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Tiphareth rising???

 
 
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12:29 / 04.02.04
Hi there, i've been reading through some of the old posts here, only got to page 7 and then i thought : Damn i need advice! And woah, do i need advice.

So here i am, sometimes i dabble with sigils, sometimes word as spell, sometimes lay out the stones in a circle and try and get some answers, most of the time i'm just trying to attune to the element that i feel is lacking, meditating or reading up on stuff. I'm also very into the kabbalah but sometimes it seems like i'm only keeping my left brain happy and not paying attention to the big picture. I've smoked weed before and been free of all of this but then the next day it's just back to plain old reality and i know magic can free me from this trap. I've done a spell to attune to fire before and it really worked. However i get plagued by the thought that i don't need to do this and that there's another way.

But it's not cutting it.

I'm mostly into Zen, Buddhism and Taoism and am trying to get into Kung-fu, Pakua and Xhing-yi from books or the net and need to go to classes, but it never seems enough, i keep feeling that magical calling but aren't sure what to do. I'm mostly drawn to chaos magic because of the spontenious (i know, wrong spelling) nature of it or natural magic, as i don't see the appeal in all the athames, incense, robes etc. I feel that they aren't needed but they are just guides for the mind anyway aren't they?

Woah, i have this brilliant knack of posting incoherant jibberish at the times when i most need help. All i'm asking really, is : How do you go from dabbler to magician? Also i get this feeling, it's conditioning i'm sure of it, that i'm not supposed to get into magic, but it's only half the time, the other half it's like my true self is there and it ,knows that i have to travel this path.

Any help at all would be welcomed here.
 
 
illmatic
13:10 / 04.02.04
How do you go from dabbler to magician?

Godd question really. I suspect we all feel like that in some way. There's always someone that knows more than you about something. I think maybe that comes when you've done some experimenting, or you've learnt somehow to twist the words and description in a something that works for you. I think having things NOT work out the way you planned is part of this process. |We all bring a lot of future planning and preconeptions into these things, and they normally say more about us now thna where we will be 5 years in the future.

I like a bit of Xhing-yi myself but if you're drawn to Taosim why not put your questions to the I Ching?
 
 
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13:56 / 04.02.04
Thanks for the advice lllmatic, teh I Ching does sound good i suppose, i forgot to mention that i've used the Tarot for a few years aswell but kind of stopped after i got a reading from someone and got told that it's no use doing a reading for yourself. Don't know why i listened, anything goes in chaos right?

Maybe i feel that i'd only see what i wanted to see in the I Ching and it would be a waste of time.

One more thing : Cthulhu.

I did some reading about chaos magic and was wondering, why are some chaos magicians trying to open the gate that was sealed? I threw a sigil into his city the other night, a lot of rumbling followed..........then nothing.

Is the re-opening of the gate a plan to to restore the balance between chaos and order because the world is too left brain? I'm sooooo confused. Grant Morrison if you ever read this REPLY PLEASE!!!

Mr Morrison has re-awakened my love for magic due to me reading The Invisibles. I just might owe him my life.
 
 
_Boboss
14:34 / 04.02.04
you might be surprised at the good a few deep breaths can do.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
14:55 / 04.02.04
I agree with you, Wolverine-San. Eon, just relax, man! Take it easy, go feed the pigeons or something. Magic's a bit like eating - if you shovel too much on your plate at once and gobble it all up, you'll end up with a tummy-ache. If you're not sure what to do, then doing nothing for a while might well be a good move.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
15:17 / 04.02.04
There's a lovely reflection here in Joel Birocco's blog about the joys of doing not much.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
15:24 / 04.02.04
I've smoked weed before and been free of all of this but then the next day it's just back to plain old reality and i know magic can free me from this trap.

It might be more productive to try and discard the whole ‘everyday reality’ / ‘magical reality’ dichotomy that seems to come across in your post. The two frequencies are not mutually exclusive, so maybe try and cultivate a world where the magic regularly seeps through into everyday existence rather than framing the two experiences in opposition to one another. If that makes any sense? You sound as if you’re engaged in a mighty struggle to free yourself from an unsatisfactory everyday experience by getting into magic, which I think is a common script, but not necessarily the most effective one.

However i get plagued by the thought that i don't need to do this and that there's another way.

Well, you’ll never know if actively practicing magic is the right way forward unless you try it out. All you can really do at this stage is gather research into these areas and then make your decision based on whatever experiences that brings you.

and am trying to get into Kung-fu, Pakua and Xhing-yi from books or the net and need to go to classes

I’d suggest that you can’t really learn martial arts without one on one instruction. Especially full contact martial arts such as kung fu – if there’s no sparring, you’re not really learning it properly. Also, unless you were brought up in a tradition from birth or have a freaky natural affinity, you’re likely to be making loads of mistakes in posture without realising it. I’d either go to classes or spend your time doing something else.

as i don't see the appeal in all the athames, incense, robes etc. I feel that they aren't needed but they are just guides for the mind anyway aren't they?

Presumably, but tools and props can be really effective in accomplishing specific ends. They are guides for your mind in a similar sense to how a manual tool such as screwdriver is a guide for your mind. You could conceivably unscrew stuff with your fingers, but there’s a handy shortcut for getting the same results. You could argue that something like an athame effects conceptual space in a similar way to how a hammer and chisel effect physical space.

All i'm asking really, is : How do you go from dabbler to magician?

Keep at it until you start to get a sense of some weird thread you feel compelled to follow. Pick up the end of the thread and follow it for the rest of your life, wherever it might lead. Or else don’t, put the telly on, have a cup of tea and enjoy what you’ve got. No harm in either of those choices, so long as your decision instinctively feels right to you.

after i got a reading from someone and got told that it's no use doing a reading for yourself. Don't know why i listened, anything goes in chaos right?

I’m uncomfortable with the statement that ‘anything goes in chaos’ as I think it’s a flawed proposition that can lead to lazy thinking and a lot of really dull self-congratulatory pissing about. But I suppose I don’t really identify as a chaos magician anymore, whatever that means.

Having said that, I’ve always found tarot readings I’ve done for myself to be pretty accurate and haven’t encountered any problems. Although it’s often more productive to get someone else to read for you if you’re particularly close to the subject of the question, as you might not be able to see the wood for the trees.

Is the re-opening of the gate a plan to to restore the balance between chaos and order because the world is too left brain?

I don’t think it’s anything so grand and structured. There’s been a recent thread on Lovecraftian stuff that covered a lot of ground and threw up a few interesting perspectives on this strange non-euclidean corner of the occult world.
 
 
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15:49 / 04.02.04
(taked deep breath)

First of all, sorry people, i'm just getting so hyped because i can almost feel the transition coming. Good idea to chill and get some perspective though, muchios gracias. I just feel like i was always destined to be at this site and i love the place. How many pages are there in this forum to read? Thats one of the reasons i like the place, and also the fact that your still here incase i get lost and can ask you for advice.

Hopefully in a few months i'll be over this stage and will be joining the various debates that are going on in here.

Gypsy Lantern : Thankyou. You've cleared a good deal of this up for me. I'm going to get out the Tarot cards again and give them a try. Also i AM framing the two in opposition to each other, i see that now. Maybe i'm walking backwards and forwards along the tower path, which i know isn't a very wise thing to do. Finally i do think i've got a freaky natural affinity with Kung-fu but i'm almost sure that it's just the ego waffling as usual : "Come on Eon! Your the One! Your a Kung-fu master! You lived in China in your past life!"

Ha, it doesn't say that but you know what i mean. As for giving up Kung-fu : It would be like giving up my life, i've been practising patterns, doing exercises, trying various stances and sets and also trying chi-kung with over the last year and it's really been a big help in many ways. I do realize that i haven't really learnt much and will go to a class sometime soon as i know i need professional guidance. There are many debates about the chances of learning Kung-fu from books and after trying myself for the last year i believe it's true that you can learn it from a book. Unfortunately i don't think it's true for myself and i've just found a couple of local venues that teach Shaolin, Tai-Chi etc so i'll check them out.

Wow i didn't mention Tai-Chi did i? I'm such a clutz when i get hyped.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:00 / 04.02.04
Eon, I'd say read everything in this thread, mull it over, decide what to do, and then trust that your decision is the right one. I started by dabbling in sigils and have since done a little more and read & reflected a great deal about magick and its role in my life, but I have had similar feelings to you along the lines of "What if I'm not doing ENOUGH to change my more QUICKLY??" And I always come back to this notion:

In my magickal growth, I am going at the perfect rate for me. When something is calling out to me and I'm inspired to work in a particular area, I will. The ebb and flow of more obvious magickal work is natural, just like the ebb and flow of other events and parts of one's life is natural. I needn't worry about the rate of my development in this area - my psyche and soul knows the way to go and all I need to do is listen to it.

And I really agree with Gypsy Lantern what said about viewing the world as either 'boring and non-magickal' or 'magickal'. It's always magickal, even when you're not winning the lottery or dating a supermodel with the career or your dreams. It's ALWAYS magickal in more ways than one, but sometimes we don't notice unless massive life-changing stuff is happening.
 
 
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16:30 / 04.02.04
Cool, thanks HunterWolf, i'll take your advice and read through this thread again.

When i see things a little more lucidly i'll post back and tell you how i think and feel about the situation.
 
 
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17:46 / 04.02.04
WOW.

I did a tarot reading and guess which card i saw first? The lovers. The last card a saw was the lovers when i read no:4 of The Invisibles and Helga says : "It say's somebody's going to get fucked." That was wierdly amazing.

I did the cards in the form of the tree of life and the card for Yesod was the first i saw because it fell out of my hands as i was placing it in it's position!

Anyway, i'm going to ask for advice once more and ask if any of you can see anything in the reading that i got :

Kether : 5 of swords.

Chockmah : Page of swords.

Binah : 6 of wands.

The abyss (the last card i put down, the 11th.) : Death. (!)

Chesed : Queen of wands.

Geburah : Knight of cups.

Tiphareth : 7 of pentacles.

Netzach : 3 of swords.

Hod : The chariot.

Yesod : The lovers.

Malkuth : The emperor.


Honestly this is exactly what i got, do any of you see anything here considering the question on my mind was whether or not to proceed with magic? Is Yesod telling me i'm going to get fucked? Is the abyss gonna swarm on me? (LOL joking.)

Any help would be warmly welcomed.
 
 
LVX23
17:58 / 04.02.04
Yeah, I'd definitely echo Gypsy and Hunter's advice about relaxing into your magickal life. Don't force it. You will naturally move in and out of magickal periods. The true magician is comfortable "walking between the worlds" as it were. Consider that when magick is not overtly in your life, it is still functioning on a subconscious level. There are productive phases and absorptive phases - one informs the other. Feed your Soul with experiences and symbols. Integrate them consciously and they will later manifest at the most interesting times.

Breathe. Get outside and into nature as much as possible. Open up to the communication of the world. To paraphrase Crowley, interpret every event as a dealing of the Infinite with your Soul, a communication from the Absolute. Put yourself into novel situations, break out of routines. Drift a bit. Look in to shamanism.

But again, don't force it. Let it move at its own pace and you will get to where you Will.

Re: Kung Fu... You will not learn martial arts from a book. It is essential that you work with other people. A good teacher will impart much more than a book. Ultimately you're learning to defend yourself against others - you can't practice this by yourself. The softer forms like Tai Chi or Chi Kung can be done solo, but hard forms like Kung Fu require partners. Find a class and stick to it. This will also ground your magick.
 
 
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18:51 / 04.02.04
Thanks LVX23 (is that something from Crowley? Liber something?)

Your advice sounds good aswell, and i realize i'm kidding myself with the Kung-fu from book thing, i need to go to classes. Do you do chi-kung? It works well for me and am glad i found it. Two really good bits of advice you gave me: The Crowley advice and the Shamanism advice, i've been meaning to check Shamanism for ages and have always ended up doing something else, maybe i'm ready to embark upon that path of knowledge at last.

As for Crowley, the best thing i read from him was a quote from him that suggested that the most important thing to do is to find the connections between things. Sounds like good advice to me.

Last of all, can somebody please have a go at reading what i got from the tarot a couple of posts above this one? I really need advice on a tarot reading and believe i'm in a good place for an interpretation of the cards i dealt myself earlier on. If anyone can tell me what they see in this i'll consider it as : The universe used me as the vessel to shuffle and layout the cards, anyone who interprets them here is the person telling me what they mean.

I'm not very good at reading tarot and i really cleared my mind and focused my intent before dealing out the cards.
 
 
the Fool
19:31 / 04.02.04
I'll just second everyones suggestion that you learn from kungfu from a teacher and not a book. I've been learning Baugua and Xing Yi for about 4 years now (am back to class once I'm fully over this virus) and what you learn from a good teacher cannot really be put in a book. A book cannot correct posture, which is an essential element of both styles you mention. Especially XingYi which has quite a difficult and complex posture (sort of compressing yourself along the centre line but with your chest at 45 degrees, always with the tailbone tucked under). Then of course, there is the walking, which I can't really describe at all, but its absolutely vital to both styles and understanding each styles 'attitude'.

There is a definite 'magical' underlay to styles like Baugua (being based on the I Ching) so if you are serious about it. Find a good teacher and be routine about it. You won't get anywhere being stop and start with it. Go every week, don't miss classes. ... I feel like my teacher now, hehehe
 
 
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20:18 / 04.02.04
Thanks the fool, it's becoming obvious to me now that i have to go to classes and i will do as soon as i find the right place. Pakua really interests me too and hopefully i'll be able to find somewhere that teaches that too.

Sorry i'll only ask this once more but anyone read the tarot cards that i posted further up? Ha i know i'm getting annoying but i've never had a reading before except for three cards by a reader and would love to know what any of you think. It's ok though this will be my last time of asking.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
22:47 / 04.02.04
i've been meaning to check Shamanism for ages and have always ended up doing something else, maybe i'm ready to embark upon that path of knowledge at last.

I've grown to think that all magic is essentially shamanism, and everything else is just an overlay. For instance, I think that if you work with the Quabbala - mainstay of western ceremonial magic that it is - to the point where it becomes entirely instinctive and takes on a life of its own, then you are working with something that could readily be considered shamanic. I don't think that there's that much difference, in magical terms, between the hebrew alphabet and something generally considered more 'shamanic' such as the runes, aside from the fact that the former comes from a culture that wrote more stuff down. Of course my definition of 'shamanism' is pretty broad.

Sorry i'll only ask this once more but anyone read the tarot cards that i posted further up?

I'm sure somebody will be along in a minute to give you their interpretation of your cards, I havent got too much free time to look at them at the moment, but one thing I would suggest is to just throw out any preconceptions you may have and just look at the cards for awhile. Try and close off any surface thoughts and just look at the spread you've laid out and see what occurs to you - I think this is really a key aspect of magic, stare at the spread and see what arises for you, what connections does your own mind make between the images on the cards? what can you take from that? Any material that comes through in this way is likely to be more valuable than any book interpretation or somebody elses insights. Consider the cards as a mechanism for connecting up to the source of everything. What information can you draw from that experience?
 
 
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06:02 / 05.02.04
Thanks again Gypsy Lantern, i'm pretty confused right now because as i was reading that part about shamanism in your post i realized that these are the very same views that i once had myself, which then led me (again) to what i think is the source of my problems : Inertia and forgetfullness. I was looking at a collection of symbols early this morning when i came across a symbol of Dancing Shiva, and i read the text below it and saw :

The small figure under Shiva's feet is the body of the dwarf Purusha (forgetfulness), who is symbolic of man's inertia, the ignorance which must be overcome.

This is my problem i think. I've become unsure of where to go and my doubt has led me to the situation where i've forgotten a lot of what i knew before. Thanks for the tarot advice aswell i'm gonna take another look, probably lay out more cards and see what there is now that i've had a realization of what i've been doing wrong and hopefully i'll be back to myself again soon.

I'm 24 and have been into the occult on and off for six years now, but i've always been unsure of what path to take, but after the headaches i've had lately wondering where the hell i'm going i'm pretty sure that the picture will be a lot clearer once i've had a good recap of what i've actually learnt in the past and what i need to be doing now.

Thanks again!
 
 
Z. deScathach
07:00 / 05.02.04
One thing to remember about magick, is that it's good to give yourself some quiet simplicity to provide a counter-point to your studies. As others have said here, "Learn to RELAX!" Things will occur in their own time. After awhile you get to realize that magick is a life-long journey, and it dawns on you that on the day you die, you will still be growing in it. So there is no point in rushing anything. As far as the Kung Fu argument, can you learn it from a book? No. The one thing you should NOT attempt to learn from a book is chi kung, it can be dangerous, as moving your bodies energies without training can rupture or damge meridians, (if you don't know what meridians are, you should not be doing chi kung). There was a very well respected Taoist school that believed the pursuit of "naturalness" was a valid path to energy regulation. If you are self working, this is a safer way to go. Can you learn to become an extremely dangerous fighter who knows their own body and it's energies without going to a class? Yes. If you go that route don't say to anyone, "I know Kung Fu", because you don't. You can't learn a style from a book. In order to alay the arguments that inevitably arise over the statement that I've made, I say just one thing. Many people here, including myself, believe in the chaos magick paradigm. The same thing was said about chaos magick, that it's magick would invariably be weak because it's practitioners self-trained.
 
 
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05:23 / 06.02.04
Thanks Z.deScathach i'm much better now. Have you ever gone through that 'brain drain' phase where you forget most of what you've learnt for a short while and freak out? I haven't been paying attention to the element of air for a while and loads of stuff fell back into my unconscious, so i've been trying to get it back, it kind of sucks but i guess it's just another of life's lessons.

Taoist pursuit of naturalness? Yes, it's one of the best things that works for me, just check my zen book a min (has taoism in it too)................'wu-wei.' I really connect with it and it's been one of the things thats worked best for me. Wu-wei is non-action, non-striving etc, i once got the fitness freak bug and was jogging a few times a week and having problems with breathing, so i applied wu-wei and just let the body breath itself, it worked like a miracle and i've always had respect for it ever since.

I just started meditating again recently and hadn't really felt better until yesterday when i thought "I'll try the double-lotus position and see what happens." I meditated for ten-fifteen mins and it was better than all of my other meditations combined over the last few weeks, i felt brilliant. Maybe it's just that slight change here and there that does the trick. I hope to work on my intuition in the future so that i can find those slight changes that i need to make, and do it faster and with more accuracy, but for now it's back to rooting through my mind and bringing back whatever my little friend Purusha has pinched from me.

Thanks for the Chi-kung and Kung-fu advice too, i don't know if i entirely agree with the meridian aspect as there are very simple chi-kung exercises that can be done so i don't know, but to be on the safe side i'll rest from that until i get to a dojo. As for kung-fu i'm going to practise patterns still but lay off combining so many things as i'm sure i'll pick up back habits.

Can't be learnt from a book, but i have seen some experts on video off the net so i can definately get closer to sorting those stances/walking techniques out, maybe i'll try it for the next couple of weeks before i get to a dojo and i'll have a little less to correct in what i've learnt wrongly so-far.
 
  
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