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Best advice you've ever gotten from a non-magician

 
 
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02:45 / 05.02.04
About yesterday or so I was chatting with a good on-line friend I've known for some time (he's from Australia). Despite this person's young age (18) he is very smart and a pleasure to talk to. Yesterday we were discussing a problem I was having in real-life (see my thread "ever get the feeling the universe is playing a trick on you?" in the conversation section). He told me that I spent too much time reading and not enough time actually doing. He told me that I needed to live. I told him that I wanted to "become illuminated, transcend reality, become at one with nature". He told me that he was probably more illuminated and at one with nature then I was.

By this he meant that, though he was prone to angst, loneliness and self-doubt at times, for the most part he really got a lot out of life, had a stable group of friends, spent a lot of time outdoors with other people, etc. He told me that my life consisted of waking up, going to a job I despised, never going outside or having a social life, basically spending most of my time in my room (womb?) obsessing about my health and reading these self-liberation books.

How odd, I thought. Here is a person who is like me in many ways (especially in terms of musical taste and writers), but he's enjoying life, yet he knows nothing of magic, meditation, yoga, deconditioning yourself, etc. Whereas I do know about all this stuff, and I'm not enjoying life at all. What's wrong with this picture?

He told me that I needed to stop thinking about things and "Do It!" This really jolted me as "Do It!" is one of the slogans that appears in Christopher Hyatt's book "Undoing yourself with energized meditation and other devices", which I had just finished reading recently. And if all that wasn't enough, Robert Anton Wilson, in his intro to that book, said that he doubted most people who read Crowley ever actually tried out the exercises (that's me!) and that many people think that reading a self-liberation book alone will change their lives without them doing any work. This really struck home with me as I've read many of these type of chaos magic/self-liberation/brain programming books yet very rarely have I ever tried most of what those books advised... I'm trying to change that now, anyway.

I think my problem was, when I began dabbling with the occult when about 2 years or so ago, I was so eager to become "enlightened" that all I did was read. I realized I had a lot of catching up to do so I studied voodoo, the tarot, the qabalah, chaos magic, Crowley, what have you. But in my rush to gain knowledge I never really mastered any of these things because I was so overwhelmed by all this new mind-warping information. What I should have done was learned about one topic, tried it out a bit until I became comfortable with it, then try something else, rather then trying to become a jack of all trades and a master of none. At the time I had the erronous view that a magician should be a flawless person, but really what fun would that be? Now I try to take things slower and be more patient. Grant Morrison was 30 years old when he had his big life-changing abduction, and he had been practicing magic for about, what, 14 years or so by that point? I'm only 23 and have been practicing for only 2, so I guess I have all the time in the world.

Perhaps one needs to be comfortable in reality before you can transcend it, whatever that means. Or, maybe I should work on having a life instead of obsessing over these cosmological matters. Or better yet, get a life and integrate magic into it. Anyway, the time has come for action. To "Do It!", in other words.
 
 
Z. deScathach
05:55 / 05.02.04
Yeah, I know what you mean with that. Sometimes I wonder whether burying oneself in a ton of facts isn't part of the process. A person buries themselves in a ton of facts looking for the secret, then all of a sudden, get faced with the essential crappiness of their life. Who says the cosmos doesn't have a sense of humour? What happened to me is that life reached a cresceno of crappiness at which point I went for simplicity, and just persued the cultivation of stillness for awhile. Then I found out that when my mind was still, I could overlay anything that I wanted on "reality", whatever the hell reality is. Not only that, I discovered that there was a ton of stuff going on that I wasn't noticing while I was thinking about magick and spirituality. Stuff like birds singing, wind blowing. The crows that talk to me when I walk by them. I started to talk back to them. Life became at the same time elating, and depressing. I remember walking to a Walmart, and being overcome by ecstacy. It was as if a torrent of pleasure coursed through me. Better than any sex I've ever had. The depressing part? When I became able to feel what was going on inside people. What the whole thing taught me was to dance with the darkness rather than get rid of it. Last night, I had an awful dream relating to the untimely death of a loved one. There was a time when I would have tried to heal that. Instead, I chose to watch a movie about dying and redemption. I cried my eyes out through the whole thing. I've found that the things that I tried to get rid of, the painful things, are what makes me alive. That and really good sex.......
 
 
illmatic
08:18 / 05.02.04
I can relate to both the above posts so much. I’ve several “Doley Crowleys” over the years, controlling the universe from a small bedsit somewhere whille beating up their girlfriends – basically using magic and it’s outsider status as a justification for their own estrangement, alienation and general fuckedupness.(Having said that I’ve met some fucking great people as well – you know who your are). I can relate to z de Scaths’ post above about stillness and noticing the world – some of the best meditation practices I ever got shown was stuff that directed me to start using my senses and valuing my own experience over what I’d read. (This is something I don’t like about the Western mystery tradition – I think it can degenerate into an unchallenging headgame too easily all those correspondences, number and Hebrew names, this not to knock the whole of it obviously, it’s a beautiful tradition on a lot of levels). Our culture generally favours book learning over experiential knowledge, but it’s the latter which is important, IMO.

I think you can get magickal inspiration from anywhere, I got a lot from the brief period I spent counseling (related it to Thelema at the time, which probably said more about what I was reading than anything else but there you go..). Magick should take you toward the world, not build a little castle separate from it. A quote, I think: “Direct personal experience and good company are the two clear eyes of the seeker”. (Kularnava Tantra).Anyway, I think that’s a good realization you’ve had, you always struck me as quite open and self-aware in your posts, Sypha so enough waffle, go for it mate.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
18:09 / 05.02.04
At some point I want to write a pisstake magic book called 'Crowley for Dole-ies'. It'd be brilliant.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
22:39 / 05.02.04
I wanted to "become illuminated, transcend reality, become at one with nature".

I hate all of that shit about 'transcending reality'. What does it mean exactly? Can you point to someone who's accomplished it? Has Christopher Hyatt transcended reality? Grant Morrison? Robert Anton Wilson? Did Crowley transcend reality? Eliphas Levi? Dr Dee? Tommy Cooper? Cagliostro? I think 'transcending reality' is a term that gets bandied about in chaos magic circles but it doesn't seem to actually mean anything concrete. Although I do have it on good authority that if you buy enough books published by New Falcon and make sure you do all the excercises regularly, it's practically guaranteed. I actually think that the whole self-help branch of occultism, undoing yourself, de-conditioning yourself, reprogramming yourself, etc... can be really pernicious. It seems pretty common for people to get so distracted by doing these bloody little excercises that are meant to - in some vague and ephemeral way - free them from the oppressive tyranny of 'conditioning', that they end up missing out on loads of normal stuff that would be far more productive and healthy to try and engage with. "Sorry luv, I can't go with you on your private jet to the north pole for some interesting sex, I've got to stay in every night this week and concentrate on a green triangle, Dr Hyatt says it'll make me much happier in myself, and he's a professor you see, he knows stuff."

I don't doubt that you can hypnotise yourself really effectively into the firm belief that these little de-conditioning curriculums are sorting your life out, but is that whats really happening. My own experiences of life and magic don't really match up with this model that there is an A to B route of exercises that you can do to accomplish some kind of ultimate lasting transformation. Life does that for you anyway, magician or not. Not sure how much sense I'm making here, it's late and I'm tired.

What I should have done was learned about one topic, tried it out a bit until I became comfortable with it, then try something else, rather then trying to become a jack of all trades and a master of none.

Nah, I think you did right. There is no 'way' to approach magic other than the way that you end up walking. Maybe it was really important for you to go through that phase of embracing everything, in order to work out what it is that really floats your boat; maybe you're starting to identify a handful of areas that really interest you and which you'd like to look into in more detail over a period of years; and maybe when you've worked with one area of magic exclusively for a bit, you'll then need to go full circle and overload yourself with a bunch of new stuff. Chill, if you're in the game you've got your whole life to explore this stuff. Or if you happen to decide at any stage that it's not for you, then that's OK as well.
 
 
doc
09:40 / 13.02.04
I wanted to "become illuminated, transcend reality, become at one with nature".


...sounds fun...but remember to pay the gas bill and feed the cats
 
 
--
12:22 / 13.02.04
Well, when I mentioned "transcend reality" I was mainly taking the piss.
 
 
_Boboss
13:11 / 13.02.04
funny thread title this

most of the best advice in my life has come from my family and good friends, none of whom are maygiqkyans.

the mundane/magical division is utter fucking bollocks you know.
 
 
Rain
13:45 / 13.02.04
Hmm. (Strokes chin in a meaningful way...)
"The world is the part of heaven we can touch."
"Make no firm convictions concerning the reality or non- reality of phenomena."
Question: If we take the bollocks out of magic, is it still magic?
 
 
EE
22:47 / 13.02.04
Hell yes! I easily swallow the magic/mundane shit this way: I'm a magician. I can alter reality through will. But so can everybody else (they're doing it all the time), and I'm not that accomplished at it anyway. I'm about as good at magic as I am at flicking ciggarette butts. The difference between the two is only there if you want it to be.

And really, if I need advice, I don't often go to other magicians to get it. They usually have some ulterior motive anyway. I'm pretty sure the last one only tried to help me because he wanted to get in my pants very badly.
 
 
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00:31 / 14.02.04
Yeah, but sometimes it's comforting to talk to people who know about this shit. After awhile I get sick of trying to discuss these topics with non-magicians and end up just getting either blank stares or "what the fuck are you going on about?" Though I suppose that can be a good pretension-buster.

I have been meditating on exactly why I got into this stuff in the first place. was it to feel comfortable living in this world, or just the ultimate way to isolate myself from it? Did I become a magician because I generally wanted to do good or simply because I thought it would make me look cool? I've had an interest in the topic ever since I took out a book on black magic when I was in the second grade at grade school... I recall being scared that one of my friends would try to turn himself into a werewolf. Um... I read this book in high school on modern witches that interested me... Then it was GPO and groups like Throbbing Gristle and Coil when I was in college... Then "The Invisibles" and Crowley and chaos magic and all that other weird stuff.

Actually, I think at first I was just researching the topic because I wanted to spice up a short story I was working on at the time and thought magic would be a good way to do that. Then I decided to declare myself a magician. So far there have only been a few real big things that have happened to me, but I'm sure more will come in the future, hopefully. I do want to achieve contact with a higher intelligence at least.

Hey, might as well have something to tell the grandkids about one day.
 
 
Seth
11:08 / 15.02.04
This reminds me of the discussions I used to overhear in Church. Just replace non-magician with non-christian.

Here's my vote for a thread on being unequally yolked. When a sorceror falls for a non-sorceror...
 
  
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