Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Books, Criticism & Writing >

Barbelith Book Club: The Divine Comedy

11:01 / 03.02.04

"'O Muse, o alto ingegno, or m'aiutate;/ o mente che scrivesti ciò ch'io vidi,/ qui si parrà la tua nobilitate"

I wanted to start a thread to invite people to discuss-while-we-read Dante's Commedy.
Since the Iliad was a blockbuster success when it was done. And since This is the sort of reading teat would benefit tremendously of the interchange of ideas.

I think we could schedule a deadline for everybody to get their copy of the book, and then we can start reading and discussing. What do you guys think? It’s as yummy, profound and poetic as the Iliad, and there are enough themes and scenes to keep us busy for quite a while…

What about March, 1st. as a starting date?

Some info that I hope will help you make up your mind if you're not familiarized with the book:

It's a tale of how man can ascend to higher mindspaces, spiritual spaces, and how in most cases this ascension must be done through the darkest of paths.

It's a nasty, biased political report on Florentine politics of the XIII century.

It's a treatise on pretty much all knowledge that European culture had amassed trhough the centuries, from the Greek philosophy, science and mythology to the Arabic philosophers. Dante doesn't leave anybody out.

It's a Catholic reformative tale with a solid moral backbone, through which Dante shows the mortal, easily tempted mortal man the ways of sin and the rewards of faith.

It's damn imaginative and built with craft. The images will have you shaking (Virgil's *so* a bad-ass! Cerberus is no match for him!). The dialogues will have you weeping.

I would also advise that, since this is a poem originally written in Italian, you would get 2 or three different versions (and if you can get ahold of the original, it will also be good)- it will help you understanding what's going on, and also will provide more analytical tools to better appreciate the book. Comparing how different people approached and translated the stanzas is very fun.

PM with questions or suggestions - I'm really looking forward to have this going on. And please, anyone willing to elaborate this thread further, do so.

11:20 / 03.02.04

I'd be up for this - though I'm not so keen on the idea of each person having two or three versions, as that could prove rather difficult in terms of logistics/cost...

Do you want to do the whole lot, or just the Inferno?

11:57 / 03.02.04

Re: Nr of versions: that's only a suggestion, really. And... ummm... I guess undertaking the three books can be quite time/effort consuming - plus every source I've been reading regards Hell as being the most exciting and rich of the three books.... Well I guess:

We can start with Hell and when it's done the whole gang can decide whther or not they'll be up for continuing the ascension towards Heaven

Good to see your support on this. Charon awaits!

12:08 / 03.02.04

I too would be up for this. I have always wanted to read this, alongside the other eight milion canonical texts that I never got round to... I still have the booklet that accompanid the Peter Greenway TV adaption, with John Gieulguld, IIRC. Not that that adds anything to the discussion, I ws just showing off. And to be honest it's a pretty crap thing to show off about, isn't it? .... Anyway, yaaaassss, I'm up for it.

Hope your not suggesting we have to read the Italian, are you Jade? (*Classicists curse under their breath at the fecklessly lazy*)
I think we should agree on one standard edition, and those with the time/money/inclination can supplement their study with something else. Standard edition should be cheapish, widely available, recognised as one of a decent translation - all the obvious stuff.

12:12 / 03.02.04

Sounds great -I read this over the summer, but it'd be good to read it again (and discuss it properly too)!

Most of the interesting political stuff is in the Inferno, but Purgatory is certainly worth a read as well ; there's a lot more about the society, rather than just the politics, of Florence at the time. So that far in the ascension is certainly worth it -and I'd like to get other people's ideas on the Heaven section too (as I don't think I understood that much of it the first time round)

12:38 / 03.02.04

I'd certainly participate in this. I'll leave the hashing out of details to others, however.

13:10 / 03.02.04

You will never guess who the Penguin Classics version is by...

If we can get over her BarbHeroine status, do we want to go for one of the other translations? John Ciardi's translation seems to be getting pretty good reviews.

14:39 / 03.02.04

I think the DLS translation is quite well thought of, isn't it? But I suppose it might seem a little antiquated...

13:08 / 04.02.04

So March 1st. it is, then?

And, Kit-kat, generally how this kind of thing starts? One just go and posts his thoughts on the beginning stanzas and the others just join and follow from there? Also: We should keep this thread for the technicalities, and open another for the proper discussion, right? I'll do so once we're close to the deadline.

Get your books, kids! Hell awaits!

14:24 / 04.02.04

Yes, that sounds fine to me - you kick it off when you're ready and the rest of us will follow.

There's an excellent post by Xoc on Dante in this thread, by the way...

23:01 / 05.02.04

I'd like to read along -- has a particular edition been settled on? It might actually be nice to not all read the same version, as variations in translation can spark interesting discussions.

09:47 / 06.02.04

fred, I think that's the way to go. Different versions help making it all much more easier, and also add more colors to the debate - the differences in the translations being already more fodder for discussion.

Just a quick remembering note, fellas - on March 1st we start rolling, so get your mittens on a copy of Inferno as quick as possible...

Whisky Priestess

14:15 / 06.02.04

The Dorothy L. ("Lord Peter Wimsey") Sayers translation of the Inferno is really pretty good, and is in terza rima for extra fun. Her Purgatory and Paradise I can't comment on, as they reproach me unread from their shelf ...

Whisky Priestess

14:17 / 06.02.04

If a thing's worth saying, it's worth saying three times - serves me right for not reading the whole thread, sorry.

12:25 / 20.02.04

folks, something something happened, so I won't be able to kick off the thread on March 1st.

I'll be back to Barbelith after March 15-or-20, though.

Kit-Kat Club, or anyone feeling like it, could start the thread on March 1st as agrred first, or you can decide if oyu wanna wait until later in March when I return. I won't be able not even to follow the discussion, unfortunately.

ANyway, your call.

20:57 / 20.02.04

Somehow I missed this thread prior to this -- I'm all up for getting a copy out of the library and seeing what I make of it. It's something I supposedly read ages ago for some class but skipped. Mea culpa.

I actually think having people using whatever version/translation is handy makes for a better discussion - you can compare/contrast with other folks online....

22:33 / 20.02.04

de Jade, I hope you will not be in prison or anything nasty during your absence. Incredibly, I have not found a single copy of this at any of the three used bookstores I've checked. Anybody in LA spotted used copies? All my real and forged library cards are maxed out, alas.

22:21 / 23.02.04

Well, fred, you still have some time, so don't worry, I'm sure you'll find a good copy soon. As I said before, am leaving now and will be internetless for like 20-sumthing days. Kit-kat, whisky priestess, or whoever's willing to step up - you decide if you keep the schedule as agreed or if you want to wait.

Bye!

23:46 / 23.02.04

Count me in on this. The only version I've ever read is the Sayers translation. Like Whisky, I've got Purgatory and Paradise unread and gathering dust on the bookshelves, so hopefully people will be up for doing them afterwards. Otherwise I might never get around to it.

14:34 / 01.03.04

Well, o Muses, how's it going?

07:10 / 02.03.04

I haven't done anything on this yet - haven't been able to buy my own copy as I have 0 pounds 0 s. & 0 d. I would suggest that we wait for Jade to come back unless someone else is just dying to start the thread, in which case fire ahead. Sorry it's taken me a while to come back on this one - no net access either...

16:46 / 02.03.04

Sounds reasonable -- I'm kinda reading a few other things now (Old Testament, a book on Gnosticism) so should be fully primed for a descent in mid-March.

14:55 / 03.03.04

cool, people. I just came to see how things are going. will be back full steam on middle march... can't wait to start this one...

07:26 / 19.03.04

Bump to remind interested parties...

00:28 / 23.03.04

I`m back! tomorrow will start the thread, so see you then!

07:12 / 23.03.04

Sayer's translation, of all three books, is a brilliant read. I don't
understand Italian and can't comment on the relative quality of her
translation, but I suspect it's good. One does need the background
provided by the very many, detailed and entertaining footnotes, though
perhaps less so nowadays with the internet at ones fingertips.

I doubt it'll have become dated in the 25 years since I read it.

07:54 / 23.03.04

Hey Jade.. Well, I've started anyway, not much but I've started. (read the first Canto in bed last night and fell asleep). First thoughts - my staggering ignorance when it comes to medieval history and thinking. I feel so unfamilar with the basic lexicon that he's usng, the language and symbols of Christianity, the history of the period etc., most of my intellectual pursuits being situated elsewhere/when. Well, you have to start somewhere...anyone else?

10:45 / 24.03.04

I too have started - I'm up to Canto IV though, so I haven't exactly got very far. I'm finding it a little difficult to get into - I don't mean that I'm not enjoying it, because I am, but that it's a stop-start reading experience. This is because of the notes after every Canto; I suppose I could just skip them, but often I find that reading them does actually enhance my enjoyment of the text.

I've got a print of the William Blake illustration for Canto I, with Dante fleeing from the leopard, the lion and the ravening she-wolf...

The main thing I've noted so far: the importance of compassion and of pity in the work - it seems to be this which enables beings to break the rigid bounds of the heaven/hell hierarchy - Mary's pity enables Beatrice to ask Virgil to help Dante; Lucia and Beatrice both have pity for Dante; Virgil has pity for the souls in Limbo...

00:28 / 25.03.04

Let`s keep this thread for thread-related issues. Post your contributions in the discussion thread instead.

***

11:53 / 31.03.04

soooo...?