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"Ethical or no?" poll

02:17 / 11.02.04

I can't be the only to ask these sorts of things, but I can try to be the first on Barbelith:

A prospective employer is paying travel costs for an interview. I have friends in the area. Ethical to schedule the trip earlier to combine business with pleasure or no?

02:24 / 11.02.04

If the trip will cost your company more if scheduled earlier, then unethical. Otherwise, it scans by me.

02:59 / 11.02.04

If it costs a little more to travel earlier, offer to pay the difference.

03:04 / 11.02.04

Sounds good to me, just make sure your sober for the interview or i'll flame you!

The resistable rise of Reidcourchie

09:48 / 11.02.04

A friend of mine who works for a large company recently screwed up completely the results or some extrememly expensive experiments. Instead of firing him for wasting tens of thousands of punds of money he was invited to go to Northern California dined and extensively wined (to the extent he went to most meetings drunk) on an all expenses paid trip to explain his failure.

We're unsure how this will encourage him to do his job competently.

You're worrying to much, try only to vcare for your employer as much as they care for you (though clearly this would be impossible for my above mentioned friend).

Ex

10:48 / 11.02.04

What a charming thread. I look forward to the first homicide confession and the subsequent Channel 4 shaky-cam docudrama.

In the meantime, can I have retrospective validation on my job ethics? I've just turned down a job offer for next September (graduate training post) because I know in the intervening period I would have been scrabbling for my One True Posting in another line of work entirely and I'd only have used them as a back-up plan.

(On the other hand, you could tell me that using someone as a fail-safe is perfectly reasonable behaviour and I might try it again with another job.)
This isn't the cut-throat world of international high finance, by the way; it's academic librarianship. I think sympathy for lovely librarians may have swayed my decision.

17:13 / 11.02.04

how long is it ethical to casually (i.e. no commitments) date someone who i don't have much interest in beyond hanging out sometimes and getting off, if it seems that he has some interest in me? is it ethical to, as he gets more 'into' the relationship, drop more unsavory tidbits about myself such as the medications i'm on, in an effort to get him to like me less? what if the tidbits are not exactly true, but exaggerated? how about just acting more crazy in general, to scare him off? totally wrong? it's all in an effort to not have to have a Talk w/him. is that wrong? *how* wrong?

i fuckin love this thread, in fact i was considering starting one.

19:36 / 11.02.04

Thank you all for the input. I am worrying too much about this.

Ex-
I might have explained the situation to them. Maybe they would not have minded hiring you on a temporary basis.

praying mantis-
I'd say moderately wrong, and add that from my exerience, you want to nip this earlier with a talk rather than later. The "things are too serious for me talk" is uncomfortable when they are starting to really like you, but unbearable when they're crying and demanding to know why you don't love them.

19:49 / 11.02.04

is it ethical to, as he gets more 'into' the relationship, drop more unsavory tidbits about myself such as the medications i'm on, in an effort to get him to like me less?

this is hysterical. i just keep picturing you and the guy sitting on the couch or something. there's a lull in conversation. then "so... i'm on clonapin and prozac*. could you pass me the chips?"

i would be worried that this tactic would backfire. if you're in a relationship with someone, and you confess something unappealing/weird/etc., it has a tendency to build up an atmosphere of deepening trust and intimacy, which sounds like it's exactly not what you're going for.

as far as the ethics of the whole thing go... i tend to be of mixed minds on this sort of thing. i'm a big believer in taking responsibility for yourself and your feelings in a relationship, so as long as you're being honest with him about yourself and what you want, and you're not leading him on, it's his choice to be involved with someone who may not reciprocate those feelings, and any emotional consequences of that decision are his responsibility.

but, well, on the other hand, if you know someone is doing something that is short-sighted and will end up hurting them in the end, is it ethical to aid and abet them in their self-destructive behavior?

the last time i was in this situation my partner insisted that she understood that she may be setting herself up to get hurt, but was more offended at the thought that i would break things off "for her own good" than she was at the idea of me continuing even when i didn't reciprocate her feelings. it struck her as patronizing and as undermining her right to make her own decisions about what kind of emotional risks she was willing to take.

of couse, YMMV.

* or whatever

21:01 / 11.02.04

thanks peeps for the responses. the thing is, it's way too soon and we're not involved enough for me to go, "what's up w/'us'? this is getting too serious." but i guess if it gets that way i'll do that. diz's ex brings up an interesting point, though. and i'm glad you found that image hilarious. i mostly mean to be funny when i am.

ex if you were in the u.s. i'd say, look out for number one, man! all the way! cos the job market sucks enough that it's a total employer's market. and it's good to have sympathy for librarians, but keep in mind it's not like yr getting hired for a ceo position where they'd expect you to be there for years and give them tons of notice were you to leave.

21:20 / 11.02.04

Re: the expenses thing
The people who are powerful enough to give you grief about something as small as this are unlikely to care. The ones who are lower down might notice, but _they_ do it all the time, and would not benefit from blowing the whistle. DO NOT WORRY ABOUT EXPENSES. EVER. If they have a problem, they can tell you later, and you can then pretend you'll never do it again. They won't.

Ex

10:13 / 12.02.04

I might have explained the situation to them. Maybe they would not have minded hiring you on a temporary basis.

Ta for the thought - but they spent the frst half of the interview grilling me about whether I wouldn't rather be workign in profession A. Nobody likes to be the fallback position. And to take up their offer then slope off to prof A five months down the line would really sting.

Thank you for the thought, M. Mantis. You're right, they're not offering me the joystick to the world, and it's only a one-year post. If anyone else offers, I'll take it up, but I couldn't do it to the adorable women's college.

And in return:
thanks peeps for the responses. the thing is, it's way too soon and we're not involved enough for me to go, "what's up w/'us'? this is getting too serious."
No! It's never too early to make your intentions clear. You can avoid having to have a Big Talk if you have lots of open information flowing between the two of you.
Really - I've met people who wanted to canoodle me long-term and people who wanted me to perform brief and nonverbal sexual favours, but the only person who has ever seriously annoyed me was the one who thought they would get the latter by immitating the former. Honesty shows you respect someone, even if you don't want to do much with them.
And it is really tricky when they (say they) don't mind that you don't want as much from your liaison, but you can make rigorously sure they're clued up, or your clean conscious will be spotted.

13:07 / 12.02.04

diz's ex brings up an interesting point

errr, actually, she's not my ex. we're in a very happy long-term relationship right now, with visits to the families and polka-dotted couches.

but a lot happened in between points A and B, so it's sort of a different relationship.

anyway.

EE

22:29 / 13.02.04

This thread is a good idea. Just steer clear of asking about whether or not the handicapped stall is a viable alternative for anyone looking for a bigger box to shit in.