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The Voice of the Fire

 
  

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Tamayyurt
15:38 / 14.01.04
Ok, so it's Alan Moore writing a propper novel... Have any of you read it? What'd you think? I just ordered mine and it should get here in a couple of weeks so I don't have anything important to add but I did want to hear some of your thoughts on the book before it got here.

More from me when I've read it.
 
 
adamswish
16:18 / 14.01.04
Got it a few years ago but couldn't get past the first chapter for one main reason.

Don't know how much you know about the structure of the book Imp so won't say too much right now. Just warn you that the first chapter is very, very heavy going.
 
 
FinderWolf
17:27 / 14.01.04
I bought it but haven't started reading it yet - my impression going in was that it would be very very dense and occasionaly tough, but overall well worth it in terms of the themes, ideas, and literary cool things/images he'll use and come up with.
 
 
captain piss
20:22 / 14.01.04
I abandoned reading the first chapter after a couple of pages as it was so hard-going (written in a made-up neolithic language of Moore's I think), but found the rest of it very readable and compelling. Dark and macabre, involving, ...stuff.
But then I've spoken to someone else who reckons the first chapter is a piece of unsurpassed genius if you can get into it - certainly whistled past me
 
 
rizla mission
20:25 / 14.01.04
I thought Voices of the Fire was a truly excellent book when I read it a while ago.

The first chapter is likely to inspire "fuck this!" reactions, in that it's written in pre-bronze age english with a vocabulary of thirty words or something like that, but once you get past that, well, it's plain sailing really - I think it takes a far wider and more interesting view of psychogeography than the other writers who do that sort of thing, exploring how various obscure events and forces shape the development of the town of Northampton over the past 5000 years or so.. it's about the only historical fiction I've ever read where the historical settings really feel convincing and naturalistic.. and of course there's angels and witches and talking severed heads and Templar conspiracy theories and all the malarky you'd expect from a book written by Moore, but by and large it's done with a greater degree of subtlety than you'd expect. If it wasn't for the infuriating first chapter which probably put a lot of people off, I think it could have gained a lot more support outside of Moore's comics reader fan base - I definitely think it deserves it.
 
 
ghadis
21:32 / 14.01.04
I think it's a great book. True the first chapter can be slightly daunting but if you persevere the language comes easily. If people can manage 'Clockwork Orange', Russell Hobans' 'Riddley Walker' even Irvine Welsh they can get through it. Your brain adjusts to it after a while. It's certainly not unreadable. Try Finnegans bloody Wake. At the end of that first chapter i found that i really wanted it tocarry on in that style and to learn more about Hob. The rest of the book is good stuff though all linked together with fire, dogs and severed heads. Three of my favourite things. Whats there not to like? Hopefully he'll get another novel out at some point. Wasn't there one in the pipline called 'The Grammer' or something.
 
 
Tamayyurt
22:15 / 14.01.04
Sounds good and now I really glad I posted this cause I didn't know about the first chapter so I might've gotten turned off... now I'm more likely to stick with it. I also ordered Snakes and Ladders, Feb. is going to be a Moore Month (that and Promethea #29 is out).

Does anyone have a pic of the cover?
 
 
casemaker
01:26 / 15.01.04
I just bought it this week and started Chapter one. It is a bit daunting at first, but I'm finding the language and the character very compelling as I tread through. I like the idea that out of this ultimate low-brow mind begins the context of a (hopefully) profound story. "I may see not what he is do, but that he make gleaning bove he's head."

My only problem is that I can't get that Alan Moore, molasses sounding voice out of my head while I'm reading. There is a certain cadence to the first chapter that lends to the style I've heard him use with The Birth Caul spoken word or even his live interviews.
 
 
illmatic
10:49 / 15.01.04
I loved "Voice of the Fire". Marvellous, Marvellous book. The first time, I gave up, due to the first chapter, but on another attempt, found it really easily (first chapter, I mean). Maybe I was feeling particulary "primitive" that day, perhpaps I'd been out with Ghadis the night before. I particulary loved the way in which elements of humanities intellectual furniture are gradually introduced as we evolve. I thought the second chapter was really amazing as well.

SPOILER









What I meant by intellectual furniture is the way in which Hob is amazed when he discovers someone has the ability to lie through language in the first chapter and the idea has NEVER occured to him, due to his primitive stage of development. He's as stunned as if someone had pulled up on a steam train. The same kind of thing occurs in the next chapter with the Shaman with the maps all over him. A kind of sub-theme of these early chapters might be the a history of symbolic communication.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
15:02 / 15.01.04
Yes - a brilliant book - fully of incredible ideas and imagery - usual moore excellence - first story is amazing - don't pe put off - the aboriginal togue as mentioned above, start to make sense fairly early on. I was stunned by that first tale. Totally stunned.

But the one which made me greet ma eyes oot was the tale about the native briton whose entire family and fellow villagers mysteriously vanish when he's out somewhere and well, he goes mad and ends up dressing as a giant bird and hanging about in ponds talking to foul.

madness.
 
 
rizla mission
19:42 / 15.01.04
Yeah, that was my favourite story too actually. That and the one from the point of view of the Roman diplomat, or the one about the Templar building his church and.. actually I guess I'd better stop there for fear of spoilers..
 
 
■
09:32 / 16.01.04
Yep, it's superb (and being reissued). The first time I tried to read it, I got the "fuck this" feeling, too, but if you push past it, it does become and excellenty little treatise on the connections between mythology and local history.
You can always go back and read the first chapter later.
 
 
_Boboss
09:56 / 16.01.04
hark at all the fucking moaning! how old are you? just read the first chapter!
 
 
Sax
10:57 / 16.01.04
I thought the first chapter was great! Especially when he...




MUCKY SPOILER ALERT




...shagged his mum's dead body! Har!
 
 
■
17:26 / 16.01.04
No, he was just shanking of she so that she breath come back with warm. Big difference! No, hang on....
 
 
macrophage
18:06 / 16.01.04
Thought it was good for a local Northampton perspective on all things psychogeographically.
 
 
ghadis
19:21 / 16.01.04
I thought it was good for an anywhere perspective on all things psychogeographically.
 
 
■
15:31 / 17.01.04
I just think psychogeographically is a great word.
 
 
thewalker
07:28 / 16.08.05
DO persevere through the first chapter, many concepts that are to be re-covered through the rest of the book are there.

and shitgodamn what a book it is too.
 
 
Mark Parsons
21:46 / 30.08.05
Apparently he's working on the next novel RIGHT NOW. All set in Northampton again, I think. This does not appear to the A GRAMMAR, which was to track a road/trainroute/leyline.

Much as I love AM's comix, I think I'm more fond of.in awe of his performance cds and the novel.
 
 
macrophage
17:51 / 31.08.05
A good book to read especially if you either come form Northampton or have lived there or around there around the outskirts, I am thinking of Little Scotland you know Corby, great place if you were a Scottish Ex Pat like my self.

It's a great book none the less, essential reading to comprehend the Alan Moore Geist. Bite sized digest of an alternative history or dare we say it the dark and mysterious underbelly of Northampton. All towns and cities and village deserve to have scribe's to spirit-catch the History back from the Conservatives and the Fuddy Duddies.

All I remember from visiting Northampton was the Carlsberg Factory, I expect it was the car journey. Excellent Record Shops, esp if you are into Dance Music.

Has a "history" of violence some say but exactly the same as everywhere else.

That part of the country is tainted by alot of the Civil War shite, it has a very potent history let's face it.

All in all, a bloody good book. Now what the hell happened to "Big Numbers" as that was so frustrating. I remember the Mars bar wrapper and that was it in the comic, with a serial number, a relic of digatilised consumnerism. It started to make me wonder about about quantum and chaos science.
 
 
_Boboss
14:07 / 19.09.05
so anyone see iain sinclair in the independent yesterday? big ole thing on his newie, Orisen Rising or something like that:

So what's the score Iain?

Well Mumbitch, it's nigh a decade on and still no-one's got past the first chapter of alan's book, so I've jumped ahead to like the third from last one and have cribbed the plot and action of it thin as i can for the subject of my whole new book! clever me eh? tom clare walks to the asylum! whoder thought o' that?
 
 
Alex's Grandma
13:06 / 20.09.05
Missed the article, too busy reading about Pete and Kate I'm afraid, but if Iain Sinclair really has ripped off a chunk of Voice Of The Fire for his new novel, isn't he arguably within his rights? Let's face it, From Hell in particular owed his work a certain (and if memory serves, acknowledged) debt...
 
 
_Boboss
13:45 / 20.09.05
well course it was done with many 'may I?''s and 'of course you can dear's, them being worldbeating superfriends, sjust interesting that a leading broadsheet fave, and in my view one of the few really interesting british authors out there, should consider voice of the fire dense enough to spin his new project from. remember reading a 'what i've been reading' bit in the papes by iaiiaiaian banks not long ago, where he mentioned voice of the fire and then seemed to deliberately not say much moore about it, zif he was a bit like 'my next novel's a be the same, so i'm telling you shit'. i ain't complaining, just noting what a seminal ur-text this unreadable bitch of a book could become one day. (i'm knicking right off it for my novel, tellinyer).
 
 
GogMickGog
15:28 / 30.04.06
*Bump*

My word, I do love this book, even if the pictures in the illustrated edition are rather naff. The chapter narrated by the severed head comes fairly high in my estimations, as does the tragic one about the mad fisherman.

Fo' the record, Iain utterly acknowledges the debt 'Orison' owes to Mr. Moore by actually meeting him along the way, stopping for a chat and mumbling jealously about a pristine copy of "house at the borderlands" he spots on Alan's mantelpiece.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:39 / 30.04.06
whoder thought o' that?

I dunno... history, maybe?
 
 
Hydra vs Leviathan
17:03 / 06.05.06
I liked this a lot, but my one criticism of it would be that it didn't tie the disparate stories together in the way that i thought/hoped it would... not sure if it should really be classified as a "novel" or a collection of short stories really... a few things (such as the "shagfoals") were sort-of returned to, but i felt there could have been (tho i dunno exactly how) some sort of recurrent or cyclical theme in a way that it felt like there wasn't... Moore shows he definitely has an excellent writing style and not just for comics tho...

The first chapter did twist my head a little bit with the working-out of stuff, but i didn't find it annoying, in fact it was the captivating-ness of the language that drew me into the book in the fist place (i loved some of the phrases... "fly-not birds", "gleaning bove he's head", and the caseless grammar)... oddly, i actually felt that it was the last chapter (the one set in Moore's "now") that was the only one that didn't ring true... perhaps it was the lack of distance, perhaps the unnecessary intervention of the author himself, but it seemed like the evocative had been replaced by the merely cynical and purplish (kind of like Guardian-weekend-column half-piss-takey) prose...

The one that moved me the most was the one about John Clare (someone who i've been interested in for a while)... it inspired me to get a collected edition of Clare's poems out of the library, but unfortunately i never got round to reading them because of the strange relationship to reading poetry my mind has (i'm not quite sure when or how to read books of poetry because they're not "linear" like prose fiction)... also made me vaguely plan to walk to Northampton (which is where i was born as well as where my ex lives, so it's also a sort-of-personal-pilgrimage thing for me) last summer as a sort of Clare homage/tribute, but that plan didn't happen either... it might this summer tho...

(pointers to any John Clare discussion on here appreciated...)
 
 
Rigettle
13:53 / 12.05.06
Hi

I enjoyed The Voice of the Fire very much & echo Mick's point about Iain Sinclair's book. The fact that the piece in question is also about Sinclair visiting Moore & doing a reading in a church in Northampton in the '80s should also be mentioned.

There's an Iain Sinclair thread here - I just added a post which gives brief mention to Sinclair's book Edge of the Orison & John Clare.

BTW when I read Voice the image of the fisherman camouflaged in leaves as he stalks the fens on stilts really rang a bell. Has anyone any idea where Moore got the idea? Could a man really use stilts to walk through water & mud?

Cheers

Rig
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
16:42 / 12.05.06
No idea, but that's the image that's always stuck with me from the book. I found that story utterly heartbreaking, and somehow the pathos of the guy dressed as a heron kind of fixed it in my head. I may have actually cried, to be honest, but I'm a wuss.
 
 
Rigettle
11:28 / 15.05.06
Bless!
It was a pretty dark, tragic kind of book.

Chrs

Rig
 
 
Digital Hermes
17:11 / 19.05.06
Wow.

I won a signed copy in a contest that didn't indicate itself when it arrived, so I wasn't exactly sure who gave it to me...

Being an insatiable Moore nut, I actually held off reading this for a year, partially because I wanted to have the open period in my life I could devote to it, and partially because if I read it, it would be over, and I wouldn't have a new Moore novel to read.

Anyway, I ate this book up. The first chapter becomes amazing, once you learn the flow of the boy's language. And what happens in that first chapter resonates across the rest of the book, so if you're going to skip it, try coming back to it after you've read everything else.

As for the notion of it being short stories rather than a novel, I considered the location to be the 'main character' and each chapter to be 'character development.'

I'd probably gush even more, but I'm at work.
 
 
FinderWolf
22:02 / 04.01.07
Just read this, and now I want to research big black spirit dogs/shagfoals.

And I want to visit Northampton in my lifetime. Not to stalk Mr. Moore, I don't have to meet him at all, just to soak up the feel of the town now that I've read about it and its history to a large extent.
 
 
FinderWolf
00:45 / 05.01.07
>> Apparently he's working on the next novel RIGHT NOW. All set in Northampton again, I think.

Moore's next novel is called JERUSALEM. That's all I know about it - it's not complete yet, from what I've read. Either that or it's in 'written but no publisher attached' limbo.
 
 
Chew On Fat
11:23 / 31.01.07
BTW when I read Voice the image of the fisherman camouflaged in leaves as he stalks the fens on stilts really rang a bell. Has anyone any idea where Moore got the idea? Could a man really use stilts to walk through water & mud?

No idea, but that's the image that's always stuck with me from the book. I found that story utterly heartbreaking, and somehow the pathos of the guy dressed as a heron kind of fixed it in my head. I may have actually cried, to be honest, but I'm a wuss.

I haven't read the book yet, but will prob get around to it some day, especially after reading this thread just now.

Anyway regarding the chap who goes mad and comes over like a bird, I would imagine that he is inspired by a character from Irish Literature/folklore called 'Mad Sweeney'. He was a King who was cursed by a holy man after Sweeney lost his temper with him and threw his bell into a marsh. "The saint bell of the sainty saints" - which Moore nods to from your description.

His curse took the form of his believing that he was a bird and taking to sitting up in the trees eating only mosses and lichens.

He has appeared in one form or another (sometimes as a pathetic wretch who believes he is a bird and sometimes as an equally pathetic half-bird half-human creature) in a lot of texts.

I first came across him in Flann O'Brien's 'At Swim-two-birds' - a work with a lot of parrellels in GMs writing especially Animal Man. I highly reccomend "At Swim-Two-Birds" to any of you that enjoy a bit of 'play' in your (meta)texts. Also a seriously funny book.

He's also appeared in whole sequences of poems in the works of T.S Eliot and Seamus Heaney and also in Neil Gaiman's American Gods.

At first he doesn't seem a likely character to have drawn the attention of so many top-flight writers (including Alan it would seem), but then you realise that Sweeney's only consolation in the wet branches is composing 'melodious verses' as Flann O'Brien put it.

He's a poet who has had everything taken away from him. His only solace is in the rhymes and sounds of his craft, and in recreating in Art his past comforts and friendships. Sweeney is THE embodiment of a writers lot in many ways!

Sweeney has a lot in common with the Children of Lir, who also were turned into birds (albeit beautiful swans at least!) and condemned to a lifetime of exile, isolation and self-pity. It was only recently that I realized that their actual storylines were secondary to the fact that these stories could be used by a writer to 'hang' many poems and songs on, about exile, the beauty of nature and the tragedy of loss.

The original text was called in Irish - 'Buile Shuibhne' and there is a little about him here

A long ramble, but I thought I'd throw it in as poor Sweeney seems to be very little known despite being such an "Artists' Artist"
 
 
thewalker
09:17 / 08.02.07
WOW, THANKS FOR THE INSIGHT chewwy
 
  

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