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Is it cool to not like what's popular?

 
 
PatrickMM
03:23 / 01.03.04
Just by virtue of posting here, you probably consider yourself a bit smarter/cultured than the average person out there, and as a result, your taste in films, TV and books is obviously above average. At least, I like to think that mine is. So, I often find myself subconsciously not liking the movie or book that's really popular at the moment.

I remember when Fellowship of the Ring came out, I was really psyched, and no one else around me was. I went on opening night alone, because I couldn't get anyone else to go on a week night. I absolutely loved the film, and was talking it up to people who were really skeptical about. A year later, it's time for Two Towers, and I've got a posse of eight people ready to go with me on opening day, and it seems like every person I run in to is really psyched about the film. Then, tonight I'm watching the Oscars, and people are really rooting for Return of the King to win stuff, and seeing this enthusiasm, I'm almost rooting against the film on some level, whereas I was celebrating every Fellowship victory. I actually think RotK is the best film in the trilogy, but it's almost more difficult to get excited about it when it's so popular among everyone.

There seems to be a moment when a film goes from being "your" film, to becoming a completely mainstream film. The film itself hasn't changed, but some of the cache of watching it has. An example of a film where this is happening right now is Donnie Darko. About a year ago, you say you're watching Donnie Darko, and people either say, "What?" or, for the minority who've seen the film, you sort of make a connection, like you're part of a secret group who've seen the film. However, now, it seems like everyone has either seen the film, or at least heard of it, and it loses some of that secret club feel. I don't think the Barbelith thread on Donnie Darko would be as full of joy if the film wasn't discovered like a secret on here, instead was heard about through more mainstream channels.

So, instead of being a cult film, it's almost become institutionalized, and as a result, it's not as cool to name drop the film, since practically everyone's seen it. You can see this sort of thing in early 90's film with Star Wars references. Before the re-release in '97, the films were basically dead, and dropping a reference put you in touch with the select group who remembered the film, and gained you some street cred. You could make a good argument that Kevin Smith's entire career is due to the Star Wars reference in Clerks.

So, do you find yourself feeling a backlash when a film you like becomes popular and mainstream? It may be tough to admit, but on some level, when you hear people at your job or school you don't respect talking about a film you used to really love as a cult thing, do you find it tough to be passionate about the film anymore? After all, no one says that independent, undiscovered crap, but mainstream Hollywood crap is thrown around quite readily.
 
 
PatrickMM
03:27 / 01.03.04
And, while I posted this in film, I think the point applies equally, if not more, to music, where bands are always accused of selling out, just by virtue of being popular, and fans tout "the early stuff."
 
 
CameronStewart
03:50 / 01.03.04
You know, I used to feel a certain resentment when an obscure favourite comic/film/book/band/whatever suddenly became massively popular, but recently I've decided that really, who the fuck cares? If you enjoy something, enjoy it for what it is, not for how many or how few other people enjoy it as well.

Not a terribly profound post, but there it is.
 
 
Turk
04:07 / 01.03.04
I used to react to this predicament in much in the same way snobbish countryside lovers complain once their peaceful private nature haven has been discovered by weekend families with windbreakers and footballs. Then I realised the two situations are not at all alike since the beauty spot truly is altered by the presence of other people, a movie, a finished production isn't changed at all by a variance in its popularity. It was then that I grew up realised my desire to keep films for myself was a merely tasteless narcissistic pursuit of self-importance because my issues were with how other people's opinions on the films made me feel about myself, the films themselves were simply victims of transference. So I then switched to thinking about my own insecurities and disassociated them altogether from movies, and a lot of other things I held similarly snobbish views over. Since then a calmer tenor has risen within me - if I like a film, I want other people to see it and I hope they enjoy it too. After all, who am I to deny them that?
 
 
CameronStewart
04:58 / 01.03.04
That's kind of what I wanted to say, but I'm not so elo...uh...eluh...I don't talk so good.
 
 
Olulabelle
08:12 / 01.03.04
it's not as cool to name drop the film, since practically everyone's seen it.

...dropping a reference put you in touch with the select group who remembered the film, and gained you some street cred.


It's totally elitist and intellectual snobbery is what it is!
 
 
_Boboss
09:47 / 01.03.04
looks like the whitemiddleclassantipopconspiracy could be gaining a toehold. where's flyboy?
 
 
Bear
10:04 / 01.03.04
I saw Donnie Darko like a year before everyone else in the WORLD, it was mine... then all you nerds watched it and sapped all the power from it.

If the movie/song/TV show is good you'd like other people to see it right? Enjoy it the same way you did? Or maybe in a different way....
 
 
Spatula Clarke
11:29 / 01.03.04
Just by virtue of posting here, you probably consider yourself a bit smarter/cultured than the average person out there, and as a result, you will die a lonely, embittered and withered old bastard.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:06 / 01.03.04
I'm right here, San.

I think it's a very human failing, is what I think.
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
12:09 / 01.03.04
I remember seeing Donnie Darko at my local multiplex, where it only played twice, both at about nine 'o clock. There was about twenty people in a theatre made for ten times that. Looking around there were people... I guess a little like me, we all dressed roughly the same, some wore t-shirts for bands I liked, there was a definite sense that I could probably strike up a conversation with any of them and find that we shared a lot of similar interests. At the end of the movie we all sat like statues until a minute or so after the credits stopped before we started filtering out.
Decry elitist snobbery all you want, sometimes it's just fun.
 
 
Bear
12:17 / 01.03.04
It is actually very common, I think I was very rude this morning (another human failing), if something is genuinely good it'll eventually catch on and become very popular usually much more than it deserves *cough* LOTR *cough*....

Maybe the people that saw Donnie Darko much later than you didn't have as many friends that might have mentioned it, or maybe they didn't have access to the net? Doesn't mean that they are any less smart or cultured right? Someone must have recommended the film to you, are they smarted and more cultured than you?

So to answer the question, no I don't really feel a backlash but then I've never liked that "secret club" vibe.
 
 
uncle retrospective
12:25 / 01.03.04
I've never liked that "secret club" vibe.
You should, we have secret decoder rings.
 
 
Bear
12:47 / 01.03.04
If I like something I'll bore everyone by going on about how good it is and tell them to check it out as soon as possible, maybe I should try to be more secretive especially if there are rings on offer...
 
 
PatrickMM
00:08 / 02.03.04
I probably should have clarified my point a little bit. I didn't mean that your opinion of the film itself changes, it's more your likelihood to reccomend it to someone, and get really enthused about the film.

Think about it like this. Let's say The Matrix wasn't a hit, and never made it into the mainstream. You saw it and liked it. Someone comes up to you, and asks you to reccomend a film. You'd probably be more likely to reccomend The Matrix then you are now when the film went really mainstream, even though your opinion of the film may be the same, and the person hasn't seen it.

I guess the better question for the topic would have been not does something becoming popular affect your opinon of the film, it would be does something becoming popular make you less likely to recommend it to friends.

If the movie/song/TV show is good you'd like other people to see it right? Enjoy it the same way you did? Or maybe in a different way....

I heartily agree with you, and I try to be an "evangelist" for the stuff I like. I've gotten five or six people to read through the Invisibles, and I've passed Mulholland Drive and Twin Peaks around my friend groups. Why'd I choose to pass around these works rather than say Tim Burton's Batman, even though I like the films equally? It's probably because giving someone Batman doesn't give you the feeling of passing something unique to you, whereas something more obscure does.

What it comes down to is, if you liked the two equally, which would you volunteer first when asked which movie you liked, X2 or Lost Highway?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
01:11 / 02.03.04
If I liked each as much as the other, I wouldn't. Because they offer fundamentally different things.
 
 
Rage
08:23 / 05.03.04
Someone needs to make a huge Hollywood movie about a secret club of people who hate all things popular.
 
 
HCE
17:47 / 05.03.04
I think it's quite legitimate to dislike something just because it's popular. Something popular has almost by definition suppressed its more striking elements in favor of that which will have universal appeal. It's not so much that extra eyes viewing a film will change it -- it's more that if I find that masses have flocked to a film I liked because I thought it was profound, I'll go back and ask myself whether I didn't perhaps like it for baser reasons. I can't think of any instance where this has happened, though.

Donnie Darko isn't a secret but it's not really that popular. Perhaps there are degrees of popularity. There's always some asshole out there who won't like a band or film that doesn't meet his standard for what's underground. If he ever meets anybody other than himself or a member of the band who has so much as heard they exist, they're off his list. Such people are often rather unappetizing in person -- a bit unwashed, I'm sure you know the type.

Above and beyond a sound foundation in personal experience for disliking the popular, there is another and better reason for seeking out the obscure and good (not everything obscure is good) -- such things deserve an audience, and not everybody is capable of providing an appreciative eye or ear. Art needs you as much as you need it.
 
 
Krug
18:39 / 05.03.04
I find that when I make an almost spiritual and intense connection to any film, it's usually seen by enough (I arrived in the eighties here) people to have an actual reputation that convinces to invest time on it and later I realise that it's a bit embarassing being able to relate to, say someone like, Holden Caulfield (not really because he's a twat) because everyone and their grandad's already had wanks over them.

I think sloppy seconds describes it best.

I haven't seen the LOTR films which I might have if it weren't for the ejaculate flying everywhere since I'm fond of Peter Jackson but I don't think I'll be able to get to them for another twenty years if ever. I might have seen if it were one film though. I'm sure they're terrific but I have a tendency to shy away from the girl everyone thinks is hot or the film which is the new Star Wars (haven't seen any Stars Wars, Trek or anything like that either).

It's definitely elitist and I do recognise that and I've been unlearning it this past year.

On the other hand, I do want every human being on the planet to watch Ingmar Bergman's Virgin Spring or Phillip Ridley's The Reflecting Skin or Robert Enrico's Occurence at Owl Creek Bridge. I like to discover 'em before when most people will still go "What?" and then I want everyone to watch them. I want to share every book, every comic, every song and film that's ever really meant anything to me at any point but I don't want to join in on the chorus to the song everyone is singing.

I have no problem with anyone watching Donnie Darko, I actually want more people to see it and I want Richard Kelly to be able to make the next movie soon because DD made next to no money. I want his next film to make him a very rich man. I want to watch films in theatres that I don't get to see until they are released on dvd because they're not playing within an hour's drive and I want them to make more money than shit like the butterfly effect. I just don't want to be told by someone who preordered the Gigli DVD to tell me "Hey, I don't know if you've heard about it but there's a film called Ringu. It's a ripoff of the American Ring, it's a good film for a ripoff."

Yes it is a human failiing and soon I will stop caring.
 
 
ibis the being
18:41 / 05.03.04
people either say, "What?" or, for the minority who've seen the film, you sort of make a connection, like you're part of a secret group who've seen the film. However, now, it seems like everyone has either seen the film, or at least heard of it, and it loses some of that secret club feel.

I think this is a normal phase of life, a psychological stage of adolescence where people seek out ways to be unique-yet-connected (with a "secret club"). I don't think there's anything terribly wrong with it - but it does feel really good to grow out of it. When I did, I only then realized how much energy it had required to stay cool, at the expense of just enjoying whatever I enjoy. I mean, for eg, I thought "Old School" was really funny. It's not quality, or art, or underground, but I liked it so much I watched it twice in a week, who cares.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
18:44 / 05.03.04
Yeah, the trouble with a lot of what's popular is that it's so heavily marketed, so shoved-down-yer throat, that you almost have to dislike it as a matter of principle. You know, all those " event " movies, where they've spent about as much on the ads as they on the big bangs and shiny noises, ( not, you unnerstand, that I'm opposed to those things, ) but where they apparently couldn't scratch together a few extra grand to cover the cost of a half-decent script.

A lot of the time, what these people are doing is just taking the piss, ie putting out any load of old crap on the basis that you, the consumer, are far too stupid to even notice the difference.

I mean it's just insulting, you know ?

And as for the state of the TV in England these days...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:01 / 05.03.04

On the other hand, I do want every human being on the planet to watch Ingmar Bergman's Virgin Spring or Phillip Ridley's The Reflecting Skin or Robert Enrico's Occurence at Owl Creek Bridge.


And then listen to New Kids on the Block and watch Beverly Hills 90210....
 
  
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