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Kundalini

 
  

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illmatic
08:54 / 09.01.04
Having a look at Cat Yrownde's Sacred Sex Pages - which are amazing and deserve a thread all of their own, a thought struck me. She talks of traditonal Hindu tantric practice as consisting of the meditations I'm sure a lot of people here are familar with - "raising Kundalini" from Mulahadra to Head, through 7 chakras etc. I have a number of books which reiterate this as the standard tantric practice, but having read a little deeper into tantric ideas, I know this is not the case - there's a multitude of different ideas and practices. It seems to me that if people get over the first cliche of thinking of tantric as shagging, then they think of it as consisting soley of these practices. I thought it might be worth asking ) why do people find this idea so attractive and b) what's the validity of it - has anyone done any of these practices, what were the results, or are you aware of any first person accounts that have something interesting to say? Be interested in hearing of any accounts or opinions on energy work with the body, "chakras", whatever - and obviously, I'd love to hear from anyone whose done this stuff and become enlightened
 
 
macrophage
19:18 / 09.01.04
Energies - just another belief system or model. I emphasise with alot of the stuff - why do people get attracted to certain systems????? How could these collective of memes seduce into their pathworkings?
 
 
Unconditional Love
19:22 / 09.01.04
to immerse the self in a set of symbols or mythology creates a reference point or allows for use of focus some people find this order useful others dont. i personally like all the different coloured maps and enjoy joining the dots.
 
 
hashmal
19:44 / 10.01.04
after snow white cleans the house of the seven dwarfs she gets to be kissed by the prince and go live in his father's house
 
 
akira
20:03 / 10.01.04
So what do the dwarfs represent?
 
 
LVX23
00:07 / 11.01.04
Ha! Fancy the synchro...I just finished reading "The Da Vinci Code".
 
 
Aertho
03:34 / 11.01.04
Bashful - Muladhara / Beige and Purple VMeme

Grumpy - Svadisthana / Red and Blue VMeme

Doc - Manipura / Orange and Green VMeme

Happy - Anahata / Yellow and Turquoise VMeme

Sneezy - Vishuddha / Coral and Teal VMeme

Sleepy - Ajna / altered state consciousness

Dopey - Sahasrana / unity

?
 
 
hashmal
05:02 / 11.01.04
i haven't read 'the da vinci code', how does it relate to this topic?
 
 
trouser the trouserian
15:26 / 11.01.04
Interesting questions, Illmatic. I've been reflecting on the Kundalini/chakras concepts for quite a while now. But you asked for 'experiences', so here's mine.

I first came across these concepts in Theosophical literature, and later, through reading Gopi Krishna and Kenneth Grant, decided that I wasn't really 'advanced' enough start doing that kind of thing. In 1984, whilst living in York, I met an older woman (referred to as EE: she was in her early 40s, I was 24) who was on the same course as me. She was a Hatha yoga teacher who'd had some experience of tantric practice, and was interested in western occultism, and we formed a magical partnership (later a full-blown affair). She started coaching me in yoga & pranayama (I wasn't a complete stranger to it as I'd done some Iyengar-style practice in my teens) and I started doing some ritual work with her and introduced her to the Wiccan coven I was in at the time. She asked me if I was interested in doing some "kundalini yoga" but I recall being quite cautious about it.

Prior to this development, I'd been doing a lot of magical work with Kali - meditation on her various aspects - mostly devotional stuff really. This also crossed over into the work with the Wiccan coven. In retrospect, I'd say that my first 'kundalini cycle' began following the coven's Autumn Equinox working in September 1984 during which I was given the Second Degree initiation. What followed this was an intense "death-rebirth" vision of being burnt alive and then reformed by Kali. The experiences which, at the time I identified as 'Kundalini'-related began a few days later. Here's a few extracts from my magical diary of the period:

29 September 1984
Diary entry: EE came around and we talked. I'd been experiencing mild disorientation all day. At about 10pm I experienced what I can only describe as a 'fit' - involuntary muscle contractions, feeling hot & cold, teeth chattering, flexing the spine. Deliberately relaxed and slowed down breathing. After a few 'spasms' the sensations passed away. EE said that she thought this was "the serpent beginning to shift."
------------------------
01 October
Diary Entry: During the morning's Medicine & Surgery tutorial I had been experiencing acute discomfort: a 'knotting' sensation in the Lumbar region, the sensation of 'projecting' [i.e. sensations I associated with OOBE] and mild hallucinations. EE asked me what was wrong and restated her opinion that "the serpent was shifting" but did not elaborate. The sensations subsided as the day wore on.
-------------------
03 October
Diary Entry: Spent the evening with John P (John Pearson, friend from OT course) having a conversation about 'ki'. All throughout the conversation I was experiencing sensations of 'energy' rushing through my body. Eventually we decided to do some meditation. I felt that John's energy was 'all over the place' and so mentally reached out to 'calm him down'. He opened his eyes and said "what did you just do?" I was also surprised.
------------------------------
06 October
Diary Entry: At about midnight last night I 'received' a terrific flood of power. It began as the echo of a scream in my head - Kali's scream I thought - it echoed on and on, for what seemed like forever, until I no longer heard it - I felt it like a white light which shot down my spine, into Muladhara which opened with a blaze of light. A cold fire (like every nerve was alight) spread around my body. I could feel it glowing from my fingertips. I began to tremble & twitch and felt a very jarring disorientation, which became a very rapid whirling if I closed my eyes. All this went on for at least an hour and I struggled to remain in control.

Went to bed around 2am. The sensations returned - very strong sense of physical dislocation. I was quite scared actually, and at one point was chanting names of various goddesses.
Woke up around 10am still feeling 'on fire'. This feeling lasted most of the day and only started to abate around 5pm or so. I visited Shirley (Shirley McIver - friend from my days at Huddersfield Polytechnic and one of the first magicians I ever met) and she remarked on my demeanour and asked what I'd been 'up to' (i.e. magically). Said I wasn't sure what was happening.

I feel very much as though my 'magical confidence' has been shaken.
-----------------------
08 October
Diary Entry: suffered insomnia all night. Finally slept around 8am. In college for mid-day. Spoke briefly to EE - she said that she'd also experienced the 'Kali Scream' at roughly the same time that I did and that she'd also experienced feelings of disorientation. At the moment it feels like the 'scream' is still going on in some level of my being - it's like the echo of a feeling (very weird).
---------------------------

At the time I recollect I was quite disturbed by these experiences - with few people to turn to and not much in the way of information. They were intensely 'physical' and I found myself doing basic hatha yoga/relaxation techniques in an effort to keep 'calm' as much as anything else.

The weirdness ('fits', euphoria, OOBEs, etc) carried on for the next month or so, and over the years I've had other 'phases' of Kundalini activity, usually related to bursts of creativity or intense magical works.

As to my conception of Kundalini/chakras, this has changed significantly over the last 20 years (and continue to do so). In retrospect, what was particularly useful about the above experiences is that their very physicality did much to shatter many of the preconceptions I had by that time build up around Kundalini (and indeed, much else).
 
 
macrophage
18:59 / 11.01.04
On the 7 Dwarfs tip there was a book called Psychadelic Monographs and Essays that had a Jungian perspective on the little fellas!!! (collection compiled by Thomas Lyttle) There is a part of Liber HHH, called SSS which is about activating the so called golf club chakra (the brain and the spine) - any droogs tried it? I've read Gopi Krisna - good stuff. Coupled with Pranayama....... kundalini is like energy, viz a viz - chi, prana, vril, od, orgone, bioplasma, etc.... I'm in awe of alot of their mantrums, very impressive on the ears. The first time I did a Ganesh invocation that was awesome, loadsa mad visuals of orifice-tunnels leading everywhere (much like wormholes in Farscape!), I did it as well to start writing as he is patron Godform of writing endeavours - with persistance anything is possible!!! They say certain music can excite the Kundalini snake!!!???!!!!
 
 
trouser the trouserian
13:16 / 12.01.04
I'd propose for this discussion it might be useful to try and 'unpack' terms such as Kundalini, Chakras etc., and see if this sheds any light on understanding them.

Concepts such as Kundalini 'energy', chakras etc., are often presented as ageless and immutable - that class of esoteric knowledge that's generally assumed to be 'ancient' when in actuality, like most other esoteric models, they have developed over time within the Tantric traditions. What's often confusing for Westerners is that (in India at least) there is no one, universal system of chakras. There are some Tantric lineages - (for example the Sahajiyas of Bengal) who have a subtle body map which doesn't use chakras at all.

The situation becomes further complicated when one starts to look and how these concepts have been changed as they were introduced into Western occultism. In general, the seven-chakra system so beloved of modern new age/occult books comes from the 16th century Satcakranirupana Tantra as translated & edited by Arthur Avalon and published as The Serpent Power in 1918. It is Woodroffe (together with some 19th century Indian writers who wanted to demonstrate that Indian traditions were 'scientific') who is largely responsible for relating the chakras to the endocrine system/nerve plexuses. The other major influence on the development of the western theories of chakra/kundalini action is the writings of Theosophists such as Alice Bailey and CW Leadbeater - in particular the latter's book The Chakras published in 1927. Leadbeater was the first to make the claim that the chakras have an 'objective' existence within the subtle body and can be perceived clairvoyantly and that they are 'energy centres' and 'transformers' of energy between higher and lower states. You won't find such ideas in Tantrik texts. Mind you, the Theosophists in general seemed to have an altogether dim view of the traditions that they were nicking their concepts from. Here's a quote from Mme Blavatsky:

"He who has studied both systems, the Hatha and Raja-Yoga, finds an enormous difference between the two: one is purely psycho-physiological, the other purely psycho-spiritual. The Tantrists do not seem to go higher than the six visible and known plexuses, with each of which they connect the Tattvas; and the great stress they lay on the chief of these, the Muladhara Chakra (the sacral plexus), shows the material and selfish bent of their efforts towards the acquisition of powers."

A further popular addition to the chakras was made by Christopher Hills in the 1970s. Hills' major contribution was the association of the chakras with the seven colours of the spectrum. He was also one of the first people to associate the 7-chakra system with personality types. Since then, with the explosion of the "New Age" movement, all manner of correspondences - gemstones, crystals, musical scales, psychological elements etc., have been trowelled onto the chakra "system" - to the extent that the only element that some modern, western, accounts of chakras have in common with the original Hindu concepts is the term 'chakra'.
 
 
Bard: One-Man Humaton Hoedown
17:37 / 13.01.04
I've done some work with chakras and kundilani and the like, but not quite in the Tantric sense. From what I know of Tantra, it seems to be a very disicplined sort of self-mastery through sexual arousal. That is, it controls the most base, primal part of ourselves, our sex drive and the physical/psychological urge to orgasm, and focuses it. That's a lot of energy right there.

I've found that meditating on kundilani and how it climbs the chakras is very useful for calling up power, and I also find that a great deal of energy escapes from the crown chakra at the top of your head. Thus, one of the things that I've been working on is a sort of metaphysical, mystical energy tantra, where the rush of energy is held inside you. I've succesfully done this a few times, and it creates quite the rush of power.
 
 
Unconditional Love
18:58 / 13.01.04
in alchemical taoism there is an eight chakra system and a microcosmic orbit of energy that cycles up the spine over the head and down the front of the body that may intrest you it is tied into tai chi and chi kung practice within some schools of teaching. it has been popularised by mantak chia but there are other sources to study from.
 
 
illmatic
13:10 / 14.01.04
Bar: Thanks for posting about your experience. There's loooooaddds of different defintions and approaches to tantra. One approach iis to look at it through the lenses of that ol' cross cultural appropriation" chesnut. See A of G's post above. That's the kind of dialogue I'd like to get going here, though leavened with dose of people's own experience. Ultimately, I'd favour experience over theory, but it's interesting to see how the two might interact. I think the Western approach as a kind of map (one of many subtle body maps) borrowed from the East, onto which we have attached our own symbolism. What I find interesting is the way in which people can still generate experience from these different maps.

I've tried some of the exercise given in John Mumford's books. Mumford is an interesting case - he's spent a lot of time in India, and has studied with at least two Indian gurus. He mentions somewhere a 12 chakra system that he's learnt, based on the signs of the Indian zodiac - bit of a cock in the eye for the "there are 7 chakras and they're real" brigade - as well as another system, though in his published work he sticks to the common (in the West) 7 Chakra system based on the Sat Chakra Nirpuna. He's actually one of the few people I've seen who takes the time to detail the range of supplementary symbolism found around the chakras in Indian sources, though he doesn't explore it fully (I'd like to see some texts which do do this). When I was doing some of the exercises he proscribes I started having dreams about the Mulahadra Chakra and associated symbols. The interesting thing is this followed a long period of dream/astral work - it was as if my previous work had "programmed" me to respond in this manner. If the chakras will fit into to my previous work in this manner it implies to me some of the grandiose calims made about their awakening aren't true.

More thoughts? I'd be particularly interested to here about any experiences with the upper body and head chaakras. I know Absence of Gravitas has a lot more to say on this subject.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
18:51 / 14.01.04
Interesting post, Bard.
I also find that a great deal of energy escapes from the crown chakra at the top of your head.

Would you be into elaborating on that point? How do you experience this?

Currently, when I meditate upon Kundalini-Shakti, I do not experience her as localised in any one region of my body, rather, I experience a general feeling of increased awareness radiating outwards - increased awareness of my body initially, then of any activity in my local environment. The longer I do this, the wider the sense of identification (with other activities) becomes. For example, during a recent meditation on her, I became increasingly aware of cars passing outside, and 'felt' them to be a manifestation of her. Sitting in a chair, I 'felt' Kundalini-Shakti's presence in the chair.

This probably sounds quite strange, so I will attempt to explain some of my current thinking on this subject (which arises out of my practice and in turn feeds it). The Universe is a manifestation of Shakti. The term Shakti is derived from the root Shak - power; 'to be able'; mobility; energy. Shakti also implies for me relationship. So when I meditate on Kundalini-Shakti as a particular manifestation of Shakti within my body, I am simultaneously meditating on Kundalini-Shakti's 'wider' manifestation in the world (Mahakundalini). Kundalini is sometimes described as the 'world-bewilderer' and her nature is threefold (she is sometimes identified with Tripura).

As I frame it, the purpose of my meditations on Kundalini-Shakti is to become more aware of her presence and collapse the distinction between myself as an individual separate from the
world into a deepening sense of self as being enmeshed in complex relationships. For me, one of the benefits of the tantric approach is both theory and practice are very much concerned with exploring the web of relationships in which we are embedded.

Does that make sense?
 
 
illmatic
08:29 / 15.01.04
It does make sense.

One question I would pose tho' is how does this relate to traditonal concepts of Kundalini - or rather "traditional" Western concepts of Kundalini?

I see it Kundalini very much as "energy" and movement within my body - which might not be "raising the serpent" up through the chakras as such but just becoming increasingly aware of my body, and it's aliveness. One experience I'e had which I've had which I count as a manifestation of Kundalini is when I practice deep relaxation (exercises takens from Mumford's book above). Sometimes my body will start to shake very gently as I relax and release tension. I see the "whatever-causes-it" behind the shaking, the animating force, as Kundalini. This fits in for me quite nicely with your description above - from an awareness of movement in the body to an awareness of movement in the world, with the idea that they are not seperate phenomena but part of the same continumn.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
10:26 / 15.01.04
Illmatic

One question I would pose tho' is how does this relate to traditonal concepts of Kundalini - or rather "traditional" Western concepts of Kundalini?

Well I'll try and be as concise as possible. In various texts, Kundalini-Shakti is described as the particularisation of Shakti which creates, maintains, and destroys the universe. I know you're familiar with the 'threefold natures' concept, so I'll just say keep this in mind for the moment. In the good old Satcakranirupana Tantra (and elsewhere) She is described in terms of being an "organising principle". When She is asleep, the Yogin is awake to the world. When She awakes, the Yogin is asleep to the world and awake to Brahman. Kundalini-Shakti is the Shakti of the physical world - of forms, if you like. Hence my earlier note about her being the "world-bewilderer." Her sleeping state is often equated with her being 'dormant' as tho' she were passive or doing nothing. Rather, She is in equilibrium, maintaining all forms - from human bodies to galaxies. In her sleeping state She governs the activity of Avidya - the knowledge of becoming and the diversity of forms (i.e. Maya). Her rising transforms Avidya into Vidya ie (direct) knowledge of the undifferentiated Absolute (Brahman). The Siddhis and their attendant metanoias are byproducts of this process.

My thoughts on Kundalini have been influenced by Sri Aurobindo's doctrine of "Intregal Yoga". In the Intregal Yoga approach, there is no attempt to consciously 'raise' Kundalini as he proposes that her activity is not directable by the conscious self. "She rises in her own time and according to her own choosing." Again, this view is informed by my experiences with Kundalini-Shakti over the last twenty years or so. She makes her presence felt when 'She wants to' - possibly in response to a multitude of 'triggers' - but it's not something I try and consciously 'make happen'.

Quite how that fits in with the Western appropriations of Kundalini as body energy isn't something I've given a great deal of thought to, as it's not really where I'm coming from.
 
 
illmatic
12:37 / 15.01.04
Here's a fragment of a related text a friend posted elsewhere recently. It's taken from the "Yoga Vidya of Immortality" by Dadaji. Dadaji was an Englishman who emigrated to India in the 1950's as part of a spirtual quest, and became the last guru of the Adi-Nath sect. Quite a controversial point of view, I wouldn't mind hearing someone anyone contests this idea.

Laya Yoga and Hatha Yoga both originated by the Natha Sampradaya,
but were never taught or practiced by the Adi-Naths. The original
Natha teachings of Laya Yoga were expounded by Gorakshanath, and
were an attempt to raise the levels of consciousness until they
reached the level of liberation. There are no records to show that
any sadhu in history has ever attained liberation by this method.
Nathas themselves say that the teachings were only symbolism.

Nevertheless, the idea of the dormant potential in man, lying low
like a coiled serpent and raising itself to higher levels has been
misunderstood, and even taught as a snake in the body which can be
``raised''by Laya Yoga. The raising of the Kundalini serpent is
still a popular vogue, and exploited by cunning ``holy men.''

The term Kundalini Yoga is a very modern invention, and was never
used by any of the Nath writers. The Adi-Naths condemned it because,
if it had any value, it could only be practiced under the guidance
of an experienced guru. Such people have not existed for hundreds of
years, and those who learn their kundalini raising from book -
mostly written by foreigners, and always by people who have never
been successful themselves - often begin to suffer from insanity and
forms of obsession. True methods of liberation are simpler and
without any danger, thus rendering Laya Yoga as superfluous to
spiritual life.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
13:14 / 15.01.04
Dadaji doesn't pull any punches.

In The Tantra of Blowing the Mind he says:

Yet it is still possible to meet young men who claim they can feel the Kundalini moving around inside the pelvis; but this rather indicates, not a good start to their Laya Yoga, but the need for some indigestion or tapeworm medicine!

Part of the 'problem' of Kundalini is that the majority of people writing about it are not practitioners. Even those authors who are well-versed in Tantric history/theory - Sir John Woodroffe & David Gordon White being two examples - have not experienced what they are talking about. Tantra is experiental - theory and practice cannot be seperated. This is my main 'beef' with the Theosophical/New Age portrayal of chakras/kundalini. I'd argue that Western populist constructions of chakras/kundalini are a good example of cultural appropriation in action, in that they effectively neutralise, trivialise and distort the original traditions from which they are drawn. In the case of the Indic body-cosmologies that the kundalini/chakras dynamic represent a group of instances of, - the 'original' doctrines have been made 'insivible'. It's another instance of the 'McDonaldisation' of sophisticated and heterogenous spiritual engagements into easily digestible, bite-size chunks for the consumer market.

A further note to my last post: According to Intregal Yoga teaching, the 'rising' of Kundalini-Shakti is directed by the Jivatman. Now the Jivatman can be described as the 'divine spark' (Shakti, if you like) in living beings - but it is that aspect of Shakti which is individualised for the purpose of manifesting as a limited form in the world. The Jivatman is not the conscious self or ego which experiences the world. It is sometimes said that the Jivatman wears the body and its variety of processes as 'garments'.
 
 
illmatic
13:49 / 15.01.04
AoG - To throw in another comment based on my reading of your stuff above. When I first started reading about Indian religion and mysticism in general I had a conception of the “absolute” or “brahma” or whatever you want to call it as almost a kind of otherwordly thing, almost a realm removed like the Christian conception of Heaven, alongside the imagery of flashing white light. etc Bit like the “Kether” issue of Promthea actually. Since reading a bit deeper into this, I don’t see it this way anymore – I see it more as consciousness of not being separate from the world, a sense of the totality of things. (Which can probably be on a continuum from a little bit of a shift in perspective to a full on altered state). The meditation you talk of seems along these lines – directing your attention towards the world and feeling our presence and participation in it. Seeing the connection with us and the world rather than the separation with ultimately no separation between the knower, knowledge and the medium of that knowledge. This is one of the things I appreciate about tantric stuff – it pushes your attention towards this world, while at the same time reminding us we are it – in that it’s occurring through our senses and consciousness etc all the time.

Now does that make sense
 
 
illmatic
14:03 / 15.01.04
BTW, the whole reason I started this thread was because I was wondering about the validity of the much touted "raise the kundalini" theory. Always puzzled that I'd seen very few first person accounts. Quite chuffed to see Dadaji confirming this.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
15:15 / 15.01.04
Seeing the connection with us and the world rather than the separation with ultimately no separation between the knower, knowledge and the medium of that knowledge.

Yeah, and this can be a very gradual process.

Regarding Dadaji's rather uncompromising stance - I'd be hesitant to dismiss other approaches completely out of hand - another practitioner's perspective is always welcome.

Here's a post from a dude - Robert Bruce - who is seemingly claiming to have achieved it. He says Set aside at least six hours for a kundalini raising attempt. and I would suggest that the minimum requirement before anyone even thinks about raising their kundalini would be to develop wake induced OBE ability, plus good trance and energy body control. On top of this, I would also suggest anyone wanting to do this has the willpower to do a 14 day water fast (nothing but water and vitamin pills). If you can do all this, you probably have a good chance at success.

He holds forth some more here. For example:

Kundalini is a specific phenomenon, involving a snakelike movement of energy up through the body, 3.5 turns clockwise and then out through the head. This is an extremely physical, visceral sensation; often painful. Chakra stimulation and activation and energy movement of any type can loosely be said to be kundalini related. But I dislike this term as it is confusing to relate too many things to a specific phenomenon. This is like saying that flashlights, car batteries, electric lights, and all electrical devices, are all lightning related phenomena. This 'could' be said to be a true statement, but you must admit that this would cause great confusion if it were generally used.

Apparently he's writing a book on his experiences and method.
 
 
cusm
15:28 / 15.01.04
Well, I don't know if you'd cal it Kundalini, but I've done some work with orgasm control and raising the tingle of sexual energy above the pelvis and into the body. Results mainly being of the sort being where the orgasm extends into more of the body than just the gennitels. I started toying with this when I noticed how easily my legs would spasm filled with the same sensation, and started workign with extending that to more of my body. Some success was had, though I lack the discipline to work with it further. I did find that draws and the macrocosmic orbit were effective in raising energy, causing feelings of heat and bliss to wash over me withouth triggering orgasm. Transmuting sexual stimulus into something a bit more wholeistic.

As for chackras, there's one intense experience in particular where I had a really good grasp of the chackras in the sense of the color band as the range of state between the base and the highest self. I didn't perceive it as individual energy centers, so much as band of varying degrees, that I was able to move up and down along to experience whatever level of consciousness I desired. This all following an intense energizing meditation where I called channeled a lot more than I had expected, with the chackra awareness the after effect I toyed with for awhile. So since then I've treated the chackras as markers, but not actual locations, the experience being more fluid than discrete.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
15:40 / 15.01.04
Apparently Robert Bruce is an internationally-renown mystic!
 
 
Devil's Avocado
16:12 / 15.01.04
I have been working with various aspects of chakra work, kunbdalini and tantra for some time now. The main focus has been a ballancing of male and female, left and right channels, before working with the sushumna or middle pillar.

Just over a year ago I was pushing quite hard in these practices. A friend had just opened up to sacred geometry and magick and things started to 'happen'. One night he called in panic as he had unlocked an incredible amount of energy which was pouring through his nervous system uncontrollably. He was slipping in and out of trance and panicing as the experience was slowly intensifying. I spent the next 12 hours trying to ground him. When I got home I cried with joy for him and (as a result) went into the same state myself. I experienced a massive surge of energy throughout my entire body which came pouring out of my hands and crown. The best description I had for this was 'the fire of God pouring through my veins'. I focused through ego panic and was aware of energy bolting up my spine to my crown chakra. Seeing white light pouring down behind the walls of everything, I had an experience of association with all experiences of life. All symbolism became coexistant at every level of correspondance: A 'Galaxy' chocolate bar wrapper IS the Galaxy.
This energy then shifted down to my heart chakra and my awareness bacame a burning love and empathy with all living beings, not just that but a desperation to stop their suffering. As this became totally unbearable, it shifted back to my crown and I was lost for about 15 minutes. After about 45 minutes the 'fire' subsided. I did a lot of crying and was overwhelmed by utter deviotion for the next week. My friend unfortunately went back into that state ncontrollably and as a result was sectioned after panicing friends took him to casualty.
After five days of full on lucid ranting trance, he subsided to 'normal' ego awareness. It was such a complete transition he was released by bewildered doctors who had tested him for just about every drug there is and had no explanation for his condition in the first place.

Though my trigger was tears of joy not trying to ignite kundalini, my earlier pushing I see as definately contrary to Sri Aurobindo's doctrine.
Later my friend admitted pushing into the experience (against my advice). His experience suggests pushing into the experience increases the danger of ego 'blow out'. For my part it took some serious clinging on by fingernails to keep my awareness on Malkuth. Luckily I was in an environment where every time I began to slip away, someone was there to make me do something physical to keep grounded. A few day after this I had an experience of 'suchness' a vibrant quality in all things, and a profound sense of beauty in the most mundane of things. Picking up a cup, or sneezing aroused almost exstatic joy. This was very brief unfortunately but was followed by about two weeks of fearlessness. Not recklessness but fearlesness and acceptance in all actions and decisions in my life. I can only describe it as the most centered I've ever felt.

I have described this experience as a Kether experience, but it was also a 'Christ consciousness' experience and a kundalini awakening. One of the thoughts I had was that these are all the same experience, filtered by our projections, or metanarrative and capacity to consciously interpret what we are experiencing. My friends experience was much more angelic and Christian due to his metanarrative. His insight sharper, more intellectual due to very sharp intellect. Mine were more intuitive and energy/chakra oriented.

Despite the profundity of insight and intensity of experience, a lot of it has slid deep into my subconscious. And I'm stil stuggling with ego I've had glimpses of this experience since, but have stopped pushing and am content to take one rung at a time
 
 
Bard: One-Man Humaton Hoedown
17:53 / 15.01.04
Gravitas wrote:
[Interesting post, Bard.
I also find that a great deal of energy escapes from the crown chakra at the top of your head.

Would you be into elaborating on that point? How do you experience this?]

One thing that I've noticed in all systems of magical geometry, the chakras included, is that there is always a point from any given symbol where energy escapes. That is to say that there are points of power that are best anchored in certain ways. I was once helping a friend set up some trees at his cottage in a pentagon, and he asked me to check it out to see how well the energy flowed together. I found that a massive amount of energy was leaving out of the widest side for some reason, though by anchoring the end in and making a hexagram this loss of energy was averted.

I've sort've found a similar thing with the chakras. Energy rises from the base and climbs up the spine, manifesting in each chakra in a different way, slowly becoming more refined and spiritual as it rises. Essentially it's like a water purifier for the base, primal, hot energies of kundilani. So when it reaches the crown its at its most pure. However, as science tells us, the most heat lost from the human body is out the top of the head. I find that energy goes up from kundilani with such speed (err...rather symbolic of ejaculation...) that it doesn't stop at the crown, but continues moving. I've been wondering if this has something to do with auras.

Thinking on this right now, I'm wondering if some wisdom can't be taken from qabalah in that regard. There is the theoretical state above Kether, Ein Sof. Perhaps the energy is not actually flowing out into the world, but is rathergoing to a higher point in our spiritual selves that is outside our bodies.

Going back to the ejaculatory symbolism there, pushing the energy back down thus becomes a sort of mystical tantra, as I said above.

Strangley enough, my first exposure to any actual information on Tantra was through George RR Martin's anthology "Wild Cards".
 
 
trouser the trouserian
08:50 / 16.01.04
Asa
That's a wonderful post - thanks a lot. I can certainly empathise with your experiences & those of yr friend. In general, I'd that what is important is that we have such experiences, and how we interpret them in terms of this or that 'map' is almost secondary.

What I find impressive in your account is that your own bout of hyperawareness was related to that of your friend - I have also had similar experiences over the years with people - not necessarily 'magical partners' but friendships where there is a mutual 'growing-together' - going on - a sharing if you will - be it intellectual ideas, emotional open-ness, intuitions or even pure lust. What can be quite startling is how this 'growing-together' can manifest as shared 'astral' communications, mutual dreams, the experience of being in each other's bodies, surges of emotion, etc.

This brings up two related issues for me. Firstly, that one of central themes in Tantra which gets missed in Western appropriations (which tend to emphasise technique or purely 'internal' experience) is that so much of Tantric practice is concerned with relationship to other beings - not only devas, yoginis & other-worldly powers but other human beings. There is a great stress placed on 'appropriate' moral conduct (such as Ahimsa - non-violence in thought, word or deed). Eloqunce of speech is one of the Siddhis and the benefits of engaging with others is continually stressed He who makes eight Brahmanas understand this becomes like the sun’s rays. (Ganesha Upanishad).

Secondly, and although this might seem to be a digression, there is to my mind a radical difference between how the Self is perceived in Western and South Asian psychology. I'll try and keep this brief. Western perceptions of the Self value individuality. "Knowing" ones' self - be it couched in spiritual, religioous or even psychoanalytic terms is very much viewed as an interiorised, 'private' process. We find our 'self' as distinct from other individuals. This effects us in quite profound ways, from how we view ourselves as self-determining agents to notions of privacy, sexual identity, etc. Shivananda Khan, an Indian AIDS researcher (arguing that 'Western' constructions of sexual identity cannot be applied to South Asian cultures) says that:

...in our cultures, concepts of individuality, of the separated individual are weak. Family, community, the group, clan, these are the centres of our identities. To be separated, an individual, is often seen socially and religiously as an aberration. We can put the debate succinctly as a conflict between the rights of the individual and the rights of the community.
and
In our cultures and religions, the individual and the community and not seen as separated, as distinct entities. The individual is subsumed within family and community. Personal choices are secondary to family, community and religious choices. In fact choices may not be the right word. Duty, honour, obligation, social contracts may be more appropriate.

I find this argument fits in with my reading/experience of Tantra - where there is a strong emphasis on being a member of a clan (kula), a line of transmission (samprayada) or simply a relationship with a guru. Similarly, texts have a secondary importance - the primary mode of transmission of knowlege is oral (i.e. an enagagement). Indeed, learning from books alone (a 'private' experience?) alone is often denigrated as useless.

Does that make sense?
 
 
illmatic
08:54 / 16.01.04
Full text of the The Yoga Vidya of Immortality for them that wants to read it. I'm really enjoying this thread, lots of great perspectives and accounts of experience. Got work to do though, so back later or over the weekend.

Cusm - you might want to check out those Sacred Sex pages linked above. Sounds like you're doing something very similar. Seems like you 'mericans have got your own homegrown traditon of sex magick!
 
 
Unconditional Love
11:07 / 16.01.04
the idea of chakras goes alot further back than tantric texts, try the chinese medicinal classics for energy centres points and meridians, also the practice of early forms of chi kung, in fact id suggest the tantra of india has alot of its roots in chinese culture and was imported back from its mother culture in later centuries and reintegrated, ie the dialogues between taoists and tantric buddhism from tibet. while i respect dadajis ideas and life i would very much hestitate to view him as an authority, it seems to me that he makes a very comfortable bridge for western occultists to become familiar with eastern ideas, this in itself is a good starting point, but id go on to find yourself a decent teacher or guide to this area, rather than rely on any writings or texts, the individual experience of kundalini varies from human to human and none of the various chakra maps and texts cover it fully, they help as reference points, but really you need somebody who has been through it and appeared out the other side so to speak, as is traditional a good teacher will find you when you are ready.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
11:28 / 16.01.04
I have described this experience as a Kether experience, but it was also a 'Christ consciousness' experience and a kundalini awakening. One of the thoughts I had was that these are all the same experience, filtered by our projections, or metanarrative and capacity to consciously interpret what we are experiencing.

This brings up a futher issue for me which I have been reflecting on of late. Broadly speaking, there are 3 positions on religious (I'm using that term in its broadest category, to include the 'spiritual') experience: (1) that there is only one reality and only one 'True' formulation of it's nature - all others are false or at best incomplete. This is the position taken by fundamentalists and need not concern us here. (2) There is one reality (i.e. experience) and all formulations of it are attempts to express that experience, and (3) that formulations of experience and reality are plural and culturally specific.

It is 2 & 3 which are germane, IMO to this discussion. The second position is often referred to as Perennialism (after Aldous Huxley) and it is attractive to those who look on (spiritual) experience as a cross-cultural constant - that it is a fundamental unity given different modes of expression Differences arise from interpretation, not essence. The third position is that of Constructivism which holds that experience is diverse and particular, and criticises the perennialist position of universality as reducing diversity into a single, dominant model. So the perennialist position is for example: "Nirvana is the Buddhist interpretation of what Plotinus spoke of as union with the One, the Vedantist as realisation of identity with the Universal Self, the Christian as union with God." whereas the constructivist answer would be " ‘God ’can be ‘God ’,‘Brahman ’can be ‘Brahman’ and nirvana can be nirvana without any reductionist attempt to equate the concept ‘God ’with that of ‘Brahman ’,or ‘Brahman' with nirvana."

The reason why I bring this up is the issue of conflating one spiritual formulation with another - one example being that of attempting to 'map' chakra systems onto the Tree of Life. It's not unusual for us to try and understand one particular spiritual formulation by comparing it to another. It's easy to go from doing that to the Perennialist position of assuming that two formulations are (in essence) about the same thing. One of the problems of doing so though IMO is that this 'imposition' of one formulation onto another can be based on superficial readings of them (not accusing anyone here of doing this, mind). An added problem occurrs when the person doing the imposition effectively reduces one position to their own (as occurrs often in Indian sectarian arguments such as Vedanta vs Buddhism).
The constructivist position, although not without its pitfalls (a tendency towards solipsism for one) does at least give allowance for the sophistication of particular formulations. In the words of Stephen Katz it is a "plea for the recognition of differences."

A Constructionist would deny that there is any fundamental unity of experience. I wouldn't go that far, obviously, but I am wary of taking the position which homogolises all formulations of experience as being the 'same' - i.e. a is equivalent to b because they share some similar features. The sage Matsyendranath could be said to be a 'Christ' figure because in some legends, he brings dead people back to life. However, he often killed them first.

How this all comes out for me (at the moment) is that I would argue that spiritual formulations i.e Qabalah, or Tantras have similarities but are not necessarily the same. Thus I am wary of trying to 'explain' how chakras might function in terms of say, the Qabalistic Tree of Life because - taking a hermeneutic stance - I would rather try and understand chakras (etc) as they are presented in terms of the contexts in which they arise.

I don't think this is an argument to get hung up on, but it is worth reflecting on from time to time.
 
 
Aertho
16:50 / 16.01.04
I don't think I'm solipsist, and I understand the modernist ramifications of grafting one system onto another, but how do move forward together if one doesn't make the first step?

I laid the chakras onto the Tree of Life months ago with the help of Spiral Dynamic vMemes. I'm gonna spill em out here, and we can all bicker and add and subtract and at least have my idea to play with.

Step 0ne: Malkuth, Reality as it Manifests

Step Two:
The World, Route 32
Muladhara, I
sense awareness, basic needs and basic drives - Beige VMeme
Muladhara, We
family awareness, self-preservation and psychosexual behavior - Purple VMeme

Step Three:
Yesod, Imagination
Svadisthana, I
egocentricity and anger, pleasure principle - Red VMeme
Svadisthana, We
ethnocentric absolution, law and order - Blue Vmeme

Step Four:
Crossroad of Temperance, Route 24//The Tower, Route 26
Manipura, I
strategic intelligence, goal-oriented - Orange VMeme
Manipura, We
worldcentric consensus, people-oriented - Green VMeme

Step Five:
Tiphereth, The Soul
Anahata, I
awareness of several fluid personas in orbit of a true "ego" - Yellow VMeme
Anahata, We
awareness of collective as complex emerging growth systems - Turquoise VMeme

Step Six:
Crossroad of The High Priestess, Route 13//Stength, Route 19
Vishuddha, I
manipulation of persona roles in others' minds - Coral VMeme
Vishuddha, We
awareness of collective action in Time - Teal VMeme

Step Seven:
Da'ath, Knowledge
Ajna, I

Ajna, We


Step Eight
Crossroad of The High Priestess, Route 13//The Empress, Route 14
Sahasrana, I

Sahasrana, We


Step Nine
Kether, Unity
God

Help me out guys!
 
 
akira
19:28 / 16.01.04
The Tree of Knowledge has its roots in the base chakra so that man may work his way up from animal level to Divine level. And the Tree of Life has its roots in the brain to superimpose the whole system.

Reverse the picture of the tree so that the roots are uppermost (for everything is reversed in Spirit). The roots in the crown chakra area now represent the Spiritual Mind, and the reversed branches in the root chakra area represent the human mind. The human mind is smaller in mass, but the connections are there. So now with a picture of the whole tree; the branches and the root system, you really do get the impression of ‘as above so below’, only there are many more roots than branches.

Now begins the process of matching the two in working capacity. All will be brought into full use; this is entirely possible in the human structure once all imperfections have been removed.

The tree of life is upside down, when its sap rises therefore, it runs down the spinal cord, after the kundalini rises up the spine; which is when man has become the fully energized instrument, and he has learned the role of the Tree of Knowledge. The two do not happen simultaneously, but in stages:

1. The rising of the kundalini to release the Spirit within, and to prepare the neutral rod: the hollow tube.
2. Then the filling of this tube with the sap of the Tree of Life.
3. To produce Divine Man – who stands eternally protected in that great spiral of energy.
 
 
akira
20:09 / 16.01.04
More here:
 
 
David Roel
01:20 / 17.01.04
Check out Integral Psychology by Ken Wilber. He correlates over one hundred different systems in charts. I typed out his comparisons of Spiral Dynamics, Kabbalah, the Chakras and the average age of emergence here.
 
 
Kobol Strom
19:35 / 19.01.04
I really enjoyed the Robert Bruce book, but I failed to find a useful method for raising the kundalini energy. The first time it happened to me, it was a complete accident. It just seemed to build up in my spine,and other areas of my body, as a knot of pain, felt whilst sleeping. Often the knot would break ,at what you might call 'energy' centre areas', as a result of overcoming a nightmare, or breaking down the ego through a dream. I still can't explain it in words, but then its not the kind of experience that fits any verbal description. All I can add to the discussion is that I believe that the 'energy' exists, that it does seem to rise from the base of the spine.It does seem to move up out of the top of your head.You do feel very good. But I've never read a single satisfying word as regards to - what people might think is really going on. My instinct tells me that whatever it is ,its a natural phenomenon related to a change in the central nervous system, whereby older mental structures are broken down, and a clear space is created for new structures. Impressions become renewed, things seem brighter and more colourful for a while.
 
  

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