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"Groups", "Tribes" of music fans- good or bad?

 
 
All Acting Regiment
16:12 / 25.01.04
Okay, pretty much everyone remembers when they were younger and it was teddy boys vs beatles fans, hell's angels versus students, punks vs ravers etc etc etc. Walk through any shopping centre and you'll see gangs of people (usually kids, but sometimes surprisingly older) being standoffsih to eachother because of what the other party's perceived musical tastes are.

What do we all think about this and related issues?
 
 
40%
20:52 / 25.01.04
I did a sociology project on musical subcultures once. Wasn't very good, just an excuse to talk to all my friends about music (some more).

I can see the appeal of identifying with one group and thereby against another, sure. But with music? That would mean identifying completely with one style of music and completely against another. I've never been willing to do that, even when I was very young. There's too much good music in all kinds of different styles.

Kindof a boring answer but true.
 
 
Rage
07:04 / 26.01.04
"Your favorite band sucks." -shirt

It's what the bands are singing about that the kids are fighting over, or what the bands sound sound like. So it becomes a battle of ideas or asethetic preferences masked as a battle of bands. Yet kids are kids, so they don't realize what they're actually fighting over. At least that's my take on it.

Or maybe I'm wrong, and music fans are as stupid as sports fans.
 
 
rizla mission
11:29 / 26.01.04
It's what the bands are singing about that people are fighting over, or what they sound like. So it becomes a battle of ideas or asethetic preferences masked as a battle of bands. Yet kids are stpuid, so they don't realize what they're actually fighting over. At least that's my take on it.

Yeah, that's basically it isn't it.. and fair enough I suppose, a lot of the time it's cool for kids to feel like they belong to something, have a readymade gang of allies in any given situation etc. You could go into the sheer ridiculousness of the position taken by all these kids in Slipknot hoodies carrying on like they're so much better than those other dumb kids with their stupid manufactured pop etc., but give 'em a break, they're only kids.. If they're still saying that when they're 30 I suppose then it becomes something of a problem..

what was I talking about again?

Oh yeah, musical cliques and so forth. I actually really enjoy watching the way they develop, figuring out which people fit into each one etc. It was interesting the other night, I went to see Converge play, and they seemed to attract a really wide variety of different kinds of fans of 'heavy music' - straight edge hardcore kids, drunken punky kids, metalheads, bearded stoner dudes, braver species of indie kids, nerdy noise-freaks etc. It was interesting watching these different groups whose taste in music was basically the same but with different haircuts and vocal styles interact, especially given the similar variety of the support bands - this band made up of grumpy skinhead guys come on and start with "we are hardcore from Belgium, this song's about falling down and picking yourself up" or some similar nonsense, and all the H-C kids go nuts for them while I stand there thinking "god, this is lame..", and then a stoner/metal band follow them and I, and the stoner/metal people in the audience, are like "yeah, this is great!", while the hardcore folks wander off to pointedly NOT go to the bar or whatever it is they do..
There was no huge musical difference between the two bands, just that the latter one had longer hair and guitar solos and growly vocals, and yet completely different reactions, from me as well as everybody else, just based on preconcieved sub-cultural divisions, and pretty small ones at that..

And what's that rousing tale supposed to illustrate? I dunno.. I guess the fact that, given my wide-ranging musical taste, I find myself trying to fit into any number of different sub-cultures as the occasion demands, and it's surprisingly easy to get caught up in one of them or the other, even if it's only for one evening, despite oweing equal allegiance to all of them and constantly reminding yourself that strict genre divisions are pointless anyway.. or something.
 
 
cusm
19:33 / 26.01.04
Or maybe I'm wrong, and music fans are as stupid as sports fans.

I thought the success of Boy Bands in general was proof of this.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
20:06 / 26.01.04
A story from my teenage years...

Me (male), in Placebo t-shirt, and with picture of Brian Molko stuck to every available peice of school literature (I was 13, it was radical and underground).

Rest of school consists of horrid violent scally crack dealer gangsta wannabes, and some slightly richer middle class twats who stand around sneering and trying to look "cool", wearing the same outfits as the other mob, but slightly cleaner.

Anyway, there are at any given time two "rings" of people around me: the first, the twatting ring, is the scallies, and then there's the "piss taking from a distance" ring, the middle class twats.

So that goes on for a bit. And then all of a sudden the cool middle class twats start wearing placebo t-shirts themselves and saying how much they "hate scallys, man". And all of a sudden, I am appatrently a "wannabe" as opposed to a "greasy freak who wears freakish t-shirts innit".

As with the post about the converge gig, I'm not sure what this illustrates, apart from perhaps the fact that I'm a cunt who likes to feel sorry for himself by whingeing about the painful strands of his being on messageboards.

Perhaps it shows that kids, and therefore adults, who are just kids playing at being adults, are twats.
 
 
Jack Fear
21:25 / 26.01.04
Interestingly enough, Chris, your tortured anecdote above makes no mention whatsoever of the actual music.

Which perhaps is kind of the point.
 
 
The resistable rise of Reidcourchie
12:30 / 28.01.04
I fucking hate casuals.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:32 / 28.01.04
They speak very highly of you.
 
 
The resistable rise of Reidcourchie
13:00 / 28.01.04
Oh Christ, now I feel awful.

How about, I fucking hate Mods?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:27 / 28.01.04
Mods, not so much with the speaking highly of ya. They kinda think you suck.
 
 
The resistable rise of Reidcourchie
14:02 / 28.01.04
I knew it! I mean what kind of sub culture wears a parka to keep their clothes clean? Bunch a pussies.

What we really need to do is divide the members of Barbelith up into groups roughly corresponding to their taste in music, team dress and then have a big fight after school.

It'll be just like West Side story.

I'm in charge of the show tune posse or the Chicago Cat Express as we prefer to be called.
 
 
Locust No longer
17:38 / 28.01.04
This is interesting, for my musical experience was really started in the anarcho/hyperpolitical crustie punk scene, where affiliation meant more than simply enjoying fast music with growled vocals. Undoubtedly, there were some (and some may argue, most) who put on the costume and got the mohawks to simply be part of something, but I think, speaking for myself, that it was very much more about a lifestyle of defiance, and awareness of the world. Now, I've lost the hawk and most of the decals and have become a much different person, at least outwardly, but still feel a strong respect for the anarcho punk contigent. With age, if only slight, I've certainly become aware of the inconsistancies of the 'scene,' which like it or not, is very defined by the newest Japanese hardcore band and the coinciding t-shirt and stud medley. However, I think there is something, ultimately, community based about the punk scene, especially the DIY political hardcore scene, that sets it apart from say, the Nu-metal or country or techno scenes. For, the 'scene' was developed by a fiercely independent group of like-minded individuals who tried to create a culture that did hinge heavily on a style music, but more importantly was based on a foundation of insubordination and rejection of the status quo. One may argue to the relevence or success of this loose community, but it certainly is there. Simply look at www.Profaneexistence.com or www.Crimethinc.com for a few ready examples.
 
 
UnTaMeD
09:42 / 30.01.04
yeah chris i see your point(obviously - same college)
if any other peeps have been lacosted by some skallie c-nts and asked "are you a goth or a mosher? they always assume that i listen to some ear-bleedingly pant-shittingly heavy shit that would knock the nose off an old woman at 40 miles. but musical taste only comes into it a bit. i think theyre just scared of being the new "out" crowd, which basically is what they are. And the slanderous comments in the lancaster post about "goths" and "moshers" with highly inaccurate descriptions of said "tribes" make it no better for people like me who just chill out with some shit heavy riffs and then maybe a bit of floyd or zeppelin later on
 
 
lord nuneaton savage
11:08 / 30.01.04
Real Mods don't wear parkas, they leave that to the third class tickets.
 
 
Lea-side
11:13 / 30.01.04
how did i know that was coming.
 
 
The resistable rise of Reidcourchie
15:52 / 30.01.04
I still hate mods. (Actually I'm listening to the Who at the moment).

I remember as a rock fan at college waiting for all the straights.casuals/townies choose your invective to oppress us due to our status as free thinking, individualistic, counter culture warriors. I'm still waiting. I've no doubt they'll get round to it. Probably busy listening to Yazz or something. Any moment now.
 
 
UnTaMeD
07:22 / 03.02.04
what i meant to say was maybe the media should highlight the importance of multiculturalism (is thatr the right spell?)
I recently saw in a paper (lancaster post) that "moshers" and "goths" are terrorising shoppers in the town centre of blackburn. Maybe they should concentrate less on the labelling of these young kids and concentrate more on revealing the problems of drug induced crime in trodden down areas, where the poor people who have no choice but live there are beaten, maybe murdered, raped, burgled and then spat (sometimes shat) on by petty? thieves. Madness. I'm sick of the music taste prejudice. its pathetic. i admit i may sink down to a certain level when i label the opressive bastards that i have to encounter in my everyday life "skally c-nts" but theres no other choiced when it comes down to you getting attacked outside a starbucks in warner brothers cinema in full view of about 100 people, by baz and his ten mates gaz, daz, raz, taz, biff, boffer, big dave, scatzy, greeny and tommo. maybe one day the media will attract attention to these mindless prats. i recommend the website: www.scallycentral.co.uk
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
07:27 / 03.02.04
admit i may sink down to a certain level when i label the opressive bastards that i have to encounter in my everyday life "skally c-nts" but theres no other choiced

Right! There's never any other choiced but to fall back on offensive class-based stereotypes, is there?
 
 
The resistable rise of Reidcourchie
09:34 / 03.02.04
Excuse my naivety but isn't scally another tribe, describing a mind set or a sub culture rather than a class?
 
  
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