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Underground > Comic Books >

The problem I have with Iron Man

08:11 / 13.02.04

He's not really a robot is he? There's a man in there. That's a damn shame.

08:53 / 13.02.04

hense the name 'Iron MAN' as opposed to - 'iron robot'

I really do think there is a lot of potential in Iron man, tragically it is seldom realised...

09:21 / 13.02.04

cripple, alchy, mullett, arms dealer, worked for the Company in Nam - he's not much of a man.

09:44 / 13.02.04

His suit's not made of iron anymore either.

09:46 / 13.02.04

His mustache has never been up to much either. Most teenage boys can do better.

10:27 / 13.02.04

Well I know he's Iron Man but I still think he should be a robot. Wasn't Black Sabbath's Iron Man a robot?

11:07 / 13.02.04

Is this thread going to be about comics or is it best moved to the conversation?

Matthew Fluxington

12:03 / 13.02.04

No, leave it here. This definitely belongs in the comics forum.

If we're going to talk about the flaws of Iron Man, how about the fact that he's a total drunk flying around in a suit of armor? How does he not fuck that up?

13:07 / 13.02.04

i love Iron Man as a character despite all his many obvious flaws as a character.

however, the one thing i always found bizarre about the whole concept is that, after many years of "field testing" the "prototype" Iron Man armor under extraordinarily arduous conditions, he still hasn't gone to market. i mean, at what point does he say "well, i've scrapped with supervillains, aliens, demons, gods, and the fucking HULK, and i'm still alive. so, umm, yeah: it works. it works really fucking well, actually."

i know it's been quasi-addressed in the Armor Wars storylines and such, and, obviously, the main reason is that you can't write a monthly about Iron Man when there are tons of them around, but there's really no plausible way that the Iron Man armor wouldn't have been mass-produced by now. or at least produced in a limited run and worn by people other than billionaire playboy Tony Stark.

13:36 / 13.02.04

Hey Bed Head, I thought he WAS a teenager ? Didn’t they take his young self forward in time to defeat his evil older self, and leave the young one playing hero ?

(The vague nature of the above is probably a dead giveaway to the fact I never read these comics, just saw the Previews write-ups and steered clear.)

14:19 / 13.02.04

The teen Tony thing thankfully got dumped a few years back. He's regular adult Tony Stark now.

Has anyone been reading the current book? I've read it in the store recently, seems to be a halfway decent attempt at making Iron Man more political a la The West Wing -- Tony Stark, after unmasking to the world that he's really Iron Man and encountering legal problems because of his dual identity and actions he performed as Iron Man, tries to become Secretary of Defense.

14:40 / 13.02.04

Does Tony Stark still have a heart condition?

14:58 / 13.02.04

Did they really do that Iron-teen thing? Are you serious? That’s a fucking mental plot device.

Still, aside from Ultimate Iron Man sporting a VanDyke as some kind of twisted concession to 'modernity', pretty much every time during my life I’ve actually read an Iron Man comic he’s had a teenage mustache. Even my favourite Iron Man of the whole sorry bunch, ie the fearsome Iron Man of 2020 in BWS’s Machine Man had a shitty pencil mustache, it’s as if the armour won’t work without one or something. Otherwise what’s the point? He wears a full face mask. Batman sporting a mustache, that would make sense. If it’s a matter of personal style, Tony Stark should get the felt tips out and draw a mustache on the Iron Man helmet, too.

I’m loving Flux’s concise summing up of the essence of what Iron Man is, and am now picturing him as played by George W Bush during his military ‘service’, just a drunk playboy millionaire twat buzzing around Texas blowing up wombats with the most expensive armour the military can buy, while a real war happens someplace else.

Murray Hamhandler

15:00 / 13.02.04

My problem w/Iron Man is that he touched me wrong when I was twelve.

15:17 / 13.02.04

>> Even my favourite Iron Man of the whole sorry bunch, ie the fearsome Iron Man of 2020 in BWS’s Machine Man had a shitty pencil mustache

yeah, BWS' Machine Man series (and his Iron Man version) truly kicked ass.

20:11 / 13.02.04

he's a total drunk flying around in a suit of armor

no, he's a respected businessman flying around in a suit of armor. Allegations that he's intoxicated, or unfit in any way to have a quasi-thermonuclear device strapped to his back, are slanderous, good sir. You shall be hearing from Stark's lawyers, no doubt.

I like the G.W.B comparison, though. Stark doesn't do jack; the armor's controlled by the Board of Directors, who fight over the controller like eight-year olds at an unsupervised birthday party for "the rich kid". by this point, Stark probably doesn't even pilot the armor himself; he just knocks back sixteen martinis in rapid succession and falls into an anthropomorphic tin can. Said can is remote controlled by some random teenager duped into believing he's beta-testing the latest Xbox Live technology. Hey! Teen Tony! I get it now...

Matthew Fluxington

20:18 / 13.02.04

Solid State, your post should be the basis for Iron Man: The Movie.

20:58 / 13.02.04

Thank you kindly, but Hollywood may have other ideas.

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

17:58 / 14.02.04

Iron Man is one of those character who in the hands of good creators is a REALLY good comic, and when he's just being caretaken, is the most boring character imaginable.

In the 60's, he was pretty much a "Anti-commie" James Bond type without all the odd things that made Bond cool. Then a LONG period int he 70's when he was just a standard super-hero followed by a couple of good runs by Micheline and Layton where they gave Tony a personality, and dove into the "go go 80's business owner" fantasy for a while.

Dennis O'Neil actually did the worst work of his career on the series. It was almost as if he said, "So, Tony Stark was an alcoholic? Aren't all alcoholics drunken stmblebums who live on the street? Well, this story will sure make you think so" and took 40 issues (and over 3 years) to tell.

Since then, it's better pretty up and down...but at the core of the series is that the comic is a kind fo wish fulfillment. Tony Stark is a rich playboy whyo is also a genius with a SECRET. Simplistic, but the more crap they pile on the character, the less it works.

The one story idea that was glossed over that I liked was when he went from making weapons to becoming a pacifist...that could have been good.

And why is it that every time they update the armor anymore, the less attractive it looks?

ONLY NICE THINGS

13:50 / 15.02.04

Tony Stark should get the felt tips out and draw a mustache on the Iron Man helmet, too.

I believe it was Cicero who said that there was no idea so utterly ridiculous that a philosopher has not at some time had it. Well, to prove the reduplicability of this maxim, Dum-Dum Dugan's suit of War Machine armour does indeed have a moustache painted on the helmet. It also hasa jaunty hat. For the love of God.

A beautiful tunnel of ghosts

19:04 / 15.02.04

Re: Ultimate Iron Man - an alcoholic adrenalin junkie extravert with a brain tumour. How does he not fuckt [b]that[/b] up?

02:46 / 16.02.04

well, he's said he has a brain tumor. hasn't Millar said that he was probably just full of shit and trying to screw with Thor and Cap?

No star here laces

03:13 / 16.02.04

Who, let's face it, are such a pair of self-righteous pricks that it'd be difficult to resist fucking with them, particularly after a few martinis...

22:12 / 17.02.04

I just think therre is so much to play with with Iron Man.

He's a capitalist hero. You can play that concept straight or as a satire.

He is also the original superhero as brand (and in many ways he exists as the physical extention of Stark's company). The fact that IM tech largely hasn't reached the public can be played as being immaterial as long as IM himself remains 'cool' comitting spectacular acts 'shock and awe' crime prevention.

He can also be the superhero as comodity and as a comodity we can buy and participate in.

He's an flawed man, an (ex-)alcoholic billionaire playboy whose passions have got him into trouble on a number of occasions.

He is a man trapped in a machine- or at least this was the idea behind the original iteration of the character as well as the early 90s update where Stark was confined to a wheelchair.

He is a former arms trader, who has developed an ethical sales policy.

He is capable of placing himself above the law and indulging in vigilante justice when he feels the ends justifies the means. (viz armour wars) and has the money to insulate himself from most of the legal consequences.

And this is just off the top of my head...

22:15 / 17.02.04

He remains, steadfastly, not a robot though.

00:33 / 18.02.04

the one thing i always found bizarre about the whole concept is that, after many years of "field testing" the "prototype" Iron Man armor under extraordinarily arduous conditions, he still hasn't gone to market.

i was under the impression tha the couldnt give away the secrets to the armour because of his 'ethical' stance on arms. he does let S.H.I.E.L.D. use it, if i recall. along with all the guns and gizmos they fancy, and a big fuck off helicarier.

so no to the market, but yay to government contracts.

still no robot.

13:52 / 18.02.04

There was the Iron Man graphic novel in the mid-90s, "Crash", billed (arguably) as the first computer-generated comic (not entirely true. a computer only handled the art, IIRC).

*SPOILER WARNING FOR DECADE-OLD COMIC*
Anyway, it's the Future, Stark is impossibly old, kept alive by some immortality heroin or something, a total recluse, and a brand-name marketing juggernaut (Iron Man cereal, Adventures of Tony Stark cartoon, etc.). So he decides to finally sell the armor tech to SHIELD (which still has Nick Fury at the helm, making this the first computer generated comic about a pair of geriatrics). Of course, when the armor is sold to Fury, hackers have the plans all over the net in mere seconds. So Stark kicks the drugs, spends two pages putting the armor on, boots up his prototype sidekick, and goes to Japan to kick somebody's ass and blow up their corporate headquarters. Great fun. And it ends, ripe for sequel, with the aforementioned sidekick going off to find his way as a robot something-or-other.

05:41 / 19.02.04

I only ever read a few old comics until I read Quesada's excellent story "Mask in the Iron Man" when it was coming out. Things were looking up and I was enjoying the book until Tieri came and ruined it. I later realised that I didn't care for the character at all and would only read it if there was a writer worth reading on it.

I haven't read Mask in the Iron Man in years. I wonder if it's still any good. I did see a trade in Borders a while back.

23:23 / 17.03.04

'Tis said that Warren Ellis shall write it.

I do not know if he will be writing it as a robot.