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Six Feet Under (series three UK terrestrial - have pity on the technology impaired!)

 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
23:20 / 26.01.04
The third series of Six Feet Under begins on c4 this Thursday, and I am looking foward to it greatly.

I can't even remember much about what was going on... but I cannot wait, it's possibly my favourite ever show. The only downfall being that I find it hard to seperate Nate/Flyboy in my brain.

BILLY!

Indeed. I hope those who have already watched will be courteous enough to come and talk about with us lesser poor folk. (hello Flux!) This is one of those shows where I check online right after - it just needs to be talked about y'know? Let's all remember that!
 
 
The Strobe
22:15 / 29.01.04
I'm quite tired so coherent thoughts tomorrow but:

wow. Great, great opening ten minutes. I mean, I guessed it might be, but the multiple-Nate-scenarios were quite surprising, most of all "Say 'Cat', Nate". Not sure how I'm warming to the scenario as it stands, but it's almost certainly going to be turned on its head. Also, Lisa's boss is terrifying in the oddest way.

I always have a fondness for the episodes written by Alan Ball; he has a very clear idea of what the show is to him, and that focus gives and edge to his writing.

More when I've thought longer and other people have stuck heads in. But basically: it's like having old friends back again.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
22:32 / 29.01.04
Shit Paleface, I was going to say that exact same thing.

Like an old friend; still sort of adjusting to each others changed situations.

I have this feeling that there's some major changes/dramatic overhaul/something big looming...

I love this show. Even though I knew Nate didn't die, it didn't stop me shouting "NO!" at the screen, and feeling terribly bewildered by the multiple Nates. I thought it was brilliant.

Lisa's boss just gives me Home Alone flashbacks, I'm hoping I can get over that. Kathy Bates next week!

Tired/happy. Please can we all talk about this?
 
 
Olulabelle
07:08 / 30.01.04
Look now I know I probably sound completely thick, but is Nate dead or not? He isn't right?

But if he isn't and he's with Lisa can someone remind me how this has occurred, as at the end of the last series he was about to get married to Brenda. And if he is dead and this is just an entire episode of one of his scenarios, shouldn't Brenda still be featured a little? The one minor reference of 'last year I was engaged to Brenda' didn't help me at all.

I'm really not understanding. I feel like I missed an entire series, which obviously I didn't and I'm sure I can't have forgotten that much.
 
 
The Strobe
08:15 / 30.01.04
Oulabelle: Nate is not dead. He might have been for a while, but when he observed his state in the white coffin, he turned out to be alive.

He was going to get married to Brenda. Then she spent a series fucking a succession of people relatively randomly, for reasons even she doesn't quite know, but it's something to do with committment. The season ended with the other clip shown in the previously segment - Brenda packed up her house and moved away. Yes, they were going to get married, but even Nate has a bullshit-threshold.

And, nine months have passed since the end of last season, so many things have changed subtly.
 
 
Olulabelle
09:57 / 30.01.04
Weird. I have complete memory failure of Brenda moving away, and I missed the previously bit. But still, Nate moving in with Lisa?
 
 
Smoothly
10:05 / 30.01.04
I thought this was a fantastic start to the series. I loved all the Schroedinger's cat stuff (the clips on the soap-opera an alternative Nate finds himself watching, in particular), and it just seemed like an inspired way to kick things off.
As for the 'Is he alive, is he dead?', 'What about Brenda?' stuff, I suppose the point is that in one way he did die, he did marry Brenda... etc etc, but the show's just going to follow the universe in which he survives and goes with Lisa. Which is a pretty neat way of dealing with that kind of cliff-hanger I reckon.
 
 
The Strobe
10:13 / 30.01.04
...and of course, as Oulabelle has pointed out, whilst in the universe that we're watching, Nate has married Lisa... that feels more like one of the bizarro-worlds, and less like the "reality" we'd have expected from the show. Which is, I'd guess, going to be part of the fun for the next three months...
 
 
Jack Vincennes
10:15 / 30.01.04
Lisa's boss was brilliant - "I just don't appreciate Nate's constant hostility in parking on the drive" and "This is McG here" in particular. Just awful.

Keith and David talking about their feelings was great as well. It's the way you can see David's quick mental debate about telling Keith "I felt shamed by your comments" -the slight hestiation, and the pointed way he said it. It was funny, but it also looked entirely natural. And then Keith's total disbelief that this was even a issue...

In common with everyone else who's written, I thought that the all the different Nate scenarios were done excellently -it looked like one of the fantasy sequences from the previous series, but the fact that (at that point you thought) he was dead made it slightly more disorienting, because it wasn't obvious where the plot was going to go after the first break.

Basically, it's just good to have it back on TV...
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
11:01 / 30.01.04
I can't help getting the feeling Nate's going to snap out of it soon, maybe when his "flashbacks" end. Or did they already? I dunno, I just loved how that worked - I'm really pleased with the way they portrayed that feeling.

I think it's great, because it's totally in keeping with character to my mind - I could totally see him being like this after nearly dying, and being the happy dad. I can't see it lasting though, it's kind of exciting. I have so much anticipation for what's going to happen, and I'm certain that things won't be staying this way for long.

I have kind of disliked Brenda, but I do miss the way her and Nate talk to each other (when they got on well, that is). That dialogue is so natural, I don't know, something just felt right about it - and like those two people should really be together. Also, I like when Nate seems more intelligent. That sounds stupid, but I always get the feeling he's not thought of as too smart (I'm not sure where I'm getting this, in all honesty), and I've always see him as a pretty clever self aware guy.

Poor Ruth!

One thing I didn't catch the details of - where was Claire (with the band)? And did she leave the body in her car?
 
 
The Strobe
11:28 / 30.01.04
She signed the form for the body on top of the box with the guy.

The band, as far as I can tell, were rehearsing in the crem, just around the corner from the oven. I think.
 
 
Squirmelia
09:34 / 02.02.04
I missed about the last 20 minutes. Did anything important happen in that time?

Lisa annoys me immensely, and actually seems far more screwed up than Brenda to me.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:15 / 02.02.04
He was going to get married to Brenda. Then she spent a series fucking a succession of people relatively randomly, for reasons even she doesn't quite know, but it's something to do with committment. The season ended with the other clip shown in the previously segment - Brenda packed up her house and moved away. Yes, they were going to get married, but even Nate has a bullshit-threshold.

This is a little one-sided. In the first place I think there's a strong case for saying that the problems in Nate & Brenda's relationship followed on directly from events at the end of season 1: namely, Billy's attack on Brenda and subsequent commital, and Nate's diagnosis with AVM. In fact, I think there's a strong argument to be made that Nate's initial decision not to tell Brenda about his condition is where things start to go wrong. Okay, so Brenda is pretty screwed up by both Billy's absence from her life and the fall-out from him trying to mutilate her (as I recall the first is mentioned explicitly by her, the second you have to infer but if you think about it at all, it's pretty obvious), but I doubt she would have withdrawn into constant weed-smoking and eventually random sex with strangers were it not for the fact that Nate rapidly becomes distant and withdrawn himself. She can tell there's something he's keeping from her on some level, and this in turn prevents her from sharing everything she's going through with him (because his attention is elsewhere, and because communication between them is breaking down). By the time he does tell her, a lot of damage has been done to their relationship, with the result that it just sends her spiralling into self-destruction that much more quickly (because 'Your Brother's A Wacko & Your Fiance Is Going To Die').

Oh, and in the meantime he's fucked somebody else. Funny how a lot of people keep forgetting that technically the first person to be unfaithful in the Nate/Brenda relationship is Nate, who sleeps with Lisa when he visits Seattle, conceiving Moya the Baby Leviathan in the process. Of course, Brenda doesn't know that when she cheats on him for the first time (in the same episode wherein Nate finds out that Lisa's pregnant and we get confirmation that he slept with her), and she'd arguably "crossed the line" before that. But I think that Nate has to be assigned major culpability in the (something he admits in the final episode of season 2), or at least more culpability than a significant proportion of viewers seem willing to give him.

With Brenda's arc in season 2, I gather (and I'm basing this on interviews with Rachel Griffiths as well as the show) that the writers wanted to see if they could show a lead female character engaging in certain kinds of behaviour whilst keeping the sympathy of the viewers. I don't think they succeeded, but when I've read certain response to season 2 I get the impression this has more to do with the viewers than it does with the show. Personally, I only got really annoyed when she was using psychobabble (or worse, her 'novel') to justify her actions - Brenda's personal brand of denial is one of the most annoying I've seen. I don't want to give anything away, but let's just say that season 3 does an extremely good job of making Brenda more than likeable to surely all but the hardest hearts. With that in mind, Lisa is definitely there to remind us what was likeable about Brenda. Squirmelia, if she's annoying you so far, I fear for your eyes and television set in the next few weeks...
 
 
_pin
12:51 / 02.02.04
Lisa is awful. She has bad lines, a bad voice and a bad stare, and now I'm not gonna be able to look at her baby without seeing Pilot in her head. Fucking thanks a bunch, Fly...

Am I wrong, or is this the first time that we've had a quantifiable afterlife, or somesuch thing? For the first two years, I always thought that the deaths were meaningless (I remember people here complaining that they weren't and should have been), like when the gay guy gets beaten up in series one, he wasn't really ashamed of being gay, he didn't really think he should have been killed; David was just making the guy say those things because that's what he was thinking at the time.

Nate's near-death time at the start, with it coming up again throughout, seemed to me to be the first real indication of a spirituality that hadn't been there until now. I'm also not really sure if I want the show going in that direction.

Maybe beeting Lisa's stupid, Ruth-hating face into a fucking wall would make it better.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:01 / 02.02.04
Or it could have all been a dream Nate had on the operating table, which he remembers at various points later in the episode. It's not like prophetic dreams aren't catalogued 'real' phenomenon. But in general I think it's best left open-ended: as real or as metaphorical as you want it to be.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
13:15 / 02.02.04
That's how I felt about that beginning, as well. I just thought they portrayed those odd, kind of vague memories of feelings you can't remember having very well - and it's best left at that.

With Brenda, for me, she always annoyed me immensely. It was usually her psychobabble, that was a bad choice on the writers part if they wanted people to be sympathetic towards her! Also, I think in some ways the way she went about these things was a little odd.

I'm not trying to justify what Nate did - because that's pretty fucked up - I just think for whatever reason people find it easier to excuse as it's more widely heard of in their knowledge of relationships, perhaps? I explained that very badly. But it seems more possible for real, rather than the more unknown of Brenda.

I never saw the show in question with Nate/Lisa, so I was always unsure about it. It's a good thing for you to point out Flyboy. (Although I don't think Paleface meant to be one sided, in just a quick explanation. This is what you get if you miss the previously section - which was the longest ever!)

But it's defintely worth remembering the massively fucked up nature of the whole thing, and not just Brenda herself. Personally, I already feel the sympathy for Brenda - in one of the last shows of season 2, with the two stoner boys... but that was one of the most heart breaking things I've ever seen on television. I think it was just then that I realised how she felt, and why she was doing what she was, and it just made me want to hug her.

And as I mentioned earlier, I think almost everyone now appreciates how much love Nate and Brenda actually shared. However fucked up they might have got, I always enjoyed the chemistry between them and the way they (could) be with each other, in the quieter/normal moments.

Did anyone else think, when Nate was trying to talk to Lisa about something, and she just kind of mumbled replies and/or didn't understand, how important Brenda (or someone like her) is for Nate? That's kinda of vague, but I can't really remember the exact moment, I think it was near the end.
 
 
The Strobe
20:15 / 02.02.04
Well, I know it was a bit one-sided, but I was only trying to answer Squirmelia's question as to where Brenda had gone, as Suedehead pointed out (ta). I didn't quite have the time to write an expansive essay, Flyboy; thank you for expanding and correcting me.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
17:51 / 03.02.04
Nate's near-death time at the start, with it coming up again throughout, seemed to me to be the first real indication of a spirituality that hadn't been there until now

Having just watched the first half of season one I have to disagree to an extent. I think that there's a sense of spirituality though never utterly confirmed that runs right through Six Feet Under. Moments like Rico's kids christening, Nate never denying that there is a God, the church going, Ruth's experience on ecstasy all confirm this notion of the spiritual indirectly. It's just so subtle, as many elements of the show are, that you don't notice it until this episode brings it the forefront.
 
 
The Strobe
21:27 / 03.02.04
The constant-yet-unconfirmed spirituality is something I'd definitely agree about; in part, I guess that's down to the influence of Thomas Lynch, mainly on the first episode. Lynch, if you don't know (or haven't heard me bang on), is an undertaker, writer, and poet, whose writing Alan Ball admits to being influenced by in part. His book The Undertaking is wonderful, a collection of essays on the various ways death has affected Lynch in his line of work. A second book of essays, Bodies in Motion and at Rest is also worth checking out. Lynch is more emphatically Christian, but he frequently returns to the idea that death is a constant for people wherever they are, whatever they are. Everything that he does, and everything from the moment of death, is done for those still alive. As he puts it, the dead don't care. And that's something that's in some ways at the heart of Six Feet Under; every episode has the titlecard of the "Corpse of the Week" as it were, and yet so often, it's everything that that death affects, that is the real focus of the show.
 
 
_pin
10:02 / 04.02.04
Yeh, but that's kind of where my point about no spirituality (not that the characters don't have a sense of the spiritual in their lives, but that there's no actual fact about God in the 6ft world, but rather that these people are making it up to cope) comes from; death does effect these people, but they make up things like their father's ghost, and they warp what little they know about the dead body in the basement so that it somehow fits in to their world.

Before last week's episode I didn't think that there had been any proof that this belife in an afterlife and a god had any actual founding in the series. But then as you've all said, I could jsut be reading way too much in to it.
 
 
Squirmelia
12:03 / 02.04.04
Only 3 episodes left now, it seems. Lisa has disappeared, but to where? Is she hiding behind a gravestone? Maybe I should get around to getting Sky so that I can see the next series when it appears.
 
 
pornotaxi
15:40 / 03.04.04
Maybe I should get around to getting Sky so that I can see the next series when it appears.

save your money, and just download them via bittorrent a few hours after they're first shown on hbo, across the pond.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
18:43 / 04.04.04
I love this show so much, right now. I'm assuming anyone reading this thread has seen most of the series (1,2 and 3) so far - by the way.

I've been watching the first season box set, and I just love it. I had so much to say - but it's all gone! Going back to this series is extra great for a variety of reasons;

1. I missed the pilot.
2. I can barely remember what happens.
3. It's so interesting to see how all the chracacters have grown. And it really works!

The impact of Nate/Brenda seems all the more apparent (It's nice to see Brenda has become less annoying recently...). How David has grown in to himself, how Claire has grown up from her "angry teenager" days, but still hasn't managed to get out of her awful "guy cycle" (I really want to think of another term, for that. She probably put it best herself, in the last show. Something like "I just fall for any guy that shows an interest in me").

I've noticed they tended to use more of their specific devices in the earlier shows - the talking to dead people/Ally McBeal style (maybe because of this? Random thought) kind of stuff that hasn't popped up so much in season three. I don't think there's anything wrong with that - I just noticed it. I do love the sequence where Claire bursts in to song - because it's such an accurate portrayal of how she's feeling.

It almost seems like they used all that to hook people in to the show, get them used to it, and now everything (in season three, at least) is bubbling just under the surface, almost. It's so sprawling to take everything in, this way, but it works so well.

It's such a detailed work, in many ways. I watched the Godfather, the other day. I've never really cared for the film - but this time I was enthralled with all the family drama and conflict. However, I think this series is far more effective in many ways - giving you the chance to really watch everyone grow and change. The scope is absurd - but it really keeps in the tone it's set. It's beautiful! I think it's great that there can be a series of such high quality and production values - it really is just like one big film. Better than that - it's completely worthwhile.

I love David and Keith's relationship, right now. One long confusing slog punctuated by these little moments of joy that make you see why they're making so much effort.

God, I really must apologise for the terrible rambling nature of this post. But seriously - I've just watched around 7 episodes in a row and I'm just totally...there.

ps. Poor Claire! I wish she were real, so I could be her friend and give her a hug.

Only three episodes left! And it all comes crashing down...

Where's Bettina?
 
 
PatrickMM
03:35 / 15.09.04
I just saw the third season finale, fucking amazing, the best episode of the entire series, IMO. The series had always had a lot of strong emotional content, but nothing reached the highs and lows of that arc that closed out the third season. The juxtaposition of Nate's problems, with Brenda's little victory with Joe, then Ruth getting married vs. Claire's abortion, with David suffering, then turning it around. So much happened, and it was all just so powerful. The final scene was just beautiful. I'm numb after watching that, amazing television.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
20:12 / 23.09.04
It's like a really good, slow blow job. You know the big bang will come if you just have faith that they will stop jerking you around eventually and give you what you want, what you really really want. I'm way behind, being extraterrestrially challenged, and in the UK, but this week's had so many beautifully wrought karmic reversals.

Oh, Federico, Danger Danger High Voltage! And so many other spoileresque moments one could enumerate... It has admittedly taken a wee while to build up to this present orgasm of square eyed delight but that just heightens the the delayed gratification.
 
  
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