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You can Bet on Bukowski

 
  

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Ender
04:02 / 25.01.04
SPLASH-
by Charles Bukowski

The illusion is that you are simply
reading this poem.
the reality is this is more than a
poem.
this is a beggar's knife.
this is a tulip.
this is a soldier marching
through madrid.
this is you on your death bed.
this is Li PO laughing
underground.
this is not a god-damned poem.
this is a horse asleep.
a butterfly in your brain.
this is the devils
circus you are not reading this on a page the page is
reading you. feel it?
it's like a cobra.
it's a hungry eagle
circling the room.

this is not a poem.
poems are dull
they make you sleep.

these words force you to a new madness.

you have been blessed, you have been pushed
into a blinding area of light.

the elephant dreams with you now.
the curve of space bends and laughs.

you can die now.
you can die now as people were meant to die:
great,
victorious,
hearing the music,
being the music,
roaring
roaring,
roaring.
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
13:29 / 25.01.04
And I can go you one better...

RAPE OF THE HOLY MONTHER
by Charles Bukowski

to expose your ass on paper
terrifies some
and
it should:
the more you put down
the more you leave yourself
open
to those who label themselves
"critics."
they are offended by the out-
right antics of the
maddened.
they prefer their posey to be
secretive
soft and
nearly indecipherable
their game has remained un-
molested for
centuries,
it has been the temple of
the snobs and the
fakers.
to disrupt this sanctuary
is to them
like the Rape of the Holy Mother
 
 
Ender
17:01 / 25.01.04
That is a gem,
but how about

THE WORST
by Charles Bukowski

in the hospitals and jails
it's the worst
in madhouses
it's the worst
in penthouses
it's the worst
in skid row flophouses
it's the worst
at poetry readings
at rock concerts
at benefits for the disabled
it's the worst
at funerals
at weddings
it's the worst
at parades
at skating rinks
at sexual orgies
it's the worst
at midnight
at 3 a.m.
at 5:45 p.m.
it's the worst
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
20:05 / 25.01.04
Copyright
Infringement
Rocks
Ass.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
12:00 / 26.01.04
I think this level of posting poems is probably OK (as this is non-profit), but too much more and we might be on dodgy ground...

I'd like to hear why benfoxdance likes Bukowski so much - it'd be nice to have a personal opinion as well as examples. I've never read Bukowski - tell me why I should.
 
 
Ender
15:04 / 26.01.04
Being a word junki as I am, finding Bukowski on the shelf was better luck than tripping over solid bricks of crack. And now being hooked on his translucent love for women booze and the racetracks, when you ask me 'why should I read Bukowski?' I wrinkle my brow, to me that is like asking 'why should I breathe?'.

I wouldn't want to glorify any one writer to be the greatest, or the 'best of our time' or even call any writer a litary god, but I will say that this writer can pry my cold and callused heart wide open, and make it do a little dance. He grabs hold of any thoughts you may have that are not bolted down and he throws them out the window, no, he brings in a wrecking ball to the side of your head, and all that you once knew you just don't anymore. Then there you are, a little bitch on the sidewalk empty as hell, waiting to be filled, and he comes along, and walks right by. If you're lucky he might turn his head to and say, "Buy my book, loser." and trust me you'll worship him for it.
 
 
telyn
22:25 / 29.01.04
I don't find Bukowski's poetry as absorbing as benfoxdance, but sometimes he writes with a clarity just describing the moment he's living and it's something special. The book I own is a anthology of later works published post-humously by his wife. The reason I own it is there is a poem about listening to Bach and Mozart at 4am which I read in a book shop and decided I wanted that book.

In most of that anthology Bukowski (also known as Chianski [sp?]) writes autobiographically, either events that have happened to him or what he thinks about something. He does completely love the race track and his seemingly endless stream of women, alcohol, misery and insomnia. I understand that the way he writes has a literary value and was probably ground breaking in its day but I'm not really interested in that or his major choices of topic. Bukowski's account of his life is bleak and empty and harsh, but just sometimes (like the poem mentioned above) he is at peace with the world or he has an insight about something that makes it worthwhile to read.
 
 
Doctor Singapore
01:17 / 30.01.04
I discovered Bukowski while at college in SoCal -- not too far away from the man's favorite horse track, actually. I've always preferred his prose (mainly short stories) to his poetry, myself...but both draw from the same autobiographical well.
Because Bukowski's work is autobiographical, and because he portrays life as seen on the street and in bars, slums, and gutters, some people have compared him to the Beats. In fact, his writing has much more in common with Henry Miller. Both authors take a kind of joy in portraying their troubles and flaws--poverty, drunkenness, and sexual obsession cheif among them. Like Miller, Bukowski writes at length about women and sex, and he has been called obscene and misogynistic for the same reasons that Miller was.
But Bukowski doesn't write like Miller does. Bukowski writes like a Hemingway who never made it out of Chicago. An Earth-2 Hemingway, with the same thirst for booze and short temper, the same "life's a bitch and then you die" attitude -- but stuck sorting boxes instead of running with the bulls, and vacationing on Skid Row instead of on safari.
I enjoy Bukowski because his work has a strong (and delibarate) existentialist streak -- the absurdity and hopelessness of life isn't just a concept he discusses, but a reality that he portrays in his own life and those of the people around him. His writing is rude, profound, bitter, touching and laugh-out-loud funny--often all at the same time. There's a good anthology of his work, called "Run with the Hunted", with selections from almost all of his books, if you want to see what he's about...and since Bukowski was a very prolific author, there's plenty more out there if you get hooked.
 
 
Ender
15:55 / 31.01.04
Have you read his book of shorts TALES OF ORDINARY MADNESS?
 
 
pachinko droog
17:46 / 02.02.04
Read his childhood bio "Ham on Rye". Then you'll understand exactly where he's coming from: abusive asshole father, growing up during the Great Depression, shit jobs, graduating from high school just in time for WWII and not buying into the patriotic fervor that surrounded him, the madness of cheap rooming houses, being drunk and reveling in his proto-slack, etc.

(Slightly Off-Topic: I recall reading an interview once with Diamanda Galas who said something to the effect that people shouldn't listen to Tom Waits or pretend to be into him unless they've read some Bukowski first. Good observation!)
 
 
Doctor Singapore
23:38 / 02.02.04
I did read Tales of Ordinary Madness...but about 5 years ago, enjoyed it at the time but don't remember it as well as I would like. It's hard to find his stuff in bookstores, at least the ones in my area.
 
 
Ender
06:27 / 03.02.04
I was shocked to find so many of his rare and out of print books on HALF.COM at such cheap prices.
 
 
King of Town
02:41 / 08.02.04
I am glad to see that people still have good taste, this one goes out to all of you writers.

-SO YOU WANT TO BE A WRITER-
by Charles Bukowski

If it doesn't come bursting out of you
in spite of everything,
don't do it.
unless it comes unasked out of your
heart and your mind and your mouth
and your gut,
don't do it.
if you have to sit for hours
staring at your computer screen
or hunched over your
typewriter
searching for words,
don't do it.
if you're doing it for money or
fame
don't do it.
if you're doing it because
you want women in your bed,
don't do it.
if you have to sit there and
rewrite it again and again,
don't do it.
if it's hard work just thinking about doing it,
don't do it.
if you're trying to write like somebody
else,
forget about it.

if you have to wait for it to roar out of
you,
then wait patiently.
if it never does roar out of you,
do something else.

if you have to first read it to your wife
or your girl friend or your boyfriend
or your parents or anybody at all,
your not ready.

don't be like so many writers,
don't be like so many thousands of
people who call themselves writers,
don't be dull and boring and
pretentious, don't be consumed with self-
love the libraries of the world have
yawned themselves to
sleep
over your kind
don't add to that.
don't do it.
unless it comes out of
your soul like a rocket,
unless being still would
drive you to madness or
suicide or murder,
don't do it.
unless the sun inside you is
burning your gut,
don't do it.

when it is truly time,
and if you have been chosen,
it will do it by
itself and it will keep on doing it
until you die or it dies in
you.

there is not other way,

and there never was.
 
 
Bandini
11:10 / 29.08.07
(Not sure if it's good form or bad form to bump really old threads?)

Am a fan of Bukowski myself. I think the clearest line to him can be seen from Louis-Ferdinand Céline and John Fante. I think the association with the Beats is something that is a shame as i don't think this is a very good comparison, similar to describing Jean-Pierre Melville as part of the Fennch New Wave. It seems lazy.

In the post above his writing is described as bleak, harsh and empty.
I certainly don't think that his writing is empty. The implication is put forward that his writing only holds quality when he 'finds peace' with this harsh world.

I don't think that this is always overt in his writing but i think the despair is always underpinned by a hope.
 
 
Jack Fear
12:29 / 29.08.07
Hugely overrated, I reckon. But this is good for a giggle.
 
 
Bandini
13:47 / 29.08.07
What have you read of his?
What don't you like?
 
 
grant
13:56 / 29.08.07
I think he's one of those figures where you have to wade through the mystique and the fans to get to what worked.

"How to be a great writer" is still one of my favorite pieces of writing, because it's crude and true and beautiful, which I think is the whole Bukowski package right there. The problem is that he's sort of easy to imitate because the approach is so simple - be crude. Say something true. Juxtapose it with something that feels like it should be beautiful. Beer shits and creative exultation.
 
 
Jack Fear
16:08 / 29.08.07
"Crude," I'll grant you. "True" and "beautiful," not so much as endlessly self-serving, endlessly self-pitying, endlessly self-justifying. Conveys that monstrous egocentrism with passable skill, I suppose, and has more in the way of technical chops than is immediately apparent from the Bartleby-esque "opting out" that forms the surface of his work and is its major draw; but really, my taste for that sort of thing is pretty limited, these days. I no longer have much patience for the alleged romance of self-destruction and the purported heroism of refusing to engage.

Bukowski will never be short of admirers, and those admirers will always be overwhelmingly male, and overwhelmingly young. Bully for them. And one day, they will in vast numbers look back on the time in their lives when they were re-e-e-ally into Bukowski; and most of them, remembering those days, will just kind of smile. And again, bully for them.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
17:39 / 29.08.07
Yeah. Perhaps his main artistic creation was his sense of self-worth? Certainly, it seems as if the pages just poured out once he'd got that arranged to his satisfaction. And what satisfaction it was ... A small library of writing about the wonder he was, about the miracle of Bukowski.

I do quite like his stuff, but equally, he could have just written 'I'm great, and you're all shit' on a toilet wall and left it at that, really. And God help anyone who came into contact with him - 'Women' is pretty much four hundred pages on the subject of exactly why you ahould never even think about trying to meet your heroes. An amusing four hundred pages, granted, but it's a terrible warning, all the same.
 
 
grant
18:51 / 29.08.07
And God help anyone who came into contact with him

I've got a friend who was friends with him back when(*) and who says Bukowski simply never lost the sense of himself as a 14-year-old. I think that probably explains a lot. Always enthusiastic, self-obsessed, self-indulgent, driven.


(*)Yes, you can touch me.
 
 
Jack Fear
20:19 / 29.08.07
...Bukowski simply never lost the sense of himself as a 14-year-old. I think that probably explains a lot. Always enthusiastic, self-obsessed, self-indulgent, driven...

...and really only tolerable to other 14-year-olds.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
20:19 / 29.08.07
Perhaps a collected volume of Bukowski's greatest hits could be called 'Don't Feed The Animals'?

It works on a number of levels, all of which I suspect Bukowski would have hit me hard in the face for, had I had a go at explaining my thinking.

On the other hand, there probably wouldn't be much he could do about it now.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
20:36 / 29.08.07
...and really only tolerable to other 14-year-olds.

That's a bit harsh, don't you think?

The ideal age to read Bukowski is any age, surely, just as long as you don't take the material too seriously.

Out of genuine interest though, and not simply because I'm trying to poke the great beast with a stick, as it were, what's your take on William Burroughs?

(With apologies for 'threadrot' - it's not a concept I've ever really bought into, but still, sorry. Although not sorry enough to start a new thread, obvs.)
 
 
Jack Fear
21:36 / 29.08.07
Burroughs hadn't an atom of self-pity. He valued clarity and honesty and ruthlessness, and applied them to himself; he didn't romanticize his drug-use as the sensitive man's bulwark against a cruel and ghastly world—he just liked to get good and fucked up, and admitted it.

Burroughs was a vicious, loathsome old buzzard, but at least he had the grace to hate himself as much as he deserved. Bukowski seems to labor under the illusion that his self-annihilation is just adorable.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
21:57 / 29.08.07
Burroughs was a vicious, loathsome old buzzard, but at least he had the grace to hate himself as much as he deserved.

Rather, I'd say he spent his working life trying to atone for what happened to his wife, and then later, and in particular, his son. I think more than anything Burroughs was guilty of being careless, as opposed to anything darker (he'd have been good company for dinner in a way I'm guessing Bukowski wouldn't have been) but otherwise, and allowing for the fact that I've got quite a sunny view of the world when it suits me, I'm right with you on this.
 
 
Jack Fear
00:19 / 30.08.07
Misanthropy begins at home.
 
 
Jack Fear
13:34 / 29.11.07
And so, apparently, does virulent anti-semitism.
 
 
grant
15:41 / 29.11.07
I don't think I buy that - his former landlady says he loved Hitler. Because the house she's trying to sell for over $1m is in danger of being designated a historic relic (and thus, a lot harder to offload).

And I can't remember anything in his writings that seemed at all interested in Jewishness one way or another - he had an unlikeable boss character who was Jewish? Wow. Which one of his unlikeable boss characters was this?

His imdb bio mentions that as a German-American in the 1940s, he didn't want to go to war against Germany. And that in the 70s, he showed up drunk to a French TV interview and praised Idi Amin and Hitler. Not having seen the interview, I'm guessing that's a more general misanthropic pose there.
 
 
Blake Head
22:46 / 29.11.07
I don't remember anything either. From his writing or the biography. That's not to say it's not there, but it's certainly not a major feature of his work.
 
 
Bandini
08:35 / 30.11.07
What i've read about his supposed Nazi leanings has always made the point that he thought it was funny to wind people up and didn't really believe any of it. Think of the sycophantic faux liberal morons that must have been in his company at various times. Also why he used to play Wagner at full volume in the rooms he stayed in.
 
 
johnny enigma
14:04 / 05.12.07
Out of interest, has anyone else been able to dig up any other evidence of Bukowski's "virulent anti semitism"? The evidence given in that article linked to above seems pretty scanty to me. I agree with Grant in that Bukowski seems much more misanthropic than anti - semitic. However, if someone out there can prove me wrong, then go for it.
 
 
Fist Fun
19:32 / 10.12.07
I really like Charles Bukowski. Never read much of his poetry but I just like the stuff I have seen. It just seems good.

I like the way he talks about stuff. Work and people and sex and stuff. I suppose I think of him much more as a writer than a poet.
 
 
Bandini
12:27 / 21.01.08
Has anyone seen any of the films based on Bukowski's work?
The ones I have seen are:

Tales of Ordinary Madness
Factotum
Crazy Love

I thought I would hate them all but I was pleasantly surprised.
Although I felt Tales of Ordinary Madness was flawed Ben Gazzara was absolutely brilliant as he is in so much.
 
 
Blake Head
15:27 / 21.01.08
I've seen Factotum, which I really rather liked. I wrote a little little bit about it in a Film thread on Ask The Dust (ok, ok, more of a stub than a thread) if you can be bothered to search it out.
 
 
Tsuga
22:33 / 21.01.08
Has anyone seen any of the films based on Bukowski's work?
I liked Barfly when I saw it, but that was a long time ago. I was reading alot of Bukowski at the time, and I was surprised that there was a movie made that he'd written.
 
  

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