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"Rock-ism": Songwriting, Performance, and Recording

 
 
Jack Fear
12:26 / 27.01.04
Some very interesting points are raised in this post about the Scissor Sisters, from Flyboy's blog.

What I find interesting is the idea that the primacy of the song over the individual performance is "rockist" -- used as a negative, prejudicial terms -- when of course it's a carryover from a tradition far older than rock'n'roll, far older even than recorded audio: a song's success was once measured not in how many records, but in how many copies the sheet music were sold. Even in the early days of what we call "pop," it was standard for any given song to appear in multiple versions, by multiple performers.

The idea that a musical composition is somehow inseparable from a particular recording comes not from the world of pop, but from Varese and the musique concrete gang -- "concrete" meaning that the music itself was intrinsic to a particular physical object, i.e., the master tape of the recording. And that's an idea that's only two generations old -- a blip in the history of popular music (i.e., music of the people), though still pre-dating Rock.

There are other dichotomies at play here. There's a sort of cultural economic argument: Music as cultural product to be assimilated (i.e., music as meme) vs. Music as commodity to be consumed as-is. Depending on how you feel about consumerism, this argument may even have a moral edge...

Another argument -- I guess you could call it a constructionist argument? -- looks at the merits of the thing on its own terms: that is, it judges the song "Comfortably Numb" as a set of chord changes and lyrics, and judges them as pleasing or displeasing regardless of the context in which those changes and lyrics occur -- that is, they could occur within the context of an electric rock song, a disco song, or an acoustic ballad, and each version would still be fundamentally the same song, and can be enjoyed on its own merits, without reference to or familiarity with any other version.

Opposing that there's the deconstructionist view, which holds that any version of "Comfortably Numb" must be considered in the context of some other version or versions, usually (but not always) the original or canonical version -- so that any version of "Comfortably Numb" functions not only as a song in itself, but also as an implicit comment on Pink Floyd.

Interesting that the strict constructionist version is interpreted as "rockist" ("Ah, we had proper tunes in my day, son"), while it's actually the deconstructionist model that appeals to the sense of history and canon for (at least part of) its impact.

In other words, reappropriation, ironic or otherwise, is perhaps more inherently conservative than simply digging a good tune...

A number of dichotomies, and all dichotomies are, to a degree, false. But can we thrash these ideas about a bit anyway?
 
 
40%
18:14 / 31.01.04
It seems clear to me, unless anyone can argue otherwise, that the term 'rockist' is as good as meaningless, but I get the impression that it refers to, as you said, a conservative attitude to how music should be experienced. An orthodoxy, perhaps. Both the constructionist and deconstructionist have a prescriptive element, but the deconstructionist attitude, particularly in the way you have described it, i.e. "any version of "Comfortably Numb" must be considered..." sounds more so, which would lead to your assertion that the deconstructionist view is more conservative.

But the point is that the term 'rockist' seems to be applicable, in some people's eyes, to any attitude towards music which is prescriptive or conversative. So its application is quite arbitrary. But the implication is that people who are into rock music are more likely to have these kinds of attitudes than people who favour other styles. So it is arguably an attitude of prejudice against rock music listeners which makes them synonymous with narrow-minded and elitist attitudes.

And besides, your arguments seem to make it quite clear that the term 'rockist' has no useful application to this discussion.

But the issue itself is whether the song itself or the 'definitive' performance of it should be a reference point. I have a friend who was into hip-hop and rock for a lot of the time we were growing up, and he introduced me to some important groups. But his view now is that these forms of popular music are essentially egotistical, based on individual's experiences rather than on a sense of a shared culture. And he finds folk music more satisfying for this reason.

I have mixed feelings about this. For me, I have generally approached music on an emotional level, in terms of whether the person who wrote the music feels the same way as I do. So it's essentially about identification with that artist. So for me, I'm less keen on covers, unless they clearly have some particular relevance, because I see the song as being inherently connected to the person who wrote it, rather than any given performance of it.

I don't tend to view music in terms of its cultural context so much, and that is probably a weakness of mine. But it seems to me to be in the nature of a lot of our popular music that its view of the world is very localised. There is a sense of alienation and fragmentation in our culture generally, and I think the kind of music we listen to reflects that.

I would see the issue you raised as being a part of that larger discussion, of music as a reflection of shared culture vs music as an expression of individual experience. If a piece of music is to be viewed as a part of our culture in general, then there’s no reason why it shouldn’t be taken and used by different people in different contexts. However, if it’s viewed as being mainly an expression of the person who wrote it, then it makes less sense for people to re-appropriate it.

My personal view would be that a cover should be, if not a direct comment on the original piece of music, at least done with an awareness of the meaning of the original piece, whether as a piece of individual expression, or as a cultural artefact, or both. To cover a song which you don’t really understand fully in these ways strikes me as quite arrogant. Alien Ant Farm’s cover of “Smooth Criminal” is an example of such arrogance to me. They’ve taken the underlying chords and ‘re-appropriated’ them, but there’s no way that they could do justice to the original, because there is such a gulf between them and the original writer, probably in terms of individual experience, but definitely in terms of cultural context.

So, to attempt to summarise my position, I would say that whether re-appropriation is appropriate or not should be judged by the extent to which the artist doing so is able to identify with the original writer. The underlying chord patterns and lyrics can’t be shifted around from one performer to another without any effect on their meaning, because a performance of any kind can’t be separated from the individual making that performance. So I would say that any cover or re-appropriation should be done with awareness of the writer, as a matter of respect, rather than with any particular performance in mind.

What do you think about the use of sampling in hip-hop and dance music, Jack? To what extent is sampling a loaded act? Hip-hop tends to use samples in a radically different context (think about Xzibit’s “Paparazzi”, for example), so can that be said in any way to be a comment on the original music? Then there are other tunes that are more explicitly referening the original e.g. Tupac’s use of “That’s Just the Way it is”. Then at the extreme you have people like Fat Boy Slim and Moby who pretty much just pimp the whole thing.

And as a matter of interest, what do you feel is at stake in this discussion? Why is this important?
 
 
Char Aina
20:01 / 31.01.04
to use the visual metaphor, hip hop is collage not just a repaint.

the whole art of collage is the recontextualization.
 
 
40%
22:14 / 31.01.04
Right. So, to what extent could the statement that

any version of "Comfortably Numb" functions not only as a song in itself, but also as an implicit comment on Pink Floyd.

be applied to hip-hop?
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
11:02 / 01.02.04
That's something that interests me, too: is the constant resampling of Isaac Hayes's and James Brown's stuff a comment on how good the artists themselves were, or on how good their session guys are, or how instrumental in the development of music they are, or what? Where does separation between those different parts of appreciation end or begin? Can you unpick them?

I guess the question is this: in collage, does everything have to have intrinsic meaning, or can it just be whacked in because it looks [sounds] fucking awesome?
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
16:27 / 02.02.04
Let's get this out of the way - the horrendous term "rockist" is not without meaning, it's just nasty, coming as it does from the same school of coinage that thought that "sports metal" and "rage rock" were good terms to describe the sub-school of nu-metal that arose with Korn and the Deftones a decade or so ago. I mean, what is "rockist" actually supposed to mean? Useless and ugly phrase.

Nasty also, however in that its existence implies the existence of tenets of "rockism", to which the "rockist" subscribes, in the same way as the socialist nominally subscribes to socialism (anyone old enough to remember when that was true?)... or the racist subscribes to racism, the misogynist subscribes to misogyny (to get away from pure -isms) - and that's the association in mind when the phrase "rockist" is used. It's a similar construction to how the right created the term "politically correct" to describe, and then demonise/ridicule behaviour they saw as typically "loony left", and it's a reasonably stagnant methodology in argument, done more for playground effect than for any other reason.

This phrase, from the estimable Superfly's blog "Bear in mind that what the 'rockists' have been doing in the meantime has often been making songs that use acoustic guitars, but that will never be played round a campfire because nobody would want to hear, let alone play, them ever again" - referring to the oft-repeated and clearly shitemongering falsehood that a good song has to still sound great played on acoustic instruments (yeah, and I convinced my spooky darling to go out with me by thumping her on the head and carrying her back to my cave... Jesus H Bomb, this was the 21st century last time I checked) - is an example of this kind of reversion. See, "rockist" automatically means "shit" in this lexicon, and, like I said, implies the "wrong, repugnant, objectionable" connotation taken from the affiliation with terms like racist, sexist, etc. This allows the writer - who I love like a younger and taller brother, and who will, I hope, not mind me quoting him - to make a rather crass generalisation subsequent to the use of the word, probably more for comic effect than for any other reason. Because "rockists" do not write songs you want to hear, let alone play - ah, the terrible lonely irony of being a rockist, for whom the song/songwriter relationship is all, and yet who can't write tunes for toffee apples.

But just because it's horrible, stagnant, and playground to coin such a phrase, which only describes an opinion-based stance on the merits of popular music, after all, does not mean it's meaningless. Stripped of the associations that the sign "rockist" allows, the signifier is based on observed and recorded phenomena, phenomena which can be observed on this forum on the Underground on a regular basis.

So there. Rant over, I return you to your original thread.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
16:40 / 02.02.04
Rothkoid - I've always found the beauty of collage is that you can have it both ways - you can combine elements to create a new whole that doesn't refer back to the context involved in the referents, but just creates a single new piece (like, possibly, Moby's songs that sample near-forgotten blues and gospel vocals, where only a trainspotter would identify and appreciate the lift independently of the new work) or you can create a new piece in which the context of the individual referents is brought out - an example might be Apollo 440's 'Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Dub', which lifts and tinkers with the riff and title of Van Halen's 'Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love', allowing a referral back to both the classic rock original, and the band (Apollo 440 get to lionise VH in interviews), and creating an indelible link between the two tunes.

Another interesting example (forgive me, I'm not up on the history of the sample itself, don't know where it originally comes from) is the sampled brass intro to House Of Pain's 'Jump Around', which has been used, without alteration, as the intro for so many other tunes by other artists that it no longer works as an introduction for a specific track by a specific artist - you're left guessing who it might be until the track proper starts, and so making reference back to other artists, other tracks, before the song has even started.
 
 
Jack Fear
17:44 / 02.02.04
That seems spot-on to me, Bodiless. But I fear we've wandered pretty far afield of what I was trying to get at... Shall I have another go?

What I'm talking about is the way songs propogate themselves, and the way we as listeners relate to them: as participants, or as consumers.

While the notion that "a good song has to sound good on acoustic instruments" may indeed be "a shitemongering falsehood," I would put forth the thesis that such songs are more memetically robust than songs that are structured around recording-studio frippery, which may be very beautiful indeed but are something of a hothouse flower, less likely to survive in the larger memepool.

I also posit that it's probably too soon to say with any certainty whether my thesis is sound or bullshit, because the means to even create such studio-bound music is still relatively new (in cultural terms), so its impact on the larger memepool is as yet uncertain.

To elaborate:

What I'm calling highly-structured music--traditional "rock" style song-forms, based around live instrumentation--is more prone to propagation.

If anything, the production-based (as opposed to performace-based) output of Fatboy Slim et al is far more in the musique concrete tradition than the hyperproduced pop of Timbaland and the Neptunes, which at least have some recognizably human component: not only can you not strum "Praise You" on an acoustic guitar, you can't sing it in the shower, because human voices just don't do that.

Likewise, the idea of publishing sheet music for "Praise You" is laughable. Although ostensibly a vocal number, it's entirely a creation of the studio--irreproducible. Incapable of reproduction (though obviously of mass production). Sterile, in the dictionary sense.

(The aesthetics and merits of collage, sampling, et cetera, are really beside the point. It's simply not the same as a cover version, or singing the song around a campfire: whereas those activities are analogous to reproduction, sampling is more akin to cannibalism.)

Music that's highly structured--highly reproducible, standing up to multiple interpretations in a variety of contexts while still remaining essentially itself--is music as meme; participatory, samizdat, evolving. If it lasts long enough, it becomes a folk song--the original authorship is forgotten and the notion of "ownership" becomes moot: it "belongs" to anyone who sings it.

Whereas musique concrete--music tied to a single "definitive" recording, highly produced but irreproducible--is music as commodity, music as art object: it is encapsulated in a particular physical object; it cannot be "performed" as such, only bought and sold.

Does this dichotomy make sense? ring true? am I full of shit? Assuming I am not (or am), what political and cultural ramifications are there?
 
 
grant
20:06 / 02.02.04
I wish I'd read this thread when I was in grad school.

Yeah, I'd say music that encourages "play" is alive in a way that music that doesn't encourage "play" is not.

I'm not sure that sample-based stuff/one-time-recording, many-times-reproduced is the final word, though -- I think it discourages play in the same way that sheet music encourages play, but that newer technology (sampling software, affordable computers, that stuff) encourages that specific *form* of play in a way that sheet music doesn't. Sampling, remixing, bootlegging, all that jazz. It's like the RIAA wants to create these canonic, "proper" versions of songs, but there's this democratic/anarchic response in the form of not just piracy, but remixing, sampling, folding, spindling & mutilating the originals. Not just doing weird covers (which is an art I love), but using the actual original recorded material and repositioning it.

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Tangent: I think the use of terms like "rockist" is a sign that rock, like jazz before it, has finally matured into a musical niche/conoisseur market. It ain't about the kids anymore.
 
  
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