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Charging Voodoo Sigils?

13:46 / 11.02.02

What would happen if I charged one of these loa sigils?

[ 15-02-2002: Message edited by: Lionheart ]

13:47 / 11.02.02

A fuck it didn't come out. grrr.

13:49 / 11.02.02

The only way to find out is to do it, eh?

Unfortunately I can't see the particular veve you want to charge, so I can't tell you much more than that...It may help to give an offering to the paricular deity the veve is traditionally consecrated to, though.

14:13 / 11.02.02

Well I was thinking of charging the heart shaped veve of Ezili (or Erzulie for Valentine's Day. Just for that added divine goodness.

14:17 / 11.02.02

Oh and I'm going on the assumption that Ezili is just another name for Oshun so offerings of yellow flowers and honey will be, um, offered. I guess another question would be is it ok to proceed like these ladies are the same entity or not?

14:35 / 11.02.02

In my experience the Orishas and the Loas aren't exactly the same and it can be a bit misleading to treat them as such.

The easiest example is in Ellegua vs. Papa Legba. While they both deal with similar energies and spheres of influence Ellegua is the playful child while Papa Legba is the mischeivous elder. Treating Legba as a child or Ellegua as an older man may cause problems depending on the situation. Or it just may give them a good laugh.

For Erzulie, I've read accounts of her being very jealous with her mortal 'lovers'. Supposedly going as far as to try and estrange them from their female partners.

That's hearsay and 'book learnin' though. Maybe some other 'lithers have some personal experience with Erzulie to share. Either way, charging Erzulie's sigil through a respectful offering of favorite foods, etc. will probably yield better results than the 'wank' method. Especially with her alleged jealousy.

You wouldn't want to give her the wrong impression.

14:42 / 11.02.02

Basicly, Erzule is Voodoo, Oshun is Santo, but they are recognized as the same as the Yoruban goddess of love. Be that as it may, the methods of Santo and Voodoo can be quite divergent, and usually don't get along at all.

If you're using a veve, you should use the Voodoo name Erzule, ideally. Though giving offerings in a Santo manner with it would be fine. As a general rule from my experience with it all, Voodoo can make use of Santo styles if its fitting, but Santo doesn't like to use Voodoo, being a more orthodox system. Voodoo is much more friendly to the chaos magicians approach to things

Additionally, recently the Voodoo and Santo traditions have been speaking with each other and cooperating more than ever in history. So, it seems that crossing traditions like this would be fine by the Gods in question, as they seem to be encouraging it right now.

14:46 / 11.02.02

Oh yea, and as Lothor mentioned, you probably don't want to wank it

No need for that, just draw it out in a ritual manner, set your offerings, and blow rum to charge. If you want to do it gnosticly, drum and dance methods are ideal, though don't be suprised if after you charge it you run around possessed for awhile

14:59 / 11.02.02

If I recall, there are different variations of the Ezili – Freda, Danto and (ouch! the mermaid one...) with very different powers and requirements. Check your veve to make sure, I think Freda's the one you want to use.

Freda has very materialistic aspects though; She likes – and expects – expensive stuff (perfume, jewelry, etc.). Something to think about if your cash-flow is more like a trickle these days.

16:23 / 11.02.02

quote:Originally posted by impulsivelad:
Well I was thinking of charging the heart shaped veve of Ezili (or Erzulie for Valentine's Day. Just for that added divine goodness.

Check out a listing here of various Vodou Lwa, so you'll get a bit of an idea about Erzulie (and other Lwa) in advance:
http://home.snafu.de/marcus/voodoo.html

I think you sould really pay attention to some points that people have already raised.

Erzulie is notorious for being a jealous Lwa, and wants her men all for herself. She supposedly doesn't work well with women, but I've actually worked with her in quite a serious working, and She was great.

Also, there is the Erzulie of the Rada group (Erzulie Freda Dahomey) and of the Petro group (Erzulie La Flambeau). The Petro group tend to be hotter and peppery, I guess a bit more primal. Invoke Erzulie La Flambeau with caution.

I suppose if your intent is right then you'll do OK - so make sure you have a very specific intent, and hold your focus. Be respectful, and give decent offerings. I'd recommend charging the veve by dancing or drumming which is very much part of their culture.

I should also say that in traditional Vodou ceremonies Legba is always called first, as he opens the path of communication between us and the Lwa. Theoretically nothing can happen unless He is pleased by your call.

16:37 / 11.02.02

quote:Originally posted by Wyrd:

I should also say that in traditional Vodou ceremonies Legba is always called first, as he opens the path of communication between us and the Lwa. Theoretically nothing can happen unless He is pleased by your call.

Damn straight. If he don't open the gate, you can't have your audience with Erzulie.

16:45 / 11.02.02

Heh. You'll note that working with this lot is not like most escoteric invocation. Its more like prayer or spirit channeling. They're very alive, and they'll make sure you know it. You're best to just deal with them as people with personalities and try to appease their little quirks as best as you can, cause they'll be dealing with you that way anyway.

17:19 / 11.02.02

Thanks for the link, O Wondrous Wyrd!

I'm stil trying to remember the mermaid Ezili, and I didn't see her there...it's gonna bug me all day until I get home

It's not La Sirené, is it?

17:23 / 11.02.02

That sounds familiar but without my reference books I can't remember either.

Damn it! Now you've got me wondering too.

17:24 / 11.02.02

quote:Originally posted by Ierne:
It's not La Sirené, is it?

Yes it is. I don't think that she and Erzulie are the same though, and are considered quite separate Lwa. Glad to be of service.

18:41 / 11.02.02

quote: a respectful offering of favorite foods, etc. will probably yield better results than the 'wank' method. Especially with her alleged jealousy.
You wouldn't want to give her the wrong impression.

Got it. Thanks for clearing up the whole Oshun/Erzulie mix up. All in all, I think I'm going to work with Oshun. I've worked with her before and Erzulie seems like a bit too much trouble.

Any info. on Oshun I'd need to know?

20:33 / 11.02.02

quote:Originally posted by impulsivelad:
Got it. Thanks for clearing up the whole Oshun/Erzulie mix up. All in all, I think I'm going to work with Oshun. I've worked with her before and Erzulie seems like a bit too much trouble.

Any info. on Oshun I'd need to know?

This might come out a bit caustic, but I'm kind of restraining myself.

Why did you consider working with Erzulie in the first place? On a whim, or just to do something different? Now that you find that working with Her is too much you go back to Oshun. You claim to have worked with Oshun, yet ask us for information?

The Orisha and the Lwa are not to be fooled with. As I write this I can feel a strong annoyance on Their part, and am finding it quite difficult to not say some rather angry things on Their behalf.

Though perhaps I'm just kidding myself and this has struck a raw nerve in me.

For more information on the Orisha, check out this link:
http://www.seanet.com/~efunmoyiwa/ocha.html

While Oshun is beautiful and graceful, believe me She can show you a fierce face that will make you wish that Erzulie had arrived in Her place.

00:05 / 12.02.02

I was going to work with Oshun to begin with cause I've prayed and brought offering to her before. I came across the sigil/veve of Erzulie and wondered if charging would make my working stronger. BUT I'm not as foolish as you thought I was SO I asked here first. You guys let me know that wasn't a good idea and I'm like fine, I'll stick to the original plan. Since I don't proclaim to be un Santero I asked for further information on Oshun. Anything really, from book and web learnin' to anecdotes, never can have too much info. So, thanks for the link.

Sorry, If I came across as a complete fuckard messing with things both arcane and powerful and pissed you off. That said, I'm sure the Orishas are fine with my asking about getting to know them better.

11:53 / 12.02.02

Sorry, If I came across as a complete fuckard messing with things both arcane and powerful and pissed you off. – impulsivelad

Nah...just impulsive, lad!

(couldn't resist...heh!)

12:05 / 12.02.02

I really wanted to work with voodoo but then I talked to someone that knows his stuff (like really knows it) - he told me that its deeply deeply disrespectful to "mess" about with voodoo - kinda put me off, I think I'll leave it alone

13:37 / 12.02.02

quote:Nah...just impulsive, lad!

Impulsive yes, but I've learned a lot here. And I know better (see other thread about love spell) to ask and do a bit of research before screwing with my and other peoples (or entities) lives.

PS. I know you lot are just looking out for me tho'

[ 12-02-2002: Message edited by: impulsivelad ]

13:58 / 12.02.02

We love ya. You get to be all impulsive for us.

Seriously though, when you do your ritual, make sure that you state up front your feelings of respect for Oshun.

Strong, beautiful, distinguished ladies like Oshun and Erzulie don't necessarily like to be thought of as #1 or #2 on someone's list.

Let her know that any disrespect was unintentional and the result of male ignorance and stupidity and that your desire to seek her aid was because you love your girlfriend very much and wanted big powerful magic to aid in making this Valentine's day very special. That you've made some mistakes in the past (previous magical stuff) and you really just want to do things right. Or whatever your feelings are. Earnest and true expression of your feelings will be best. A humble, honest, sweetheart of a guy who is doing his best is very cool. A eager magician that inadvertantly may have rubbed an Orisha the wrong way isn't as cool.

Whatever happens though, have a great Valentines Day.

15:52 / 12.02.02

And a great Mardi Gras too.

19:26 / 12.02.02

As a note, I'm pretty sure there's a road of Yemaya who is commonly depicted as a mermaid. Oshun's in the clear rivers; Yemaya is in the big bad oceans.

Here she is.

It's also important to note that a veve ain't a sigil. A sigil is like a directive or a memo, a veve is more like a flag or a welcome mat. (this is mostly book learnin', but I think it's fairly accurate.)

11:06 / 15.02.02

Just cause you guys helped the process, my Valentine's Day went beautifully. Thanks for your help.

14:59 / 16.02.02

And of course now that I don't need it the pic works. Another sign that you guys were right and the loa didn't want me wanking to them. Odd, I thought everyone found sperm flattering.

cidermonk

23:15 / 16.02.02

The warnings here about "messing around" with vodun are correct in my experience ,I have proceeded improperly nd had blood drawn from me.

03:26 / 18.02.02

yep

16:20 / 18.02.02

(could someone please delete this?)

[ 18-02-2002: Message edited by: grant ]