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Whitehouse and the power-electronics scene.....

 
 
Locust No longer
18:48 / 31.01.04
I'm listening to Whitehouses newest lp, "Birdseed," right now, and I'm a little perplexed. They're a group that thrives in negativity and horror, and while I've never been into that kind of stuff, I like abrasive noise. Thus I picked up some Whitehouse, thinking - "hey, I've never heard them, but they're supposed to be the models for modern power-electronics music, so why not?" I suppose I wasn't prepared for the true almost nihilistic contempt that coarses in this record. The first few tracks are simply loud, and obnoxious noise tracks with an English bloke spouting out angry, self indulgent, prophecies about some unknown parties that are "fuckin' cunts." Alright, fine; it's funny in way. But then the title track, "Birdseed," comes on, and I'm taken aback. It's a fourteen minute track of recorded voices detailing rape and horror. I can't say I'm shocked, but it did strike me as odd.

Which brings me to wonder-- when I hear things like this, I have to contemplate why these things are said. How can these privileged white males go to great lengths in detailing, and almost glorifying sick, and demented experiences (usually experienced by women and people of color) with absolutely no contextual background for doing so. I'm, certainly, unaware of Whitehouse's ethos (if they have any) or philosophical standpoint, so possibly someone may be able to fill me in. But at the same time, what kind of ethos, or philosophical background can justify albums (and Whitehouse has many) that wallow in other peoples pain with no apparent message other than "human = shit." If there is a message, I have to wonder why the hell they keep repeating the same one, album after album. I understand that music really doesn't need to be justified by anyone, or need a message, but it seems very odd to me. In many ways this can come back to the Death in June or Black Metal threads that have been ruminated on a while back. I sense there is a very strange attachement to the morbid and needlessly grotesque in the "noise" arena which I simply don't understand. The best thing I can come up with is the apparent lack of creative thought with many noise artists. The, "hey, let's make a shitty recording with noise pedals and computers, then put a xeroxed copy of a woman, after she's been raped and mutilated, on the cover. That'll get to the squares." Whatever.

This is, obviously, rambling....
 
 
+#'s, - names
19:23 / 31.01.04
There was some discussion about whitehouse here, mostly focused on Peter Sotos, the guy who created the soundscape of the rape and torture victims. I like to play Halogen at top volume when the restaurant I live above have obnoxious people in the bar after midnight. Sometimes I blast Diamanda Galas's Screaming Women with Steak Knives, just depends on my mood.
 
 
--
19:40 / 31.01.04
Seeing as I'm pretty much the Whitehouse poster boy fan around here, a few thoughts.

"Bird Seed" is Whitehouse's 17th album, their first album being released back in 1980 or so. If you think "Bird Seed" is abrasive, you should check out the early stuff... Mostly just high-end synth tones and piercing double-feedback.

In the past the lyrics to Whitehouse songs were quite short and blunt, (with track titles like "Tit Pulp" and "Prorapist", you can imagine their content. Very juvenille, as you can guess. In recent years the lyrics in their music have gotten much more complicated and abstract at times, less about abusing people and more about why people let themselves be abused. I actually think the lyrics are better now then they were before. "Bird Seed" has really great lyrics, I think. In fact it's one of Whitehouse's best albums, imo. Whitehouse are actually more commercial now then they were back in the day.

As for nihilistic contempt, the band's singer and founder, William Bennett, says hate isn't part of the group at all... rather, pleasure at whatever cost (see De Sade). Interestingly enough the band have recently begun refering to performing their music live as a transcendant event.

The track "Bird Seed" was assembled by the notorious pornographic writer Peter Sotos (see my thread on him in the book forum for more info). Sotos was helped with the live shows in the 80's and on some of the 90's albums. The last 3 Whitehouse albums ("Mummy & daddy", "Cruise", and "Bird Seed") feature a collage from Sotos (the "Mummy & Daddy" one goes on for over 20 minutes). I suppose it's the band's way of pointing out that the media glamorizes these vile things in their own way, though Sotos has said in print that he masturbates whilst listening to them.

As for a philosophy, Bennett has often said that Whitehouse has no ideological philosophy or anything like that, it's just about expressing certain emotions. There is no real standpoint, per se, though recently the group has expressed an interest in the Seirra Leone.

There have been rumors that Whitehouse is racist, but I doubt that. Probably cuz Sotos was a member (they kicked him out of the band recently for unknown reasons, but I have my theories). Bennett says he admires African art, has released an extreme music compliation of African noise artists, and lists "Death Row Greatest Hits" as one of his top ten favorite albums. Sexist maybe... But a lot of the sexist things they said back in the 80's was just probably a way of getting attention. And they were younger then... I dunno. Whitehouse's female fan base has increased over the years and Whitehouse's label recently released "Extreme Music From Women", a very good comp. of female noise artists. Bennett says there's more to Whitehouse then simple misogony.

Personally I love Whitehouse (though their 80's albums seem to be nothing more then trying to outdo Tg in terms of subject matter) and I think they have a great sense of humor (alebit black humor) that most people don't get (same for Sotos' writings). Whitehouse, it should be said, was one of the first bands to deal with such violent themes. Since then there have been about a million third-rate copyists who just shout distorted rape messages over feedback... In other words most of these PE bands are still stuck back in 1984. Whitehouse, on the other hand, has moved on, though some of the early stuff is worth hearing.

Anyway, it's a dirty job but someone's gotta explore these tabboo areas.
 
 
+#'s, - names
16:18 / 02.02.04
Is the "noise" scene simply a bunch of basement dwellers with morbid, uncreative, ideas?

Should have mentioned this before, but noise has finally left the shadow of concentration camp and burn victim imagery. Check out the Black Dice and Oneida for the new cosmic wave of noise artists. All the tones, none of the misentropy.
 
 
+#'s, - names
16:18 / 02.02.04
Is the "noise" scene simply a bunch of basement dwellers with morbid, uncreative, ideas?

Should have mentioned this before, but noise has finally left the shadow of concentration camp and burn victim imagery. Check out the Black Dice and Oneida for the new cosmic wave of noise artists. All the tones, none of the misentropy.
 
 
Locust No longer
17:13 / 02.02.04
Thanks for the input, Sypha. I'm still not sure I understand the reasoning behind much of what bands like Whitehouse do, as in lyrically, however. Where does one draw the line with trying to show aspects of humanity? Where does it become more about exploiting horror than trying to combat it or bring it out in the open?

As for Black Dice, I've been a big fan for a couple years. I guess, I never thought of them as a noise band, however (first a thrash band then a psychedelic band). I do like the noise of Wolf Eyes, and the whole Japanese contigent of MSBR and Guilty Connector are pretty good, as well. I suppose a lot of stuff I listen to would be considered noise, but not really "power electronics" stuff like Whitehouse or Bastard Noise.
 
 
reFLUX
19:29 / 02.02.04
what are we saying is power electronics? who is comprable to Whitehouse?
 
 
+#'s, - names
19:55 / 02.02.04
I do like the noise of Wolf Eyes

Have you heard the record with Black Dice? Totally out there.
 
 
Locust No longer
20:29 / 02.02.04
Well, I suppose "power electronics" is characterized by ear shredding noise. It's a very abrasive, and, obviously, noisey genre that's idiom revolves arround various electronic sound sources. Some bands are the aforementioned Whitehouse, Merzbow (although not all his stuff is PE), Smell and Quim, Emil BEAULIEAU, Bastard Noise, Bizarre Uproar, Guilty Connector, MSBR, and tons more I know very little about.

The Black Dice/Wolf Eyes disc is on my must buy list right now, actually. I downloaded an early collaboration called "chimes in dark water" or something like that but wasn't very impressed. I hear this new one is much better, however.
 
 
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20:32 / 02.02.04
Sutcliffe Jugend is one of the classic power electronics band. Some of the recent ones are groups like Taint, Slogun, and Deathpile. Kinda like Deathpile, but my eyes rolled when I read an interview and the singer said his inspirations were serial killers... That's like a christian rock band saying their inspiration is god or jesus.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
20:56 / 02.02.04
Locust...: are you in Oz? For some reason, I keep thinking you are. Whitehouse are touring as part of the What Is Music? fest and I'm still trying to decide whether to go. I've heard rumours that they're right wing fuckheads (also partially informing my decision not to see Death In June last year) which turns me off... but don't know. Certainly, am intending on seeing Merzbow. (Who now dedicates most of his recordings to animals/anti animal cruelty efforts, doesn't he?)

It's a fourteen minute track of recorded voices detailing rape and horror. I can't say I'm shocked, but it did strike me as odd.
Didn't an early incarnation of Coil (Zos Kia?) record something like this, just called Rape?

It's a very abrasive, and, obviously, noisey genre that's idiom revolves arround various electronic sound sources.
See, I think that there can be really mellow parts of that. Mezzrow struck me as being Merzbow-lounge, in a way, as it was just a big fuzzy, beaty ball of deliciousness. And Nerve Net Noise's Meteor Circuit disc was all-electronic (but not really glitch) and was pretty peaceful in places, and relatively ear-shredding in others. Maybe volume for volume's sake is what identifies noise-musik?

I dunno - at some point, doesn't noise, avant-garde and fucked-up jazz combine? I always find it hard to draw boundaries between 'em.
 
 
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23:40 / 02.02.04
Interestingly enough, Whitehouse has actually become respected in certain art circles... Check this out:

"Prix Ars Electronica 2003 year book - extract

(honorable mention précis)

Bird Seed has been regarded by many critics as Whitehouse's most mature, diverse and complex release to date. Still containing Whitehouse's unadulterated lyrics, and ironic swipes at the misfortunate, this recording finds the band at a far more intellectually sophisticated and psychologically interrogative stage in its career, particularly in terms of how the lyrics attempt to grapple with the culturally stigmatized therapy and self-help culture. Much of this has been attributed to the departure of former band member Peter Sotos and the shrinkage of the group to a duo of William Bennett / Philip Best. Musically, things have equally changed for the group, credited with having pioneered what became known in the 1990s as "power electronics". With Bird Seed, Whitehouse have found not only new lyrical insight and sophistication, but musical innovation that is in keeping with their career achievements thus far.

+++++++++++++++

(regarding the jury's deliberations)

The UK group Whitehouse are still too extreme to find a majority on this jury panel 20 years after their first appearance. They have shifted from the paradigm of being an ambivalent "80s industrial" band towards a contemporary-sounding digital blast. They focus their issues more precisely than ever. Obvious, but not obvious enough, Whitehouse are one of the few collectives to twist political issues explicitly with their extreme and controversial works. Addressing the topics of power, media, violence, abuse and fetish, Whitehouse have caused the heavist debate amongst our committee. The voyeuristic aspect of their work struck some of us as choreographed provocation and others as disgusting theatrics. But the very fact of the panel's polarization over the kind of abhorrence, rejections and fascination their music and message conveys raised the discourse to grant them, with our divided passions, a disputed place in the final honorable mentions. Their unrelenting live spectacles and savage sound-works are an inexorable testament to a brute strength. Let the outrage continue!"

Whitehouse have often said they're not racist, nazis, or right wing. Those rumors seem to stem from an article William Bennett wrote for "Force Mental" magazine back in the 80's that was meant to be a parody of facism but was taken seriously (it was called "The Struggle For a New Musical Culture").

As for their philosophy, here are choice extracts from certain interviews presented in a chronological order:

(1982)

Q: What are your aims musically?

William Bennett: "Musically, the aim is to translate as much mental violence and power into music as possible. If people were honest with themselves, they would know that we deliver the goods they really want."

Q: What are your motivations in focusing on the blacker aspects of existence?

WB: Our motivation? The "darker" side of people is fundamentally the more interesting; it inflames the imagination more and affects one's senses profoundly and vividly." (he goes on to talk about his admiration for Nietzche and how "the man who chooses the path of evil has proved that he is the most civilized". In this same interview Bennett expressed a positive reaction to Charles Manson, Gilles de Reis, Adolf Hitler, Marquis De Sade, Leni Riefenstahl, Aleister Crowley, and the National Front).

(1983)

(1984)

Q: Is there any particular message you want to get across, like social commentary or...?

WB: No, not at all. I mean our whole philosophy is not work, it's just really pleasure for ourselves, and anybody else who likes it, well it's just a bonus to them... No, I don't really care, I mean I don't believe in God or anything like that, so, if anybody else doesn't care for what we do it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

* * * *

(in regards to Nazism and Fascism

WB: We're not facists... some of the material uses it's imagery because I find it attractive. For myself, I'm primarily interested in violence, sadism, and a libertine philosophy where pleasure should be obtained at any price.

* * * *

WB: The Whitehouse music isn't trying to communicate anything as far as to people... what people get out of it is up to them. I play that sort of music because I enjoy that kind of music, it gives me great pleasure to perform live or do it in the studio or even to listen to the records. People may get a similiar thing out of it, but there's no message. The only philosophy I follow regards to this is pleasure, there's no compromise, and if people don't like it fine.

(1985)

Q: Do you despise humanity? And if so, why do you promote this hatred through records and shows? Isn't the ultimate message murder and self-destruction?

WB: I'm not sure that anybody could imagine that we hate humanity, and I could say that with all seriousness. We've not campaigned for any political charge on grounds of coservatism or otherwise. However unusual the manifestos appear, we love life and all that nature goes with it. Pleasure is the operative word.

(1991)

Q: Whitehouse often comes up against rejection. How do you cope with that?

WB: I've never made records to provoke people. The records are for Whitehouse fans and not for people who don't like them.

Q: Are they meant for people who take your lyrics seriously?

WB: I don't want to give orders through my music. If people like them, that's ok, but they're a very select audience.

Q: If you sing about sex, violence and perversion, is the music specifically aimed at people who enjoy this and practice it themselves? Do you make music for the perverted?

WB: No, not at all. The music isn't governed by whether the listener is violent or not. The most violent audience I've ever encountered were country fans in America, that really scared me.... It's certainly much more dangerous to go to a normal disco then to go to a punk concert. Our songs don't explicitly ask the listener to do anything. But if someone likes violent sex then it's obvious our music will be a turn-on for them... The sort of violence I'm talking about is personal, intimate violence that satisfies lust.

Q: Don't you think that, because of album titles like "Buchenwald" there's a danger of Whitehouse being seen as a fascist group?

WB: Oh, there are enough other groups who present such a strong image. I've never expressed any political opinion. So I don't think Adolf Hitler would have been a Whitehouse fan, I can't imagine him playing a song like "My Cock's On Fire" at home. I'm convinced that in a fascist state Whitehouse would be the first to be put up against the wall and shot, so it's really impossible to understand us as that.


(1992)

Q: Is hatred a primary motivation behind what Whitehouse do?

WB: hatred of what? Only hatred of the conventional.

* * * *

Q: How would you describe Whitehouse and their sound? What sort of feelings and emotions are you trying to convey/obtain with the music and lyrics?

WB: Extreme power electronics, passion, power, excitement, melancholy, joy, uncontrollable madness during lust.

Q: Whitehouse often seem to be viewed as offensive. Is this a deliberate intention?

WB: If we're offensive, it's because people are offended. If people are offended they're not going to like our music.

* * * *

(2000)

(in regard to contemporary noise music

'Noise' music? Very low, I'm afraid. The old longhaired prog rock fans who make the so-called Japanese noise are dead. I think they were always living on borrowed time. That genre totally depended on the then Western interest in exotic Japanese counterculture that was fashionable in the late 80s when it all started. Things like Japanese pornography especially bondage, oriental schoolgirls, the new wave of video games, manga and anime etc, the alternative aesthetic that Japan offers. A Masonna or Violent Onsen Geisha or whatnot CD with their, you know, 'obis' … Obis? Yeah, you know the cute little outer covers on the spine with the names in Japanese. I think that's what they're called. Well, and the at times exquisite, even sexy, presentation must look fantastic on any coffee table when heavy metal fans or the like come round to tea. I guess nobody can fail to be impressed with your 100 CD 'Merzbox' with the free 'Merzposter', 'Merzbook', 'Merzmobile' or whatever etc. (luckily it doesn't really matter that your 'Merzrom' or other discs won't play properly) - but then you must think 'what about the music?'. I'm asked about the difference between Whitehouse and all these 'noise' bands. Aside from my own subjective and personal judgments, the one fundamental difference is that people actually listen to Whitehouse. I defy many of these Japnoise fans to look me in the eye and really tell me they regularly listen to that music. Most of them are rock and rollers. Where's the content? The use of extreme sounds and noise can be very powerful utilised as a tool but not as a means in itself other than as I said as a sort of 'coffee table' statement.

* * * *

WB: I mean, and this is coming from an absolute hardcore fundamental atheist, but there are moments within the music where you reach an element of spirituality. It's reaching some sort of higher level, it just makes you want to clench your fists and grit your teeth, it creates an incredible excitement. Without sounding too corny, it really comes from the heart. A lot goes into it. These lyrics take a lot out of me, a lot of people probably think that this music is just someone flicking a button-it's not like that at all. Those songs actually evolve over a couple of years. It's a painstaking process.

(2001)

V: The music of Whitehouse could possibly be misconstrued as languishing in misanthropy and violence, you do indeed investigate the extremes of experience, would you say there was an aspect of humanity or human civilization that angers or disturbs you?

WB: I tend to take humanity as it comes, there seems to me little point in getting upset about human agendas and moralities. People waste entire lifetimes on such issues and, if they get old, cannot then come to terms with their own overwhelming sense of nihilism. I don't see humanity as being anything other than animals like all the rest. Perhaps one interesting characteristic humans have is that of a deep awareness of our own mortality which ultimately affects our behaviour both as individuals and as communities.

(2002)

Q: Some new topics of interest were evident with Cruise - is there anything new this time around?

A: Well, without going into too much detail, and in my permanent obsessive quest for moments of inspiration I've been devouring various aspects of art, hypnotherapy, self-help, women's magazines, the mythology of Christianity - I'm becoming quite an authority in this field now! - plus the usual twisted diet of foreign-language books and films and all the other usual fixations.

(2003)

'Bird Seed' is undoubtedly a very difficult album - I don't see people being able to: fall in love with it immediately. It demands the listeners: put a lot of work into understanding it - yet the rewards are potentially huge, if not life-changing for the unwary. This is the real work, this contains emotional content that I never dreamed could be expressed in this way. While recording it, it became obvious that we'd fully have to: expect those simply looking for immediate visceral thrills to be disappointed. It's quite interesting to see so many of the early doubters of 'Cruise' now beginning to appreciate that album...

the wider personal reactions we elicit are undoubtedly an integral aspect of the art itself. It's designed to create intense reactions, and is thus extremely revealing - in this way, we look into a mirror reflecting our own, occasionally troubled, souls.

* * * *

(from the band's FAQ page

xiii. Are Whitehouse misogynist?
The lyrics of certain songs (in addition to some of the writings of Peter Sotos) have led certain people to the view that the group is misogynist. Judging by the high percentages of females at recent Whitehouse live actions it might seem odd to reach this assumption. William Bennett: "I don't think I'm a misogynist, although I can understand why people might question that. Certainly, the accusations are going to be much more intense after the release of the new album (Cruise). There are a set of much more complex emotional functions involved with these songs and I've never felt that simple hatred was one of them."

A very interesting recent Whitehouse interview can be found here:

http://forcefedrapture.com/william%20bennett%20interview.htm
 
 
--
23:42 / 02.02.04
Whoops... Please ignore those smilies... especially the one near the National Front...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
07:46 / 03.02.04
"If people were honest with themselves, they would know that we deliver the goods they really want."

(In this same interview Bennett expressed a positive reaction to Charles Manson, Gilles de Reis, Adolf Hitler, Marquis De Sade, Leni Riefenstahl, Aleister Crowley, and the National Front).


What a fucking wanker.
 
 
illmatic
08:32 / 03.02.04
I have to agree with Flyboy. Maybe he's just being provocative to upset liberals like me, who knows?

I do hate the idea expressed in that quote, that this is what we really want "underneath" it all, and everone else is living some sort of false consciousness. Are serial killers then closer to the truth, happier than everyone else? Nope, if we actually study their lives they're actually enormously damaged individuals. Ho hum.
 
 
rizla mission
11:00 / 03.02.04
But isn't the bit quoted above pretty much par for the course for '80s interviews with self-consciously 'extreme' industrial type bands? Isn't it utterly predictable that a band who make music so massivly negative and offensive should reference of those sorts of people?
It's what's expected of them.. it's like taking offense cos a heavy metal band say they worship satan - it's just silly shock value stuff y'know.

Personally I find that all the defences and explanations put forward by Bennett in the above quotes ring pretty hollow..

Right, so, your music's all about 'pleasure' and nothing to do with hatred? Well maybe I'm just not sufficiently down with his whole S&M thing, but how exactly does that square with spending 15 minutes yelling about 'fucking cunts' over some atonal inhuman noise?

And you're 'not a misogynist'.. well, ok, but since you've spent the past 20 years or so gleefully yelling about rape, torture and cunts, maybe you could present us with a slightly better defence of your position than 'some women like us..'?

I don't object to Whitehouse doing what they do, I mean, whatever, it's all honest self-expression and I don't think these kinds of subject matter should forbidden areas or anything.. it's just that those interview quotes come across as really hypocritical given the actual content of the music - the least they could do would be to admit that their music *is* about morbid fascination, violence, shock value and hatred of women to some extent, even if that doesn't necessarily reflect their personal lives and beliefs.
 
 
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14:41 / 03.02.04
I will agree that most of what Whitehouse said (and released) in the 80's was typical of that time period. I think, at the time, Whitehouse had some odd obsession with going even further then TG had gone, both in terms of noise and in content (still prefer TG though). Most of the things that Whitehouse were interested in TG had already explored back in the late 70's: Fascist imagery, serial killers, Manson, hell, even Crowley and De Sade. Granted, it's kind of a limiting perspective... TG explored both positive and negative archetypes, whereas Whitehouse seemed to pretty much just focus on the "dark side" of humanity. I agree that the dark side can at times be more interesting, but not always, which is probably Bennett's flaw, among other things. I mean, this was a band whose slogan was "The most repulsive albums ever made".

Actually, looking back at the old Whitehouse interviews it seems that there are contradictions everywhere. For example, the band always goes on about getting pleasure no matter what the cost, but in one interview Bennett said that he was obsessed with survival (and I always find it funny how these self-professed libertines have never spent a day in jail or commited any crimes at all). I also don't understand how Bennett claims that he loves humanity but at the same time in other interviews stated that he'd love to witness nuclear war and the end of the human species (reminds me of P-Orridge's nuclear war t-shirts he was wearing in the early 80's). There seemed to be a huge death obsession in British alternative music at that time (see Coil, Current 93, and others). Something must have been in the water I guess... I dunno. Bennett said by being as extreme and uncommercial as possible Whitehouse actually got exposure then most indie bands, so maybe it was just a big marketing scheme.

In any event, Whitehouse seems to have moved past that point in some ways. The eight albums they've released since their "second coming" (back in 1990), I think only 3 songs have contained lyrics about serial killers, and in fact the last 5 albums they've done serial killers haven't been mentioned at all (same for interviews). Since their comeback most of their songs have been more sex orientated, specifically S & M. The themes of their last two albums have been very odd... I know the songs on "Bird Seed" deal with Tracey Emin, that gay British actor who had someone die in his pool, Sierra Leone, and victim culture. Obviously the band's moved away from their past... Oddly enough Whitehouse has never had a homophobic song (in fact, some of their last few live shows have been so over-the-top camp that some old school fans have given up on the band entirely).

Regarding the glorification of serial killers, Bennett said (back in 84 or so) that there were only a handful of serial killers he admired, including Ian Brady and Peter Kurten, more for their philosophy of life then what they actually did (not that this is a good argument, mind). Sotos' "Pure" magazine was probably the definitive serial killer fanboy magazine, but even Sotos admitted that he thought most serial killers (not to mention rapists and child molesters in general) were messed up people controlled by desires they couldn't understand.
 
 
reFLUX
20:20 / 03.02.04
in the end these songs are art and should they be justified in context with the artists life? a biography doesn't explain a piece of art. something expressed in art is sometimes not 'real' in the world. art is seperated from life. we learn nothing of the art from the artist. we must look at the art. interpretation is more important than justification.
 
 
Locust No longer
00:50 / 04.02.04
I agree that art should be looked at as seperate from the the artist, but how often are we able to do that? I know I can with some things, but more and more I often find myself not wanting to know anything about who I am listening to. It makes things so much easier for me to enjoy them-- as ridiculous as that may sound.

Oh, I'm from the USA, by the way- Wisconsin.
 
 
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01:46 / 04.02.04
See, I'm the opposite, I usually try to find as much out about the artist as possible. I usually don't let the artists personal beliefs sway me too much (there are exceptions), otherwise my CD collection would be quite small.
 
  
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