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Religion and OCD

22:12 / 13.01.04

In history class the other day, discussing the catholics and how they, during confession, could repeat(for example)ave maria seven times, thus gaining "forgiveness for their sins", I came to think of a possible connection between the foundations of religion and OCD. Because of the fact(not really) that people with this sickness seeks a way to control their surroundings(personal experience), through "rituals" of different kinds..can`t you find the same in religion, especially the whole confession thingy?

Isn`t this what religion is trying to do, control their sorrundings, get a grip? Is christianity a big compulsive disorder?

thoughts?

(excuse the rambling and confusing nature of this post, a little high thats all..)

08:32 / 14.01.04

Most of the stuff I reckon that's in the christian mythos is appropiated from either older cthonick sources and mebbe products of gnosis induced by fastings, entheogens, dream states, etc.... Catholicism has a more ceremonial taint to other brands of christanity. I get the geist of the OCD connection though. Some people do confession in their cubicles whilst others may go to therapy classes to shout out their angts and their own short-comings in some sort of catharsis therapy. Monotheism sucks big time!!!!

08:33 / 14.01.04

Most of the stuff I reckon that's in the christian mythos is appropiated from either older cthonick sources and mebbe products of gnosis induced by fastings, entheogens, dream states, etc.... Catholicism has a more ceremonial taint to other brands of christanity. I get the geist of the OCD connection though. Some people do confession in their cubicles whilst others may go to therapy classes to shout out their angst and their own short-comings in some sort of catharsis therapy. Monotheism sucks big time!!!!

10:33 / 14.01.04

Isn`t this what religion is trying to do, control their sorrundings, get a grip? Is christianity a big compulsive disorder? thoughts?

Nice little glass house you're building up there, mate. Isn't that what chaos magic is trying to do, control their surroundings, get a grip? Is chaos magic a big compulsive disorder? thoughts?

Monotheism sucks big time!!!!

I don't think it does. Convince me.

12:48 / 14.01.04

that might have come out wrong

..the post is not a criticism of religion, I like religion to an extent, just throwing out some thoughts regarding its nature..and yes, chaos magic does the exact same thing..

trying to control your surroundings is a natural reaction to the world..so is religion..

13:42 / 14.01.04

I think there's a serious connection between OCD and some formal religion. The more devout, the more extreme the connection seems. And the more anxious believers get when they can't do their rituals.

Take Judaism, which which I'm most familiar. You're not supposed to combine milk and meat products, so devout Orthodox people (like some members of my family) have two sinks, two sets of silverware, two dishwashers, etc. If they visit a non-Orthodox person's house, or the house of someone they don't think is sufficiently Orthodox, they generally don't eat, or bring their own food, plates, and silverware.

Hygiene can be incredibly critical. I've heard of people who brought along a blowtorch to sanitize an oven before they'd eat food cooked in it. It's like an episode of Monk. (Do they show Monk on British TV?)

Then there are the prayers. Wake up, say a prayer. Wash your hands, say a different prayer. Prepare to eat a meal, say more prayers. Finish the meal, say yet another prayer. See a rainbow -- yes, there's a prayer for that, too. And they're obligatory. Seems pretty compulsive to me.

I once discussed this with a Freudian analyst at a seder. She bought the connection with OCD right away.

It seems Catholicism has some of the same elements. Commit a sin, say a particular prayer over and over a set number of times. Devout? Repeat it under your breath while walking down the street. Click off the rounds on your rosary.

Compulsive?

Maybe.

17:11 / 14.01.04

A web search reveals that religious OCD has a name: scrupulosity.

Here's an article suggesting that devout Catholics are more vulnerable to OCD than less devout people:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2014244.stm

11:10 / 15.01.04

I think there's a serious connection between OCD and some formal religion.

I think magic or any other ritualistic activity is susceptible to the same criticisms though. Take chaos magic for instance, in which adherents frantically masturbate over little drawings out of a belief that it might improve their fortunes. Or the branch of ceremonial magic that encourages practitioners to perform the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram twice daily, and the Liber Resh solar adorations four times daily, on top of an ever increasing set of additional practices.

In my opinion, OCD is something that you always have to keep an eye on as it's a very easy trap to fall into - especially if you operate within an especially demanding paradigm. But I'd also speculate that the kind of headspace that produces these compulsive behaviour patterns might be closely connected to the behind-the-scenes processes of magic - if you get what I mean. When you get to a point where your practices are seemingly driving you half-crazy, I think you can access all sorts of heavy and powerful areas that you might not even get a glimpse of otherwise. If you're not prepared to risk a bit of sanity loss then I don't think you're likely to get all that far, and OCD is one of the more obvious ways in which that sanity loss might manifest. I think part of the skill of being an effective magician is being able to manage this sort of thing, to keep it under control so that it remains a useful tool rather than becoming problematic or even destructive. Which I think is often easier said than done.

trouser the trouserian

11:41 / 15.01.04

Well I'd definitely add Gematria to the list - in fact one probably needs to be Obsessive-Compulsive in order to get into it's 'higher' levels.

12:02 / 15.01.04

I imagine Gematria gets as obseessive as it can. Just about everything you could label as an obsession in a way. Monotheism leads to wars because everyone presumes their god/godess gives them the divine right against alll other heathens. Look at the foolish path of the Crusades and what happens around us in the Middle East. Tis divide and rule - people should accept other religious/spiirual systems (course alot of them stink of oppression) - so therefore polytheism appears an acceptable path forward. Monotheism has gave us nothing but a world of feudal/corporate appointed deacons intent on bloodlusts to fuel twisted agendas!

12:26 / 15.01.04

Monotheism leads to wars because everyone presumes their god/godess gives them the divine right against alll other heathens.

Because of course, historically, polytheistic cultures never go to war, treat all their neighbours with the utmost respect, and love puppies, kittens, and their mum.

Tis divide and rule - people should accept other religious/spiirual systems (course alot of them stink of oppression) - so therefore polytheism appears an acceptable path forward.

You're talking about monotheism as if its synonomous with fundamentalism and religious intolerance, which strikes me as a bit of a straw man argument.

12:56 / 15.01.04

No question that ritual magic can lend itself to OCD. It seems to me that anxiety is the key factor. If you're constantly anxious about whether you're doing the LBRP (or whatever) correctly, or if you're worried that failure to do it twice a day will lead to some sort of dire consequences, then there's a problem. Same critique probably applies to practices like martial arts, yoga, or even weightlifting.

But formal religion seems to have a little something extra. Perhaps it's the fact that the dire consequences of failing to perform a particular ritual -- or perform it correctly -- are actually built into the religion, and drilled into practitioners from a very early age. Fail to say the shema and you're not a frum Jew. Don't say those Hail Marys and you're quite possibly going to hell.