to enter into a dialogue if I’ve made the decision not to have anything to do with them. So, the other night a couple of seriously burly men turn up on my doorstep after dark, and when I tell them I don’t have a TV, they demand entry to check, and warn me of the fines I could be incurring unless I buy a licence. It wasn’t very nice. Not to feel intimidated on my own doorstep, or to be disbelieved, or to be threatened, however vaguely. I mean, they were *very* gruff, and they shone a torch in my face, it was intimidation on that kind of stoopid, base level. A trawl of horror stories on the internet tells me I can now expect anything from more unpleasant visits like this, to TV Licencing sooner or later acquiring a search warrant and forcing entry. Now, call me odd, but I don’t *want* a couple of bouncers going through my flat and seeing exactly what stuff I do or don’t have, regardless of the circumstances. Being legally compelled to grant them access wouldn’t make it okay. But I certainly don’t want my door broken. And, rather more idiotically, I don’t particularly feel like providing a privately held database with a current name for this address, when I’ve actually decided not to own or watch a telly. I’ve declined a service: so it’s quite literally none of their business. So, my question to Barbelith is, does anyone know how can I best avoid any of these things? Apart from by buying a licence, because I’m already considering doing that, just to be left alone.



This post comes with apologies for the flappy hysteria/long-windedness/appalling grammar.
 
 
Nobody's girl
14:37 / 06.03.04
I suggest speaking to Citizens Advice or a similar advisory body who'll be able to furnish you with reliable information and get you a (free)solicitor if you need to prevent the heavies getting a court order to search your flat.
http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/
 
 
Ariadne
16:36 / 06.03.04
I have exactly the same problem, Bed Head - i don't have a TV and get calls from them all the time. I actually wish they would come round one time when I'm in because I would let them in, in the hope it would shut them up. I've written nice letters, tried everything -- I haven't had a TV for six years but that's apparently just unbelievable. All those adverts saying 'get a license or else' really get on my nerves.

Citizens Advice is a good idea, though. At least they could tell you where you stand. If you find out anything interesting, do let me know!
 
 
---
08:35 / 07.03.04
Trying to get in your flat and you don't have a TV?

That's insane. Whatever you do don't buy a license if you don't have a TV, that would be feeding the corporate beast for nothing in return.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:57 / 07.03.04
Don't have much advice, unfortunately...

but what I will say is

CONGRATULATIONS ON NOT HAVING A TV!!! (That goes for you too, Ariadne.)

I've managed to give up WATCHING the fucking thing, and feel very chuffed about this achievement. However, actually GETTING RID OF it fills me with fear. Even though mine's in my room, covered in dust, books and comics and hasn't been plugged in for over a year... I dunno...

Funny thing is, this means I AM liable for a licence. Which they're also after me for, but just saying "I don't watch it" isn't really gonna convince anyone, is it?
 
 
Sax
13:03 / 07.03.04
Ariadne: I haven't had a TV for six years but that's apparently just unbelievable. All those adverts saying 'get a license or else' really get on my nerves.

A-ha! So what do you watch the annoying adverts on if you don't have a telly?*



* I know you probably read them in newspapers but I couldn't resist


The fact is, once you have a licence, you're on the database forever. And they find it pretty hard to believe that you, you know, actually don't have a telly.
 
 
Ariadne
13:33 / 07.03.04
I see them on tube walls, smarty pants. And I've never had a license - someone else must have paid it (or not) in shared flats, I suppose. And then they don't have a licence system in NZ. So I'm not on their database myself, but the flat certainly is. With a big red flashing flag next to it.
 
 
Bed Head
14:05 / 07.03.04
Well, yeah. And it’s ever such a large database, too, with lots of chunky-necked men running around putting in a huge amount of effort, continuously updating their records to maintain a current name for every postal address in the UK. It’s bloody odd, when you think about it, all we’re talking about is whether or not you own a television set.

Hm, anyway. Thanks for the comments. I’m actually reassured to know this kind of thing can carry on for six long years without any dire consequences. The real question, I suppose, is how likely is it that a magistrate will ever grant a search warrant without any actual cause? I mean, without any evidence gathered from detector vans, or tip-offs from TV salesmen, or any other sneaky techniques that lead them to believe you’re not telling the truth. Is there really a presumption of guilt?

And thanks, Diezietsma. I don’t plan to bother the CAB just yet, it’s too trivial a thing to waste their time with: their advisers and solicitors are overworked as it is dealing with people in urgent need, which I’m not. Er, which is why I’m asking around on a message board. Not to say that you’re not all busy people too. After all, I’m not actually liable for a fine, I’m just curious as to how pressing is the intrusion into my quiet life.


Oh and Stoatie, you *are* liable for a licence dude. Best throw that evil gogglebox in the bin and join us cool kids. TV’s so lame.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
14:06 / 07.03.04
You've probably already tried this, but 'phone up the TV Licensing people - there'll be a helpline number on the letters and it should also be in the Yellow Pages. I had hassle a couple of years ago, so gave them a ring. Didn't get any joy the first time around - guy I spoke to was a prick, to be blunt - so I tried again a bit later the same day and got through to somebody else who sorted it out for me straight away.

Otherwise, Citizen's Advice sounds like your best bet.
 
 
Smoothly
14:10 / 07.03.04
CONGRATULATIONS ON NOT HAVING A TV!!! (That goes for you too, Ariadne.)
I've managed to give up WATCHING the fucking thing, and feel very chuffed about this achievement.


Now you should wean yourself off those books and comics. The evil, time-consuming, papery fire-hazards...
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:04 / 07.03.04
Don't you even THINK about starting on me booze and fags...
 
 
luminocity
15:13 / 07.03.04
Do not let anyone into your house, they have no right to enter your property without your permission.
Examine the correspondence section at http://www.tvlicensing.biz/
 
 
sleazenation
15:49 / 07.03.04
Also the more insistant, unprofessional and just plain thugish these supposed TV license folks are (or indeed any one else trying to gain access to your home) the less likely they are to be genuine. Always ask for ID and check it out before letting anyone in. Also check up with TV licence people to see if anyone working for them was in your neighbourhood when you were visited. If you are unsatisfied with the conduct of the people who visited you and they were indeed genuine this is also the first point of contact for you to complain to...
 
 
pomegranate
17:17 / 07.03.04
is this a freaking joke? really, though. are you just making this joke on poor yanks who don't know any better? is this for real? you have to have a *license* to own a tv? and then thugs come to yr door when they think you have some "unlicensed" tv? i can't believe it.
...AND the bars close at 11? here i lament that there aren't enough 4am bars, most close at 2.

*hums "america the beautiful," wipes tear from eye*
 
 
Smoothly
17:24 / 07.03.04
The BBC is paid for with the licence fee, mantis. Although not necessarily for much longer.
 
 
pomegranate
17:53 / 07.03.04
ok, i think i get it. so does this mean you don't have annoying pledge drives like we do on pbs? (pbs is the commercial free station that has so-called better programming, like, say, sesame street.)
 
 
---
18:02 / 07.03.04
Funny thing is, this means I AM liable for a licence. Which they're also after me for, but just saying "I don't watch it" isn't really gonna convince anyone, is it?

This is insane, i'll get out my fouth mouth again for this occasion and say : fuck 'em.

It's a totally ridiculous situ, so what if they don't believe you? The fact is : it's perfectly legal to own a TV and not watch it. Besides, they have ways of testing this so tell the burly boys to get back in touch with the testers and TEST if your watching the TV or not.

It just sounds downright fascist to me, don't let them in, they have no right.

I don't watch TV either and haven't in ages, it looks like we have a group forming!
 
 
luminocity
21:04 / 07.03.04
I personally don't believe that technology exists that would allow the detection of unlicenced TVs economically. I think detector vans and such are a waste of time and money. Has anyone actually seen inside one? If you do end up letting someone into your property (if they get a court order) - Vicky Larmour's mini-FAQ has established that showing that your TV is detuned is sufficient satisfaction. However as you don't even have a TV I think you would have a case for damages under the tort of nuisance, and certainly could sue if a court order was wrongfully issued. Check with a lawyer first.
 
 
Wyrdstone
21:48 / 07.03.04
I didnt watch broadcasted programmes on my TV set for about 4 years, only using it to watch videos, DVD's and play the occasional video game. I had the same problem of endless threatening letters from the liscensing agency, which i always replied to explaining the situation but had no joy. In the end a man came out to inspect the situation, who i politely showed around my house showing him the de-tuned stations and the cut ariel leads on both TV's and explained to him why i didnt use my TV's in the standard way to watch broadcasted drivel.
He was really having a hard time beleiving me and didnt really know what to do, but after phoning up his boss agreed that i wasnt liable for a fine or needed to pay any license for the use of my televisions.
I was well chuffed and sent him on his way, and lo and behold the letters stopped coming..................for about 2 months when it all started all over again
Its enough to drive a man insane. But dont give in to them.
 
 
Cloned Christ on a HoverDonkey
21:58 / 07.03.04
Quote from HERE:

You don't need a license if you don't connect a TV to an antenna, cable or satellite receiver and just use it to play back pre-recorded tapes or DVDs, nor if you only watch satellite TV originating outside the UK. But how do you prove it?

The PC user with a TV card has been the most popular target in the last 18 months, but an even sorrier situation has arisen with a decision that a broadband user who is streaming video from the BBCi Web site also needs a license. But don't worry if you are streaming BBC television news in the United States, they are only going after UK users.

At the cost involved for the licenses (and the UK isn't the only country to have this system for funding the “public” broadcaster), there is inevitably going to be cheating or evasion. Those that propose taxing the Internet in some way should look at this as a cautionary tale… but that's another column.


So now they're basically saying that if you've got an internet connected computer you need to have a license. Surely, though, the onus would be on the licensing authority to prove you're accessing BBCi, presumably by subpoaenaing (sp?) your ISP's logs. Likely?
 
 
---
08:18 / 08.03.04
The PC user with a TV card has been the most popular target in the last 18 months, but an even sorrier situation has arisen with a decision that a broadband user who is streaming video from the BBCi Web site also needs a license. But don't worry if you are streaming BBC television news in the United States, they are only going after UK users.

Wha......?

Maybe the BBC is getting a bit too big for it's boots?

Woops, come on Jack, calm down..........remember what happens when you've just got out of bed.............meme's cycling on serene monk............
 
  
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