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Is there any real point in even trying to stop smoking ?

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09:17 / 16.02.04

I've thought about this quite a lot, and I don't think there is.

09:35 / 16.02.04

What do you mean? Is there any point in stopping smoking? Are all *attempts* to stop smoking futile despite there being good reasons for doing so? Something else?
At the moment we're having to take your word for the 'thinking about it quite a lot' bit.

09:35 / 16.02.04

So cancer is not a real issue?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

10:03 / 16.02.04

Having tried giving up a couple of times, I am firmly of the opinion that me NOT smoking is more dangerous to the health of others (and, what with everyone in the world being harder than me, myself by extension). For this reason, I am firmly resolved to give up smoking AS and WHEN I am living on my own, a long way from people I care about. I value friendship more than lungs.

10:15 / 16.02.04

Thats exaxctly how I feel Stoatie, I dont WANT to stop.. and whenever that "man-you-will-die-of-cancer-by-the-time-your-40-" noia comes over me, I focus very hard on the fact that im only 18 and that I will quit in a few years..ofcourse, thats bullshit..

10:23 / 16.02.04

Alex - I don't really know what this thread is about.

Do you think you want to stop smoking but are unsure you have the gumption to do it? or are you saying that smoking is cool (yay!)

I don't know if this is a thread for smokers to say how they like it - and amen to that brother - or whether you want encouragement to stop - which is also fair play.

10:46 / 16.02.04

lent starts next week. i'm kicking tobacco, marijuana and booze, and possibly some other bad habits, for forty days and nights of self-desertification.

not going to let some xtian smug me over for giving shit up and thinking they're better than me. how else respond to their smugness?

and time comes to give something up you'd be mad to do it at new years. resolutions are more about doing something good rather than dropping something bad. the smoking is deep rubbish though, that much is clear, and at twenty-five you're old enough to give up for the right reasons innit?

10:54 / 16.02.04

I've been trying since New Years Eve, again. If your objective is success, then no, there's no point in trying. There may well be a huge point to succeeding but I've not yet worked out how that can be achieved. Trying is pointless, doing is useful.

Here in Australia there's a Government funded thing called, aptly, Quit. It's "free", you can ring them and they send you out brochures and a Quit Pack, whatever that is. If you are feeling weak and wanting a smoke you can ring them and they'll talk you out of it, apparently. I've never called them. I want to be able to do it all by myself without Government intervention because, frankly, I hate Government intervention in every other aspect of my life so why should this bit be any different?

I wouldn't worry about "man-you-will-die-of-cancer-by-the-time-your-40-noia" coz I've passed that milestone and I'm still breathing, albeit wheezily.

I'm quite capable of not smoking if I'm broke and can't afford tobacco, but the moment a client pays their bill I'm straight off to the tobacconist!

I have no willpower in this area whatsoever. Last year I went 6 months, while living with a non-smoker, on only 6 cigs a day. The moment I moved back on my own, on the other side of the planet, I was back to 40.

I'm just crap!

11:05 / 16.02.04

Good luck, Wolverine-san. I gave up (successfully) at Lent two years ago, and generally feel better for it. I was thinking about starting again, but then I had a cigarette on Saturday night: after the first two or three dizzyingly wonderful drags it was genuinely a bit of a chore and made me feel bad to smoke. So I don't think I'll bother getting back into an unhealthy addiction just to have something to do with my hands in-between typing paragraphs other than play Minesweeper.

I wouldn't bother trying until/unless you actually, really want to quit, as from friends' experience it won't work. I never tried to quit until I actually did.

12:32 / 16.02.04

I just want to answer your question " is there any real point in even trying to stop smoking?"
To start with no chest infection every time I get a cold, the ability to breathe while walking up a hill, getting up in the morning and not coughing for ten minuets until I light my first cigarette, calm moods with complete lack of mood swings throughout the day.
To be honest I don't notice a big change, however my partner and my friends do. And I don't have to think about redecorating my flat every 6months or the problem of knocking over the full ashtray when drunk and having a fire in my sofa! Then again it took me 15 years, several weeks off work for respiratory problems and 2 trips to A&E due to the fact I couldn’t breathe. And there is still a bit of my brain that says its so cool?

12:37 / 16.02.04

i am trying to work my way towards quitting. For me, there's a real point in so doing, 'cos I have a stomach ulcer and puking blood's a real drag. (Failure to quit smoking is the most common reason for failure with ulcer treatments, I'm told. I have to be more careful of my health these days, and there's nothing like a good health scare to give one a good shove in the right direction.) I'd agree with what Deva says, there's little point in trying unless you want to stop. I've also found Allen Carr's book helpful. And finally, I'd say that what I'm finding out at the moment is that the psychology of smoking, the way it punctuates your day, the way it functions as an distraction in tense social situations or even as an escape from 'em ('I'm just nipping out for a fag' roughly translating as 'Dad, you're doing my fucking head in'), it's all this stuff which one needs to address, at least as much as one has to address the need for nicotine. This 'll be my third time trying to quit. I'm confident without being complacent that I'll get somewhere. Even if I don't, cutting down or stopping for a bit is hardly a bad thing.

12:51 / 16.02.04

Bill Posters - I agree with your point on the way that smoking functions in the average smoker's day. I think that finding other ways of 'punctuating' my routine was the hardest thing about giving up smoking. That, and not looking cool any more. I started dyeing my hair again, and just got my lip pierced. I 'joked' to a friend that it was probably due to feeling uncool without cigarettes, and then had a horrifying realisation that it could be true.
Terrifying epiphanies aside, it's been a relatively easy ride. And I can breathe properly again. Worthwhile, I think.

13:07 / 16.02.04

*ANYTHING* with the potential to cure one's bad breath should be encouraged. Dude, c'mon... ¬¬

gotham island fae

13:25 / 16.02.04

$40 more in my pocket every week. The ability to die dancing on my hundredth birthday the way my HGA told me I would. A very happy ex-girlfriend and family. A grand-dad with a modicum more respect for my choices. The ability to talk to people close without emitting a cloud of stink into their faces.

Thirty hours and counting...

14:24 / 16.02.04

Think of all the money it'll free up for lottery tickets.

Scrambled Password Bogus Email

14:35 / 16.02.04

14:52 / 16.02.04

Yeah, nice one money $hot!

Almost every time i try i get a fucking wild nightmare the first night. Last time it was a six foot cobra demon thing, it was fucking awful. I usually go a few months out of every year without cigs though, maybe this is an apt reminder that i haven't done one day yet.........

I gotta meet them demons in a lucid dream though, the pesky scamps.........

14:53 / 16.02.04

The main point of trying to give up is that you might.
The thing that worked for me was understanding that picking up a cigarette is a physical act. Nothing can compel you to do it. Everything else is an excuse.
That said, nicotine gum, regular gum and lollies helped, particularly in the pub.

Cloned Christ on a HoverDonkey

19:42 / 16.02.04

I'd say there's a helluva lot more point to giving up smoking than there is to actually smoking in the first place.

Until Jan 5th this year I was smoking between 30 and 40 per day, which was costing me around £270 per month. (!) Didn't even particularly want to give up, but thought I'd give it a go just to stop my wife nagging. Honestly, it's been really fucking easy, much to my surprise and wonderment. Have already noticed how much more money I've got, how much more delicious food is, how I don't view journeys or visits to public buildings as nicotine-depleted wastelands of time, how I can run up stairs without panting when I'm done, how I can kiss my son without feeling immense guilt, etc...

I think I might actually have cracked it this time (after innumerable previous attempts, like, at least 8 attempts) and I used to absolutely love smoking. The thing is, it is pretty cool, it is enjoyable, but that's about it as far as plusses go - I won't even begin to list the negatives.

And yes, I do think that an unbearable smugness is an integral part of a successful attempt at quitting smoking.

20:44 / 16.02.04

And finally, I'd say that what I'm finding out at the moment is that the psychology of smoking, the way it punctuates your day, the way it functions as an distraction in tense social situations or even as an escape from 'em

...and other myths that your addiction tells you in order to justify it's self-sustaining existence. It's easy to tie yourself up in knots trying to really understand the complex array of behavioral responses connected to your cigarette cravings, all of which tends to do absolutely fuck all towards actually helping you quit.

If you sincerely want to quit smoking just don't physically put a cigarette in your mouth and light it up. All of the other shit will take care of itself in due course. Quitting smoking is made out to be such a big deal, like this impossible obstacle that takes gargantuan ammounts of willpower to overcome, a fierce struggle that will leave you and your entire lifestyle radically changed forever. But all of that's really just a load of bollocks, and you're setting yourself up to fail before you've even started if you continue to buy into that sort of comforting myth.

If you just approach it as if it's not really that big a deal, your chances of quitting will be much higher. Quitting smoking is blatantly not as difficult as popular culture would have you believe, at least that was my experience anyway. Nicotine patches and gum are for the weak, in my day we had vodka and self harm, etc...

22:11 / 16.02.04

Make a list of all the positive things you get out of smoking. Be honest and exhaustive in writing down your reasons. Then ask your imagination to figure out a way or ways that you can get all that good shit without cigarettes. And don't settle for half-measures: it has to be something that fulfills the criteria equally or more than smoking does. Once that's done it may be a lot easier to give up, and you'll find your own way of quitting rather than getting some fairly useless advice from people.

For example, I heard one story about a woman who started smoking in her forties, which is extremely rare (statistically, most people start as teenagers). She'd been a non-smoker all her life, and first lit up just after her best friend died of lung cancer. It turns out that every time she had one she felt as though her friend was still with her. She didn't stop until she'd dealt with the grief, and when she did she quit instantly.

This is why Gypsy's post about ignoring the psychological reasons and 'just' quitting is unmitigated horseshit that he should be ashamed of. It may have worked for you and one other person that I know, but don't assume that one size fits all. '...At least that was my experience anyway:' remember that it was your experience. For a lot of people their beliefs and identity are linked to smoking. They may not get very far at all if they don't honour and respect that.

Jesus. Do you honestly look at all the people who try and fail to quit in that way? They're doing the best they know how, they just don't know the best way.

22:16 / 16.02.04

It may be overly simple, but its true. Do not pick up, and you wont keep smoking. Not that I really have a clue what Im talking about. I smoked for about a week then quit. Long term habit, oh yes.

Goodness Gracious Meme

22:18 / 16.02.04

GL, that may have been yr way of doing it but won't neccessarily work for everyone. I *totally* disagree that understanding 'why' you smoke is pointless.

But agree with Deva that it's probably pointless unless you WANT to. This'll be my second time, last time I didn't want to, this time I really do. Maybe you can while still wanting to, but its a damn sight harder.

(I had a horrible health scare, which demonstrated that my 28 y-o lungs are in a worse state than those of my 78-y-o uncle. and where I couldn't lift my head up/had to be carried about for three days due to respiratory problems.)

As, I think FM said, it's about a series of small decisions not to smoke. it's not each specific decision that's difficult, it's doing it over and over again.

At which point I've found that understanding what you use smoking *for* can be bloody useful in finding replacements/substitutes.

I'm using knitting. (only two needles, maaaan) as I realised that for me alot of smoking is about fidgety hands and boredom. Also social awkwardness (as in if waiting on my own for someone, i'd feel more comfortable if smoking). And knitting covers all of those, and i'll end up richer, healthier and with a big snuggly blanket.

And thus far, I've gone from probably 15-20 a day for the last couple of years to 3 in the past 5 weeks. And have managed several of my 'tied to smoking' situations (barbemeets, meeting up with my 'smoking friends') fagless.

I also went through this odd mourning process, did anyone else get this?

(talking with friends, one of them said he'd had it also.) Where, when I was deciding I wasn't a smoker anymore, that regardless of whether i had the odd moment of weakness, I wouldn't say 'fuckit' and start again', I felt sad, like I was really going to miss it, a minor loss process.

Which is where it's a fucking vile addiction, if it can make you feel that.

I can sympathise with the 'cool' thing also. And may well be taking the hairdye/tattoo route on that, while realising how pathetic that is.

22:29 / 16.02.04

Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow...
It's nasty, pointless and yet it engenders such a horrible frustration with life (cf. O. Wilde) that I'm sure there are many great works of art and inventions which would never have come about were it not for the fact that these things make you feel (essentially) like you AREN'T DOING ENOUGH AND NEVER WILL. Then again, they sap all real ability to do anything.
I feel a Macbeth 'Porter' speech coming on. Neither the speech nor the tobacco are big or clever (or funny), yet everyone loves them.

02:34 / 17.02.04

I'm quit as of a week ago and it's been touch and go. I have "cheated" on small occassion but am now thinking of really putting it aside. I've just found that cigs have been causing me more anxiety than they seemed to be taking away. Occurred to me after the third or fourth day and an interesting revelation.

Good luck to all those considering it. I waited until I got moved into my new place and it's been a good shift to take advantage of when trying to change habits. Less worries about paying rent, if anything...

02:52 / 17.02.04

On the one hand, I could say that there isn't any real point in even trying to stop smoking because we're all going to die anyway.

On the other hand, I remember my grandfather dying of lung cancer and emphysema. How soon do you want to leave this world, and how miserable, painful and helpless would you like your last months to be?

I suggest you buy nicotine gum. Even if you keep the nicotine addiction, it seems a healthier and more socially-acceptable delivery method. One of the favorite catchphrases from frequent nicotine highs: Go the Gum!

Symptoms of workplace nicotine gum use (from my experience): dancing in the office, drinking coffee while chewing gum, endless chatter, repetitious chanting of catchphrases, fidgetting, increased productivity, pay rises. If you notice three or more of these symptoms in one of your friends or colleagues, borrow some gum from them.

07:15 / 17.02.04

Okay, that was a slightly facetious title for a thread, but what I meant was this - I've been thinking about giving on and off for a while now, up after what is now about sixteen years, and while I'm totally aware of the various benefits ( more cash in pocket, baby soft lungs in a couple of years, no more dreams about black horses and cancer, ) I just wonder, as well, if they're going to be enough to outweigh the potential negatives ( irritability, weight gain, no more cig breaks at work, fidgeting nervously in public places, not really too sure what to do with your hands, plus the creeping feeling of having GIVEN IN to the increasingly shrill anti-cigarette lobby, to that clown Tony Blair, etc, etc. ) I realise that a lot of this is probably to do with issues related to adolescent self-image ( the smoker as outsider, observing the world at one stage removed through the screen of his fag, the smoker as outsider literally these days, lurking around on the office car park, or outside the house at semi-intolerable family occasions, ) which I really ought to put behind me now, but then again, then again... Thus far I've had no real health problems, friends and family don't seem all that bothered, in fact I think they'd probably just go into shock, and, as with not going to the gym, being opposed to the football, you could probably write your own list, it seems so tied up with this persona I've ( inadvertenty ? ) constructed over the years, that it seems in a way I'd be a bit lost without it. You know, who would I be ? God only knows, that seems pathetic, when down in cold type, but I've got a horrible feeling it's quite close to the truth. The cigarette as existential prop ? I mean, Jesus...

07:43 / 17.02.04

I know what you mean Alex. Like you, I know all the reasons I should give up, but there's something that makes me cling onto the habit. With me, having given up alcohol several years ago, and drugs being a once-in-a-blue-moon thing, I have the nasty feeling that the only reason I smoke is that it is now my only vice and damn it I want at least one vice. That's a terrible reason to carry on.

08:59 / 17.02.04

Seth - i don't think the 'just quit' route is unmittigated horseshit, afterall it seemed to be the only way that worked in this completely unscientific example but I do agree that one size does not fit all. Having said that i'm not terriblely convinced appeasing cravings with cigarette substitutes is an effective, practical way to go about giving up. As the BBC article appears to suggest - it really comes down to having the desire and will to quit.

09:36 / 17.02.04

mmm.. this is tough. Let's see what we have here... on one side, potential painful slow death by an assorment of particularly Nasty Diseases (gangrene, blinding goo coming out of your eyes, cancers of all flavours etc). On the other, not knowing what to do with your hands.

Let me think. I'll post as soon as I make my mind up. Cristo rei, dê-me forças...

10:48 / 17.02.04

Yes, it is a tough and strange little problem Jade. Do you not think that practically everyone who does smoke knows the downsides? And yet they continue to smoke, which rather indicates to me that it isn't the straightforward 'on the one hand bad on the other good' decision that you are making it. Having confronted one addiction in my life I think I'm in a position to say that a rational, logical argument about health, wealth, and happiness is going to get you nowhere in convincing some people to stop smoking. With others it will work though, so keep slapping out that rotting lung you keep in your bag.

11:05 / 17.02.04

Rational, logical arguments *work*. If you can put your head in the right mindset, they can work fucking *miracles* out for you.

But all this talk is irrelevant - Alex doesn't seem to be in a position of *having* to choose at this point. I guess when the stakes get higher, some years ahead (if they do, and I hope they don't), the weight of the situation itself will probably help Alex re making up his mind quicker.

11:16 / 17.02.04

Rational, logical arguments *work*. If you can put your head in the right mindset, they can work fucking *miracles* out for you.

Yes, I would agree with that. It's a question of being receptive to the arguments.

And as for 'having to stop' I think that there is a point to be made that the really serious downsides of smoking are, for the most part, an abstraction in the future, something that you can convince yourself might not happen for you. With other addictions you are actually experiencing some pretty horrific things at the time, which can give you more of a spur to take action.

11:32 / 17.02.04

They're doing the best they know how, they just don't know the best way.

Not physically buying them or lighting them up might be start.

I'll get back to this at some point as I probably didn't express my point as clearly as I could have - was operating on 1 hour of sleep yesterday so not at my most lucid and obviously in a bit of a shit stirring mood. Don't really have the time today to address this properly, but my main point is that I personally managed to quit by shifting my focus towards eliminating the basic physical actions of smoking rather than engaging with the choronzonic mass of internal psychological responses that the process of quitting tends to produce. It effectively shift the battle onto a different front. I found this approach useful, chances are I'm not unique in that regard.

11:43 / 17.02.04

Gypsy's thing is not even the only available example of how a different mindset, a different way to look at things, might be helpful.

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