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The Last Samurai

 
 
pointless and uncalled for
10:15 / 10.01.04
Yes Ok, I can understand that the concept of Tom Cruise becoming the last person to become a samurai could put you off but Inreally think that you shouldn't.

Admittedly this is not an award winning film in my book but I did find that with the exception of two moments that the whole thing was done reasonably well.

This is where the possilble spoilage kicks in

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The two moments that I refer to are:

The part where Cruise has his moment of enlightenment as a disciplined combatant. This it might be worth noting is somewhat nessecary to the story if you don't want to assume a large jump in a learning curve without being told about it. If you haven't seen the film that may not make too much sense.

The other part is the one where Cruise does a bit of Mr. Smith goes to Tokyo. Despite not wanting it in the film I find it hard to say if this bit is actually bad and therefore I guess I think it should remain in the film.

Beyond these two parts I really found the film handled the various aspects of the story quite well and remained objective on it's position of cultural differences. It doesn't resort to heavy stereotyping (a little occurs but more on the american side than the japanese) or careless avoidance.
 
 
■
11:36 / 10.01.04
Hmmm. When I saw the trailer, I just thought Dances With Wolves with swords. Tell me I'm very wrong and I'll go and see it.
 
 
Foust is SO authentic
20:11 / 10.01.04
No, you're right. Not much beyond "American fights evil savage, then lives with evil savage, learns evil savage isn't so evil, learns their noble ways, fights along side them, loses battle.

This film actually has lines such as,

"I will miss our conversations."

and,

"Tell me how he died."
"I will tell you how he lived."

It's series of cliches all tied together, though the photography kicks ass. It's a very nice looking movie.

And any movie with Samurai (no matter the context) in it gets +1 on the a scale of one to ten, so I'll give this one six.
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
23:37 / 10.01.04
I wouldn't quite say Dances with Wolves w/swords but something along those lines.

Foust is about right with the six but it will rise to seven or eight for afficionados of chop sockey and wu cha films.
 
 
the laowai with the golden arm
12:52 / 11.01.04
It's better than Dances with Wolves, but not as good as Glory. Though it has a better desparate charge at the end (I don't think that really rates a spoiler). Great use of ninjas though! Plus seeing the Cruiser beaten all to hell with a bokken reminded me of Cool Hand Luke. All in all what Hollywood does best, though you could spend a great deal of time questioning its sanitation/simplification of the ethics of the Samurai.
 
 
Foust is SO authentic
19:10 / 11.01.04
I thought the ninjas were cartoony. It was like a never ending stream of them towards the end of that battle.

And I'm under the impression that ninjas were assasin, spies, whatever. Samurai without an official lord. Since when are they used for platoon sized attacks?
 
 
Cat Chant
20:04 / 11.01.04
I thought the ninjas were cartoony.

So is this like Ninjas of the Caribbean? Because if not, someone should make that movie.
 
 
nedrichards is confused
16:41 / 12.01.04
Given the preponderance of pirates in that part of the world (south china sea and all that) why couldn't they make Tom the last Pirate and then have a neverending stream on ninjas?

Oh and isn't it +1 for Samurai and also +1 for Ninjas (since modifiers stack) which makes it a 7 and *officially* 2.7 times better than legally Blonde 2:My Dog Is Gay.
 
 
Foust is SO authentic
20:06 / 12.01.04
Actually, I already included +1 for ninjas.
 
 
Sebastian
13:30 / 14.01.04
This hasn't reached us yet (Argentina). But the trailer makes most people laugh at the cinema, while some contort in their seats under waves of nausea.

Even if it is a bearable movie, I anticpate it will go unnoticed.

Blame the trailer.
 
 
The resistable rise of Reidcourchie
08:51 / 26.01.04
Originally posted by Deva

"So is this like Ninjas of the Caribbean? Because if not, someone should make that movie."

Somebody has, but they shouldn't have.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092548/
 
 
Seth
09:26 / 26.01.04
I saw this last week. Startng on a positive note, the acting, action sequences and design work were all spot on. I have a lot of time for the extremely talented lady who played Taka. Ken Watanabe was also perfectly cast (although I couldn't help but be reminded of Chow Yun Fat's work in CTHD and Anna and the King).

But the script really is that bad. And the smaltz is shocking, we had to shave our whole bodies after the screening because we'd never have been able to wash to the cheese out of our hair. And the cheese was flying from the screen in all kinds of smelly trajectories.

And yes, its another example of Hollywood rewriting world history so that America is the star of the show. I reckon film mnakers around the world should gang up to reverse that trend. To use this film's analogy, what if Custer had been forced to rely on a Samurai at the Little Big Horn?

Of course, everyone knows that Custer died at the battle of the Little Big Horn. What this movie presupposes...
 
 
invisible_al
17:05 / 26.01.04
Oh I don't know, the film isn't perfect by a long shot and it does re-write history and simplfy the whole thing but I find it hard to dislike. It's one of the few films that I've seen recently that actually says yes the American government are arseholes, but I doubt they'd be able to film it unless the hero was also an american.

I liked it because of Ken Watanabe and the rest of the Samurai, they were much better than Cruise, the Silent Samurai aka Bob especially. And their costumes were lush In fact the whole film looks lush, filmed mostly in New Zeland as I understand it.

I liked the very understated romance plot as well, all conveyed with snatched glances and the like. One kiss and that's it. Lady who played Tara was very good a keeping it subtle.

But speaking as kung-fu fanboy I was jumping up and down at Ninja v Samurai fight, yes it was silly but what the hell it was an excuse for some lots of jumping through walls and sword fighting. Even Cruise v Assasins was not that shoddy. Final battle was nice for the ammount of carnage inflicted on both sides and I'm always a sucker for a futile charge on horseback.

Going to seek out some more Kurosawa now.
 
 
Tezcatlipoca
07:35 / 27.01.04
And I'm under the impression that ninjas were assasin, spies, whatever. Samurai without an official lord. Since when are they used for platoon sized attacks?

The. Plural. Of. Ninja. Is. Ninja. Goddamnit. Although you're right in that they were assassins and spies. In a 'Where's Wally?' scene of feudal Japan, the ninja is more likely to be the person sitting in the corner playing the lute than the person running around dressed in black, but they were most definitely not Samurai. Ninja were 'eta', or non-people, their social status being pretty much comparable to that of peasants.

I'm still undecided about seeing this. Originally it looked like a version of Clavell's masterpiece, Shogun, but whilst it did looked beautifully shot, the thread here kinda gives the impression that it's the scriptwriter(s) who should have been shot. And I have one mighty bugbear about American history editing...
 
 
The resistable rise of Reidcourchie
07:44 / 27.01.04
Tez are you sure about Ninja? I've heard a couple of different ideas and as far as I'm aware there's relativly little proof of their actual existence.

I've hebeen told that the myth of the ninja began as peasant bandits and kind of got blown out of proportion but I've also heard it said that they were a disgraced Samurai Clan.
 
 
Seth
09:14 / 27.01.04
Ninja were 'eta', or non-people, their social status being pretty much comparable to that of peasants.

Utter drivel. Everyone knows that ninja can fly and throw fireballs and shit. The whole world looks up to them.

Fuck off and read a book, Tez.
 
 
Tezcatlipoca
09:58 / 27.01.04
[thread rot]

Tez are you sure about Ninja?

Well, reasonably, yes. I mean, obviously my information comes only from those same sources that might - as you say - have been an example of the myth that has undoubtedly surrounded the Ninja. As far as I’m aware, the current belief is that they were originally people - and probably peasants or masterless Samurai - who disliked living under the heel of their Samurai lords, and sought a purpose by being employed to do the military jobs - specifically covert operations - which no self-respecting Samurai would even consider.

It’s known that the term Ninja derives from the Japanese Shinobi-no-mono, which is written with two kanji characters that can be pronounced as nin-sha (although don’t ask me how, my knowledge of Oriental pronunciation is not all it might be). The first character, nin, refer to concealment, while the second, sha, means person, ergo a person who hides his presence. Again, this refers to covert operations, and usually those of a military persuasion. Sun Tzu makes mention of the tactics of espionage employed by Ninja, but admittedly never mentions them by name.

There are plenty of documents which do mention Ninja by name however, the earliest being around the 1100's if I recall correctly, and from the period of the Tokugawan Shogunate there are a wealth of surviving documents and records about Ninja activity, although since it was invariably Tokugawan scribes writing about Tokugawan Ninja, it's likely that they might have exaggerated their abilities just a tad.


Fuck off and read a book, Tez

You poor deluded fellow, Seth. You are clearly trying to build the Ninja up to a level where you feel they could compete with Pirates, which just isn't going to happen, mate. Now go and commit Seppuku at once. Perhaps Reidcourchie would care to second you if he has a Katana handy...?

[/thread rot]
 
 
The resistable rise of Reidcourchie
13:58 / 27.01.04
Sorry chum I'm a pirate meself I'll just let him bleed to death and nick all his sweets, mebbe keel haul if I can be bothered.

Good post Tez, can you suggest any refrences, either online or good old fashioned book learnin'.
 
 
Tezcatlipoca
16:05 / 27.01.04
Good post Tez, can you suggest any refrences, either online or good old fashioned book learnin'.

Sure. Have sent you a PM so as not to rot the thread any further.
 
 
Squirmelia
11:44 / 28.01.04
How do you say 'The Last Samurai' in Japanese?
 
  
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