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The Sopranos Season 5 (SPOILERS)

 
  

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Matthew Fluxington
20:04 / 13.02.04
I am so excited for this.

The season begins on Sunday, March 7th with "Two Tonys," which introduces Tony's ex-con cousin Tony Blundetto, played by Steve Buscemi. The titles of the next three issues seem to deliberately stimulate speculation: "Rat Pack," "Where's Johnny?," and "All Happy Families..."
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
20:11 / 13.02.04
Ooooooooh! I've never quite managed to get in to this show, which annoys me a little. I think I need to watch the other series' properly, it always seems I can never quite manage to catch it when it's on.

But Steve Buscemi? Called Tony? This I just need to see. I hope he's really sleazy.

As an aside, before all the action begins, what series are we up to over here, on C4?
 
 
Issaiah Saysir
20:13 / 13.02.04
Steve Buschemi gets off the directors seat and into the spotlight?


sweeeeeet

*Quick question:

I have noticed the series seems to be based on synchronicities taking place in Tony Soprano's life - cause and effect. My question is: In season 2, Tony made the decision to have Ritchie Aprile whacked (ooooh!) - he orders Silvo to 'make it happen'. Next scene, JAnice, Tony's sister and Ritchies then fiance, provokes Ritchie until he slaps her. Janice leaves the room and locates a convienent gun nearby - Ritchie joins his brother. Could it be that Janice fufilled the hit...knowingly???
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
21:03 / 13.02.04
No way. The entire point is that Janice murdered Richie because she's impulsive and prone to doing terrible things when she's emotionally compelled to. Also, Richie was being a total prick to her. He did deserve what was coming to him. She used Richie's gun. He's a pretty reckless guy, so it makes sense that he'd just have it out lying around.
 
 
LDones
00:19 / 14.02.04
Fucking Janice. I swear.

I'm really looking forward to this. I've read a lot of folks say they felt Season 4 was the weakest arc yet and I think they're insane. That season finale blew my fucking mind with some of the best acting I've seen in anything in quite awhile. I'm really looking forward to this...

Re: Steve Buscemi, I'm always a bit hesitant when a show begins introducing major new characters in its last seasons (see X-Files) but I've got more than enough faith in Chase, Gandolfini et al to pull it all off in an elegant way.

On a side note, David Chase has said concretely that the missing Russian from Pine Barrens and Furio are both gone for good.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
01:23 / 14.02.04
Season 4 = The best season. Of anything. Ever.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
01:25 / 14.02.04
And of course the Russian guy is gone. He's probably dead. And he was significant for exactly one episode. He's a background detail. To focus on what happened to him misses the entire point of that episode!
 
 
PatrickMM
03:53 / 14.02.04
I finished season four a couple of weeks, and loved it. The Carmela/Furio arc was one of my favorite parts of the entire series, and just played so well for her character. Furio almost pushing Tony in to the helicopter blades in the second to last episode was one of the best scenes of the series. And Tony and Carmela's argument in the last episode was some of the best acting I've ever seen. I don't see where the bad reputation for this season comes from, I think it was a beautiful slow burn character study.

And with that, I can't wait for season 5 to start. And, I really need to find some one near me with HBO.
 
 
PatrickMM
03:57 / 14.02.04
And I agree with Flux, what is the obsession with the Russian guy? Pine Barrens was a great episode, but the Russian was basically a maguffin (sp) and it's really the mystery of whether he's alive or dead that made the episode interesting.

Furio not returning has me a bit annoyed, but I think it's probably better that way. Furio was basically idealized in Carmela's mind, so the real version could never live up to what she had in mind. He's a way out for her.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
17:12 / 15.02.04
I think that the problem that a lot of people have with Season 4 is that it just wasn't violent and mobby enough for some tastes. The first two seasons set up an expectation that you'd be seeing people getting whacked every episode, and a lot of badass mob stuff - the kind of thing certain people can live vicariously through. The tone shifts in the third season, and moreso in the fourth as the writing gets better and better - there's more and more tension, and the violences is more rare but far more intense. I think this especially drove the more lowbrow end of the audience nuts in season 4, because there's a lot of tension and lots of things that ALMOST happens: Johnny ALMOST has Ralph killed, Johnny ALMOST has Tony's guys kill Carmine. The Furio/Carmela thing and the Pie O My storyline seemed extraneous to some people at the time, but they had no idea how all of that would pay off in the final third of the season. Season 4 rewards the patient, and it's all about subtlety.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
17:18 / 15.02.04
About Furio - and there are some minor SPOILERS here - from one of the promos which has aired on HBO indicates, Tony has his people after Furio, so if Furio comes out of hiding, he's a dead man. He's taunting Carmella with this information.
 
 
PatrickMM
02:50 / 16.02.04
The promos that Flux mentions are up on HBO.com now, and judging from the promos, the season's going to be quite good. There are so many issues out there to be resolved, and then you throw Buscemi in the mix, it's all good.

And the promo pic on HBO's Sopranos site looks very, very cool, right up there with season 4's diner pic. I don't know how they pull it off, but everyone in these pics looks dirty, yet incredibly cool. In that pic, I can see Ralphie, Pussy and Richie dead, but who's the woman against the boat, and are those just random naked people, or characters from previous years?
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
14:20 / 16.02.04
That woman against the boat is Gloria Trillo, who Tony had an affair with in season 3, and killed herself in season 4.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
15:01 / 16.02.04
Hey, what happened at the end of season 4? That was the one I actually tried watching, but I kept missing episodes by accident.

I think I missed a couple right at the end. The last one's I remember are when Tony killed Ralphie and the one after that, I think.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
17:12 / 16.02.04
After Ralph died, Tony became more and more unstable and nasty to everyone around him, and he quits going to therapy with Dr. Melfi. Janice and Bobby's relationship became more serious, Christopher was forced to go into rehab, and Paulie hit rock bottom in a desperate attempt to win back Tony's favor. Uncle Junior may be coming down with Alzheimer's, and was delivered a mistrial in court. Johnny Sack tries to convince Tony to have his people kill his boss Carmine (which would make Sack the boss of his NYC family), but Tony backs out at the last moment.

The biggest thing, though, is that at the end of the final episode of the season, Carmella and Tony break up and become legally separated.
 
 
LDones
17:30 / 16.02.04
I've never actually seen the Sopranos on HBO - I've picked up all the DVD boxes over the past two years and watched all of season four over a period of about a week, so I don't get quite as much of a serial perspective on it.

That having been said, I really felt like Tony was behaving very well for him all through the fourth season. Aside from Ralph, and the occasional Pie-O-My related tantrum, he seemed to keep an even head the majority of the time - particularly with Christopher, Meadow, and even Carmela in the final episode, considering the situation (wall-smashing notwithstanding).

Obviously he's a psychopath, but I couldn't help feeling as though he had matured a great deal after the whole. The moment in the Columbus Day episode where he tells everyone in the car to just stop whining and take responsibility for themselves brought a smile to my face.

I'm a bit surprised that he has his guys gunning for Furio, but I can't wait to see where it goes. Season Four was so fucking phenomenal, so nuanced and respecting of the characters and the audience... Three weeks...
 
 
Issaiah Saysir
19:27 / 16.02.04
And of course the Russian guy is gone. He's probably dead. And he was significant for exactly one episode. He's a background detail. To focus on what happened to him misses the entire point of that episode!

Rumor has it that hanging plotline will be wrapped up this season - as well as the dream sequences of Ton's death in season 2 ( ever wonder why his family didn't show up when he commits suicide by torching himself???)

No way. The entire point is that Janice murdered Richie because she's impulsive and prone to doing terrible things when she's emotionally compelled to. Also, Richie was being a total prick to her. He did deserve what was coming to him. She used Richie's gun. He's a pretty reckless guy, so it makes sense that he'd just have it out lying around

On the contrary, he had just returned home so it would have a) been on his person or b) in the hiding spot in the bedroom.

Apart from Janice....how about this one? When Junior orders Tony to make Ralphie a boss and demote Gigi from his Cappo position - before Tony can do anything,Gigi hemorages and dies on the toilet.

Cause and effect...er,in effect.
 
 
LDones
00:22 / 17.02.04
David Chase has specifically said the Russian won't be back (certainly he could change his mind...). And I hardly think its unfathomable that Janice has/had her own gun. And Tony's family 'doesn't show up' because it's a dream and he's a human being with a stunted sense of self-worth and a severe complex about being abandoned by his family unit(s). He's not a clairvoyant predicting some hackneyed future. I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make about 'cause and effect' - it's fiction, whereby Things happen and then (gasp) other Things happen. These kinds of glorious anticlimaxes that some fans take such issue with are part of what makes the show great.

The writers of the show work very hard not to satisfy simple, easy formulas and narrative devices. They have more respect in the material for their characters, actors, and audience than that, a very elegant hand - which is what makes it such an exciting and extraordinary piece of work.
 
 
wicker woman
05:37 / 17.02.04
Matthew Fluxington wrote:
::Season 4 = The best season. Of anything. Ever.::

Except for Sports Night, of course. All of it.
 
 
wicker woman
05:42 / 17.02.04
See, there's supposed to be a quote there from earlier in the thread, when he said Season 4 was the best thing ever. Demonstrably false thing that it was.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
11:36 / 08.03.04
Okay. We can really begin with this now.

I've only seen the new episode once, and here's some reaction:

* It was a pretty good episode, and probably the best season opener to date, given that the first episode of the season is usually one of the weaker ones for this series. I liked how things picked up from season four pretty quickly without too much exposition, while reaquainting us with all of the key characters.

* I enjoyed the subplot with Christopher and Paulie a lot, even though I initially was thinking "wait, aren't they over this?," but having them get over it by the end of the episode was nice. The whole thing provided us with a reminder that Christopher is still working his way up, and that Paulie is an obstinate prick, while giving the episode some needed comedic relief. That scene in the parking lot was pretty classic.

* Everything with Carmella and AJ was fantastic. I'm very happy with the direction they are taking Carmella in, and I'm in awe of Edie Falco's acting.

* I like that we see Tony coming full circle - he's full of himself and cocky, more like how he was in the beginning of the series. He's regressing. The whole thing with Melfi is troubling, but I think we all saw it coming. I get the feeling that something very horrible is going to happen to Melfi by the time this series is over.

* I quite like Robert Loggia's character. I'm very excited for next week, when we get to meet Steve Buscemi's character, Tony B.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
11:42 / 08.03.04
Oh yeah, I love how they dismissed the whole missing Russian thing from "Pine Barrens" with a flip "who cares?" Perfect.
 
 
LDones
06:00 / 09.03.04
I was very pleased.

Thank GOD Melfi turned him down. Jesus, I was worried for that woman's well-being, though I shouldn't say I'm not still. It moved very fast for a Sopranos season opener.

I got a bit of a 'Return of the Ducks' vibe from Tony when he found out about the bear - I'm wondering if he wants to protect his wayward family from it or adopt it into his care. The final shot with him in the lawn chair was nicely neutral on the subject for me.

I love how little they say about what's going on in any given scene, so classy. It's the finest television on... television.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
11:02 / 09.03.04
I was thinking about that too - the show is very light on exposition, but it's never confusing. They give you enough to know what's happening, and they don't spell it all out for you as though you are a child. A good example: they never have any line which states "Bobby and Janice are married" but the situation is clear, and Janice losing the ring verifies your suspicion. They never make a big deal about Tony living in his mother's old house either - if you've been watching the show, you'll recognize the place, if not, it's not too important.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
18:30 / 09.03.04
Watched the episode again - oh my god, that grenade is totally going to come back later on, isn't it?
 
 
PatrickMM
19:53 / 18.03.04
Being without HBO, I've been Kazaaing the new episodes, and the first one finally finished last night.

I thought it was a phenomenal episode, and it was great to be back in that world. It really did a good job of letting us know what's happening with everyone, without making it too obvious, but that wasn't what made this great.

The relationship between Tony and Melfi has been so complex over the course of the series, and this episode just added some more layers. I think their relationship is one of the best examples of how most of the time the best way to create drama is to not give people what they want. The whole time, I was hoping on some level that Tony would just act really civil to her, and that she would accept his offer of a date, and it would go well. I think it's something about the brutish character being forced to act civilized, you want him to succeed, even where you know he'll fail.

But, getting them together, while it would give some interesting stories, doesn't make any sense character-wise. If Melfi has any common sense, she wouldn't get at all involved with him, and all her complaints were proven accurate when Tony stormed out at the end.

Their relationship reminded me a bit of Buffy/Spike, when Spike was just willing to do anything to make her like him, and he kept wearing her down. And similarly, as a viewer, you want them to be happy, but there's no intersting story there, by making their relationship a source of pain, it becomes much more interesting. And, similarly, by keeping Tony and Melfi apart, it is much more interesting story-wise than putting them in a happy relationship.

What I'm really interested in is to see where it goes from here, since I'm assuming if Tony isn't in therapy, and Melfi remains on the show, they're going to have some kind of relationship, romantic or not.

So, hopefully that next episode will download quick, I'm not used to having to wait between episodes, being a DVD viewer, so this is going to be a bit harsh.

Also, why is it that every article on the series seems to mention something like, "Chase refuses to tie up all loose ends, like the Russian in the woods." There's no reason to resolve the Russian storyline, it's not even a storyline, it's just a mcguffin. What kind of resolution could there be, just he's alive, or he's dead. Or, he's alive and coming back to kill Paulie! It's like asking what's in the box in Pulp Fiction, the whole point of it is the mystery.

Furio on the other hand, is a loose end, that should be wrapped up.
 
 
LDones
11:29 / 19.03.04
I don't have much to say on the second episode this season (Rat Pack) except that Steve Buscemi's performance was very relaxed, mature, very rewarding to watch. I liked that he was making an effort to be understanding of the emotional craziness (and neediness) Tony's going through, despite being pissed off by it. It's a performance that tells you more about the character than can be said, which is one of the hallmarks of the series. I still don't think it's going to go well for him, though.

I'm also worried about what's going to happen now that Carmine's dead. Robert Loggia's gonna start some shit, I think.
 
 
PatrickMM
23:37 / 31.03.04
I just watched the fourth episode, and completely loved it. The Tony/Carmela dynamic is completely altered from the previous years, and their scenes together are much more intense. I'm thinking that with Anthony Jr. now living with Tony, we might see him start to be exposed to the business a bit more, and that's got some great dramatic possibilities. And, that exchange between Tony and Anthony about the Spanish homework at the end was so simple, and yet so much changed with that one line. This season is consistently excellent so far.
 
 
LDones
00:51 / 01.04.04
I loved how they handled the Robert Loggia business. Tony still seems to be making relatively healthier decisions, but I'm worried about this Melfi shit, and AJ.
 
 
PatrickMM
00:23 / 18.04.04
Just watched Sentimenal Education. This season is in a lot of ways more intense than any previous one. It feels like in each episode, everyone is in a volatile situation, and even though it never completely blows up, there's so much emotional damage being done. I feel like there's a lot of threads being developed, and they'll probably come to a head at the end of the season.

When Buscemi assaulted the Korean guy, it was one of the toughest scenes for me to take. Going to back to the Christopher screenwriting arc in season 2, and even the Adrianna arc now, the thing that I like most about the show is the characters who are trying to get out of the life, and it's really hard to watch when they never do. When he hit that guy, all the work he'd done went by the wayside, and he doomed himself.

And the Carmela plotline touched on something that's been under the surface the entire series, the idea that Carmela used her position just as much as Tony did, and Wegler pointed out that now she's using the only weapon she has left. Her threat to him as she was leaving could potentially foreshadow a lot.

And that last line, "Don't do business with strangers," that's the entire series right there, these people can't get out of the life, it's all around them, and they can't get out.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
02:31 / 19.04.04
Ha ha!

I saw them shoot that Emmy scene in a jewlery store in my neighborhood (Astoria, Queens) like six or seven months ago. I figured it was some kind of Emmy promo but right when Ken Daly showed up as a writer, I knew where it was headed. I can't believe that was Ken Daly! In my neighborhood! Next to my grocery store!

And shit, did not Buscemi direct this episode! Wow! I saw the director's seat and everything!

Anyway. This was a top drawer friggin' episode. That 70's Tone.
 
 
dawn13
22:12 / 01.05.04
Did anyone else notice the grenade was gone when Carmela went to get the gun???
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
13:16 / 03.05.04
Gee, I wonder if the bear is supposed to somehow, in a way, symbolize Tony Soprano himself?

Other than that hamhandedry, that was a fantastic episode last night. I loved the Meadow/Finn Grad Student Relationship Argument.

And Tony's session. WOw.
 
 
Issaiah Saysir
17:37 / 12.05.04
I think the bear is Tony's totem.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
02:10 / 24.05.04
WHOA.

WH. OA.

So, anyone ever seen The 25th Hour?

Tee.
 
  

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