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Sax and Kit-Cat Club present: "The Death of Jenny Everywhere"

 
 
Sax
06:42 / 22.01.04
As I type this the board's still undergoing the Crisis of Infinite Barbeliths, but from here you should all be able to link to the Jenny Everywhere site, which is featuring the latest Shifter story, The Death of Jenny Everywhere, with gorgeous art by Kit-Cat Club and words by my good self.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
14:30 / 23.01.04
OK, you can respond to this now... please...

(this is a transparent ploy on my part to bump the thread a whole two places up and get some feedback)
 
 
lentil
16:06 / 23.01.04
Well I really enjoyed that. No disrespect to any recent stories, or indeed to "Bacterial Lunarversity", but it's refreshing to see a less frenetic Jenny once in a while. I am bowled over by Kit-Cat's art! It's such a good match for this story. The texture of the pencil shading has a comforting feeling that captures Jenny's mood at the end of the story (I'm about to go out but I feel like a nice night in after reading it!), as well as being slightly ethereal and stuff, suiting the whole dream-sequence thing to a t. It's charming in a similar way to Suedehead's drawings - kinda *mmm*

About that dream - I liked the fact that it probably only took about 10 minutes. I don't know why. Overall it reads like a cross between "Too Many Teslas" from Tom Strong a while back, and the "Wake" issues from Sandman, but obviously nowhere near as twee and wanky as the latter. There is a flirtation with tweeness in parts of TDOJE though, particularly in the last line, but for me it works. I think it might be to do with the charm of it, as mentioned above, but also a certain wit and... straightforwardness(?) that balances the whole thing out.

Other things I liked - The Pino Grigiot moment, wearing the little black dress over her jumper, "Just me and Casualty then", Boutique Anna de Logardiere, Jenny the Cat and Johnny Everywhere, the argument over how she died, the Nelson-style Jenny on the last page. Lettering generally, but particularly the title and page 3 panels 5&6.

Lovely. Thanks guys.
 
 
FinderWolf
17:50 / 23.01.04
I guess the board is working properly again (Yaaaaaay!). This one's a no-brainer - no-brainer meaning it's clearly AMAZING!! great story, great characters, great art, no way will anyone not want to resoundingly approve this one. Really nice work to both writer & artist!

I agree, this works on so many levels. But which story is "Bacterial Lunaversity"?
 
 
Nelson Evergreen
18:52 / 23.01.04
Sax, you play the mundane off against the metaphysics beautifully. This reads to me almost like a prequel to My Bloody Valentine, except this time around Jenny's just beginning to discover her other selves rather than phasing merrily between them like she did in your first strip. And the art's wonderful. Kit-Cat, I'm getting a Raymond Briggs vibe from those pencils...

All this plus good gags and an emotional prod in the ribs. Fab.
 
 
dlotemp
00:20 / 24.01.04
Nicely done. The art does compliment the tone of the story quite well so kudos. The dialogue and story have some good wit. I also loved the PG moment and jenny thoughts regarding her shopping habits and what not. They offer a nice contrast to the rest of the story as well as offer identification of the focal Jenny over the others we meet.

It's also nice to see a further exploration of the variable Jennys out there and that something underpins their whole existence. Of course, I left wanting more of Jenny, longer stories, the rest of "Damn Fine Hostile Takeover" and everything the character can offer. So cheers on a nice product.

I'd like to take this moment to segue into some thoughts regarding Jenny and her place in current culture. I was re-reading "The Ecstasy of Communication" by Jean Baudrillard recently - note: nothing like name dropping a french philosopher to make you fell smart - when I came across some passages that I felt reflected on the Jenny Everywhere concept and character. "The Ecstasy of Communication," written around 1987, is Baudrillard ruminations about the advent of the communication culture. One of his conjectures is that as sensory stimulation through information devices rise that individuals will retreat into hermetic bubbles, metaphorical naturally. Individuals will implode as a result of increased mobility and media to point where all trips have been already taken place, where immobility has ceased because it has become potential ubiquity.

In the implosion, the individual shatters, like fragments of a hologram, each piece containing the entire universe. In this sense (quoting) "one can speak of the fractal subject, which is diffracted into a multitude of idential minaturized egos, multiplying in an embryonic mode as in a biological culture, and completely saturating its enviroment through an infinite process of scissipairty [form of asexual reproduction]." This fractal subject dreams only of resembling himself in each one of his fractions, "no long dreaming of his ideal image, but of a formula to generically reproduce himself into infinity."

it struck me that this notion of a fractal subject could be applied to Jenny Everywhere, a character spawning new ego iterations of itself into infinity. It is a product, consciously or unconsciously, of a culture focused on consuming information, media, or as Baudrillard suggests, consuming games of chance and giddiness. Furthermore, it struck me as funny that the "Death of Jenny Everywhere" includes a sequence in which the character does dream of itself and its iterations. Coincidence or synchronicity?
 
 
The Falcon
00:28 / 24.01.04
I'm a bit confused by the two, apparently, Jennys as the phone rings at the end there?

Very nice, though. I've really liked every JE I've read thus far, actually.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
07:57 / 24.01.04
Bravo to the pair of you, that's a wonderful piece of work. And I agree with lentil, it's nice to see a quiet character-led story.
 
 
Tamayyurt
12:55 / 24.01.04
This story is fantastic. lentil already mentioned the, "Just me and casualty, then." line, which I loved. Also the line "Today we are a little less...everywhere." really stuck with me after I had finished reading the story. I love the art. It was somber and gorgeous. And of course, the cat!

Cheers!
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
09:31 / 26.01.04
Two Jennies? Do you mean the first time the phone rings? Because that goes over a panel divider (I thought this was a clever way of resolving a problem but perhaps it is just confusing). Either that or the problems I was having with consistency were much more major than I thought...

I'm so glad people like it!
 
 
Sax
14:07 / 26.01.04
Yes, thanks for the kind words, folks. Lentil - you might be right when you say I was flirting with tweeness... I originally didn't have that last caption but felt the rhythm of Jenny's final observations needed some last words... perhaps I should have thought about it a bit more.

I'm interested in what Moriarty might have to say, given his previously held dislike of stories featuring multiple Jennies.

Of course, we can always claim it was just a dream. Like Dallas.

Falcon - "Dream" Jenny's mobile was ringing at the same time as "Real" Jenny's phone rang back in the flat... it served to pull her out of the dream-state. I think.

And thanks to those who sent PMs about the story as well. Bring on more comments, though. I'm in the process of going through Kit-Cat's gorgeous pencils with a magnifying glass spotting all the unscripted detail she put in - the toaster on page one, Jenny twirling pasta on her fork while on the telephone, and of course, the beautiful "Boutique Anna De Logardiere". There's bags more as well - the artwork is incredibly detailed when you look at it. And I think KCC perfectly captured my vague request to have Ms Everywhere look like "an ageing Hollywood starlet".
 
 
lentil
11:11 / 27.01.04
Well, I thought I had to put in something vaguely critical. Also I seem to be the only person who thinks that so I wouldn't worry too much!

I'm interested in what Moriarty might have to say, given his previously held dislike of stories featuring multiple Jennies.

Yeah, I was wondering about that too.

""Dream" Jenny's mobile was ringing at the same time as "Real" Jenny's phone rang back in the flat... it served to pull her out of the dream-state. I think."

I read that as being like when your alarm clock goes off in real life and all of a sudden there's a fire alarm in your dream, and then you wake and find that they were one and the same.

BTW, HunterWolf, "Bacterial Lunarversity" is a Jenny story by Impulsivelad and myself, Persephone has the pages so hopefully it'll be debuting soon.
 
 
grant
13:13 / 27.01.04
I think it's very pretty, which you don't see very often in these sorts of things.
 
 
rizla mission
14:21 / 27.01.04
Yeah, the art's lovely.. a real breath of fresh air compared to the standard way comics are generally done, especially the backgrounds.. it really reminds me of something else I've read/looked at recently but can't quite put me finger on .. actually that's two huge cliches in the space of two lines so I think I'll stop now and write a better response later..
 
 
The Strobe
14:29 / 27.01.04
Very nice - the art reminds me a lot of Raymond Briggs, for some reason. Mainly The Snowman; there's more of a children's-book-illustration feel to it (which I love, being raised on Briggs, Quentin Blake, and joy of joys, Edward Ardizzone (who currently has an art exhbition of his stuff on)).

It completely throws the script I have on my table entirely out of continuity, but hey. My fault for being slow. Well done, Sax and Kit-Cat.
 
 
Tamayyurt
15:14 / 27.01.04
Paleface- don't worry, man, there is no continuity.

And I think I've placed what the art reminds me of and why I love it so much... Bryan Talbot! I think it's the shot of the older Jenny in the sunglasses and long coat flapping in the wind. Very nice.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
14:16 / 09.02.04
bumping, as i've only just caught up with this.

Generally, i think it's utterly lovely.

Very different to everything else thus far, and the drawing style really works well with the style of the narrative. Genuinely touching. yum. and yeah, a third for the 'briggs-ish' feel, which works really well. I want to get to know this Jenny, see what happens next, help her out...

Only reservation, predictably enough, is with the introduction of the trans Jenny/jonny. Think its a very interesting idea, and well worth trying/exploring, but it doesn't come across as being as well-thought-out as say, Jenny's characterisation (which is wonderfully rounded and nuanced, both in words/images), seems a bit throwaway/slapdash...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
15:02 / 09.02.04
I can't quite decide how I feel about the introduction of Johnny Everywhere. I seem to remember Sax saying something on the board about how he's included something in this strip which he felt he might get castigated for on political grounds - I assume this is it, and I'm not going to do any castigating, but I *do* think the author's own uncertainty/awkwardness might shine through (of course, I could be projecting). On the other hand I think there's a strong case to be made that the elder Ms Everywhere's rather bigotted attitude towards Johnny is entirely in character, and that making our guide to the funeral not 100% likeable in this way is a rather neat move on Sax's part. Like I said, I'm in two minds.

That's pretty much the only flaw I could find with this one though. As several people have said, this is definitely one of the best JE stories so far.

Kit-Cat Club's artistic ability = best kept secret on Barbelith? It does have an 'untrained' feel, but I'm increasingly unsure that this is a bad thing where comics art is concerned. I think it's really interesting how the 'softness' of the art, for want of a better term, acts as a kind of counter-balance to Jenny's typical smart-mouthed toughness (I don't mean that the latter is intrinsically bad - rather that it seems to be an accepted aspect of the character in all stories, so any contrast to that stands out).
 
 
FinderWolf
18:07 / 09.02.04
I'm not clear on exactly what you think is a "flaw" about Jonny Everywhere, flyboy. It seems pretty clear to me that our elderly Jenny guide is being mean and not respecting Jonny Everywhere - I don't think we, the readers, are meant to agree with her. I don't mean to be in your face, I'm just curious as to why you feel this is part of the story is a potential flaw. Do you just think the idea of a transgendered alternate universe Jenny is a bad idea in general? Or the way the elderly Jenny comments on him/her?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
20:56 / 09.02.04
Well, Hunterwolf, how about we go back to first principles? This is a story. That is, the description of a series of events that happen in a particular order for a reason.(NB - not a perfect or universal definition of a story, but we can go with it for now).

So, if Ms Everywhere is made to behave like a transphobic oul' witch, why should this be?

For example, we might (1) want to have a transgendered Jenny Everywhere, because that is quite a cool idea. However, we also want to communicate that Jenny, although she may be feline, must be at least to start off with female. So, we need to insert a bit about how Johnny Everywhere is transitioning (the fact that transitioning and preop are rather loaded terms here we can prolly leave aside –that’s part of the discussion of Ms Everywhere’s character). We use Ms Everywhere to do this.

This option does not reflect brilliantly on the writing, as it presents Ms Everywhere as hidebound and a bit naive for no particularly good reason, when she could as well have said "Oh, that's Johnny, he's an FTM".so:

2) We want to communicate that Ms Everywhere is an ambiguous figure, and not actually as nice and motherly as might be expected from her other dialogue and role - she is not able to get her head round Johnny everywhere's gender choices, and so insists on calling him "Jenny" even though he does not thus identify. Possibly her identification with a solely female character has left her unimpressed by or unable to cope with men, geno or otherwise. Her suitability, therefore, as the spiritual leader/spokesperson/psychopomp is therefore questionable - what happens, for example, if Johnny himself bites the big one?

This is possible, although it would suggest maybe that something is being set up for another story.

Or, if this were written by Dave Sim

3) The writer does not like seeing pre-operative FTM transexuals described as "he", seeing it as a mockery of good sense, and decides to crowbar this dislike into his work in the voice of one of his characters.

This seems unlikely, because Sax is far too able and sensible. So, I think that there is a perfectly reasonable case to present for questioning this characterisation. So, Hunterwolf, I think it is worth, if you believe, perfectly reasonably, that it seems pretty clear…that our elderly Jenny guide is being mean and not respecting Jonny Everywhere, thinking about why the scene occurs and how the scene occurs might be useful, rather than just accepting that at this point the independent being that is Ms Everywhere revealed a transphobic or trad streak that had always existed in her character.

On other areas – I *love* Kit-Cat’s artwork. I am with Flyboy – the “untrained” look works for me, as it demonstrates that what is happening here is something other than a standard tale of derring-do. Also, amusingly, the “untrained” artist shows a good grasp of how bodies work – the hand and forearm in the second panel may be a bit strange, but look at the way the torso works. The art signifies, I think from the start, that this is not a physical, action-hero Jenny – it’s very good at normality and calm, and little additions like the pasta help this very much. Also love the little gags and refs – the appearance, for example, of what I suspect is a chalet school girl in the background of page 4.

Script – I liked it, with a couple of reservations. The tricky part is to express that I liked it when these reservations seem to cover every written element of every page. It’s not like that, really…

The Johnny Everywhere bit I found grating – as if the narrative wanted me to solve a jigsaw without giving me the pieces. Why is Ms Everywhere being “mean and disrespectful”, especially at a funeral? What is the *point* of the exchange. I did like introduction of the other Everywheres, although I couldn’t forget the same scene from Sam Slade: Robo-Hunter. I like the idea that blond could here be as antithetical as black, feline or A BOY, DAMNIT.

Annyway. I’m afraid I’m of the party that was not mad keen on the end-line. In fact, I’m not sure I see what the narrative adds, in particular, to the narrative (see below for a flip-flop on this one). We discover that Jenny has not realised what she is during the action, and her feelings of difference are not really expressed in the section where she is telling us that she is different, if you see what I mean.

On a wider level, I’m seeing this “I was always a bit different” as unnecessary because she is being so resolutely *un*-different. This is a bit of a tickly thing to express, because it could, perhaps entirely reasonably, be seen as “*my* Jenny doesn’t”, but the Jenny here seems aggressively normal – a single girl who drinks chilled white wine on her own, buys little black dresses more in hope than expectation and complains about the rarity of sex. This may be a structure to provide antithesis to the strangeness of the funeral, but it feels a bit modular. Perhaps Jenny is trying hard to be a rote-learned girl *because* she feels alienated, but again it’s a bit that jars slightly for me. I’d like to see her less distanced from emotion, less flip, so we can have more faith in her emotions later.

Oh dear. Good things, good things (and I *did* like this, honest). The characterisation of Ms Everywhere, apart from the bit already discussed – nicely Jean Brodieish and den mothery, and adds to the sense of the Jennys as a sort of vast girls’ school (Kit-Cat – who *are* the two Jennys in the middle of the centre panel on page 5 (one of the triplets?). I really like the way that nobody knows how she died, and the confused discussion – really caught the idea that there are all sorts of Jenny Everywhere stories going on all the time. I can’t quite see if the coffin has “JE” or “26” written on it, but I’m hoping for the latter – having Jennys numbered for identification is a v. nice idea.And the general sense is very well captured, which is art and script – of a ritual that is deeply confusing.

Ooh – and I’ve thought of a reason why the internal narrative at the end *does* do useful work – because the funeral has had an unexpected effect on Jenny. Rather than being sad about another Jenny dying, her main feeling is one of relief that she as a person makes sense, and that she is not alone – she’s *smiling* at the end. That’s nice – it’s a pleasant irony that the first time she becomes aware of the details of her otherness, it is a cheering thing wrapped in dark paper.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
10:13 / 10.02.04
("Haus in lengthy critique"shocker!!! interesting points...)

just to be clear, my comment's in no way meant as castigation, it just reads like both of you 'feel'/'inhabit' the rest of this comic, which gives it an emotional depth quite different to the other JE stuff I've read...

Maybe I'm guessing/wrongly/projecting, but it feels like you 'know'/are the Jennys, especially the central one (love the LBD/Pinot Grigio/dumped by friends for boyfriends stuff, really evocative) They're people, whereas Jonny...is rather stilted and one-dimensional, a type. Unsure, maybe? Nervous of being castigated?

It feels like 'hey this would be cool. er, what do we do with hir/him now...'
 
 
sleazenation
13:48 / 10.02.04
as an aside - i figured the rumours of how jenny died were an allusion to the possible deaths various jenny's might have undergone in the existing strips... ie the jenny in a plane crash from the late shift and the jenny in jewelry heist from my bloody valentine...
 
 
Sax
08:25 / 11.02.04
This issue... Jenny Everywhere Dies!"
Not a dream! Not a hoax! Not an imaginary tale!

Gosh, you take two days off to spew your ring like an irradiated dog and all this most welcome critiquing takes place. Makes me wish I'd put as much thought into writing the damn thing as others evidently have into reading it.

Okay... I'm generally of the opinion that "writers" should generally stay out of discussions of their work, because it makes for more interesting debate. But I suppose some kind of explanation is necessary here, certainly regarding Johnny Everywhere.

When I first penned the script and sent it off to Kit Cat Club, I asked her what she thought. She raised concerns about the Johnny Everywhere segment, but said in her reading it was Ms Everywhere's views coming to the fore.

This is pretty much as I intended it. Now, while my cloistered Northern existence has unfortunately not afforded me much first-hand exposure to much in the way of transgender issues, the writing of those couple of panels wasn't intended to convey the writer's deep-seated fear or hatred of such. Or maybe it was - who knows what goes on in my soapy little id?

Ms Everywhere was, in my mind, intended to be a bit brusque, combined with moments of gentleness - witness her "come along, you'll be late!" tempered with "oh, you don't really know [what you are] yet, do you?"

Her reaction to Johnny Everywhere was kind of meant to be an illustration of the fact that she's "a woman of her generation" - Ms Everywhere is what - late 60s? Early 70s? She might accept that Johnny is an F-to-M Everywhere, but perhaps until all the downstairs stuff is sorted out by a surgeon, in her book he'll be a Jenny, Goddamit, until he's got the meat and two veg to prove it. Maybe my granny wouldn't think like that at all, but I suspect she would.

The whole short episode was merely to introduce *our* Jenny to this wild and wonderful world she had found herself plunged into. We're not meant to *like* Ms Everywhere particularly, nor are we meant to *dislikee* her. That's up to us. I like Haus's description of her as Jean Brodie-ish - that's spot on. She isn't meant to be particularly bigoted, just a little... set in her ways, maybe?

Of course, hindsight is a wonderful thing. Perhaps the segment needed more thought... perhaps there's no need for it at all. Perhaps it's actually quite offensive... Our Jenny lumps Cat Jenny and Johnny in the same "I don't believe it" category. Ms Everywhere seems quite at ease with Cat Jenny but not too happy with Johnny, putting transgender Everywheres somewhere down the pecking order from talking cats. Hmmm.

Maybe someone would like to do a Johnny Everywhere story. Maybe I should to set the record straight.

All in all, I stand by it - I have to, I suppose. I think Ms Everywhere's reaction to Johnny is in keeping with how I envisage her character - if there are any failings, it's maybe how I presented Ms Everywhere. Perhaps a longer story would have been better.

On other matters... If you recall somewhere during the funeral scene Ms Everywhere says "we won't remember this when we wake up...". The whole story is meant to be Our Jenny looking back over time to when she first became *awakened* or *illuminated* to what she was... at the end of the story, she still doesn't know, she doesn't remember the dream, I think, but she has reconciled something within her. As Haus said, Jenny drinks wine, buys little black dresses, etc etc, but knows she is different... or at least, *we* know she's different because she's Jenny Everywhere, even if she doesn't, which is why there's no further explanation of this. By the end she's kind of resolved this duality, even if she doesn't know why.

Thanks for all the words and the crits, folks. Oh, and Sleaze, glad you picked up on the plane crash/diamond heist stuff etc.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:21 / 11.02.04
Hmmm.. I think we're getting tell here, rather than show. I don't think we are shown that Jenny feels different as she is telling us that she felt different (which the reader can then interpret as Jenny overcompensating, maybe, or a reflection that *everybody* feels different), and I don't think, likewise, that we are shown enough to make the Johnny Everywhere moment less than awkward. For me it's a bit of a "WTF?" moment - the narrative doesn't demand it, and when it does appear it doesn't get enough development to make it stop jarring and add to the narrative, IMHO. Still, it's only two frames...but I have a feeling it could better have been one frame or, say, three frames.
 
 
Sax
12:46 / 11.02.04
It's a fair point. If I need to later take 600 words to explain two panels, then the writing evidently hasn't done its job. I really do appreciate such criticism, though, because otherwise I won't improve.

God, I'm just glad I didn't go with the first draft in which Johnny Everywhere was in fact Jordan Everywhere with 34FF breasts and a thong. That could have been really embarrassing, in retrospect.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:40 / 11.02.04
Glad to know I got what you intended, Sax. I don't think it's 'more tell than show.' I actually thought the whole 'set in her ways/woman of her generation' thing was pretty clear, and I didn't find it offensive or feel it needed further elaboration/clarification.

Again, nice work!
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:37 / 11.02.04
Yes, Hunterwolf, but for those of us who lack this instinctive understanding of the character, it causes problems, because this character does not exist outside the text. We cannot refer to what she said last week, nor can we phone her up and ask her. I'm happy that you're happy with the character, but that doesn't intrinsically resolve the question of transphobia in the psychompompic character.

Assuming, as I think *we* (because we know that Sax is a lovely, and not likely to pull this kind of thing) can, that this is not a Dave Sim moment, I maintain that at one frame or three frames the Johnny Everywhere episode could work, but at two frames it clunks up the whole narrative while those less intuitively connected with the story behind the story have to try to work out what is going on.
 
  
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