BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Warren Ellis to retire from comics?

 
  

Page: 12(3)

 
 
eddie thirteen
02:30 / 25.02.04
What bothers me is that I think comics is actually in a post-auteur era. Similar, say, to film in the '80s. Even ten years ago, in the midst of Marvel's very worst (...yet) and Image, you found a huge number of very personal, worthwhile comics projects out there. Now, quite frankly, you have a lot of garbage, which isn't new, and very little else besides, which is. To employ film metaphors yet again, scanning the graphic novels shelf at Borders, you see a vast number of Pirates of the Carribean-s, Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions-s, a shitload of Terminator 3-s, but no Lost in Translation, no Monster, and not even (and this I really do not get) a Lord of the Rings to speak of. It's like crappy, cynical, wrest-you-out-of-your-eight-bucks-plus-another-twenty-for-popcorn-and-shit, all-flash-no-substance, big budget Hollywood summer movies, all year long. Y'know, sound and fury, signifying nothing. I'm not saying everything's shit, but the medium has certainly dumbed down a lot in just the time I've been reading.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
07:43 / 25.02.04
Milligan seems content to paddle in the shallow end of gentle superhero/media satire.

Does this mean you're not reading Human Target? Dude!
 
 
sleazenation
08:14 / 25.02.04
and haven't read hewligan's harcut, skin, rogan gosh etc. etc.
 
 
rednever
14:30 / 25.02.04
I'm not saying everything's shit, but the medium has certainly dumbed down a lot in just the time I've been reading.

So basically, Comics have become like every other medium (TV, film, music, books) where 99% of the output is absolute crap, and you have to go digging for the 1% of brilliance.

I guess you could call that progress.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
15:47 / 25.02.04
We're really torn up about Ellis, aren't we?

I can't help but be extremely accepting and humored by the threadrot here, very good rot though it is. Just wanted to comment on that... and rot the thread a bit more, I suppose.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
17:38 / 25.02.04
lo and behold, I come on the defense of gentleman Ellis!

because, really, there's something smelly oozing from our ears here.
 
 
sleazenation
07:09 / 26.02.04
Eddie - I have a problem with your Hollywood analogy - mainly because it seems to assume that Hollywood=the film Industry. It also appears that you are mapping this assumption onto comics with the mainstream of Marvel and DC=the comic industry. I think there is greater variety of good films out their than your analogy suggests, many of which are coming from outside 'the mainstream' - of course this makes them harder to find. Certainly, comics and films that are produced outside 'the mainstream' are not necessarily better than those produced inside but i think there are different constraints. Many fantastic comics such as Jason Lute's Berlin, Marjane Satrapi's Persepolis and Raymond Briggs' When the Wind Blows are unlikely to have seen publication from marvel or DC, but they are all great comics that do interesting things with the form
 
 
eddie thirteen
16:39 / 26.02.04
I have a problem with the fact that my analogy reflects what, to me, seems pretty much like reality...I mean, it'd be nice if films outside of Hollywood (and comics outside of those published through Marvel and DC) reached a wide audience, but for the most part, they don't. So while they exist, and while discriminating comics fans read them, they're not as in your face as the immediately-tpb'ed ultimatized adventures of whichever character's getting a facelift this week. That innovative work is mostly to be found outside the mainstream sounds like nothing new, but in the case of corporate comics, it's a matter of regression because you actually *did* find a lot of pioneering work within the mainstream not all that long ago (just as, in the '70s, a great many of the most exciting and challenging films were coming out through major studios).
 
 
Krug
04:43 / 01.03.04
bad signal
WARREN ELLIS



If you're a superhero comics fan who follows the online
news sites, a legitimate question right now would be "What
the fuck is Warren Ellis playing at?"

Lots of people have unhelpfully forwarded me comments from
message boards this week: comments like "fucking hypocrite,"
"fuck Ellis," and my personal favourite, "hairy man-whore."
I prefer "testicle god," but there you go.

As regular readers know, back at the start of the year I was
deciding how this year should go for me. Those of you who
went and read my interview with Rich Johnston saw me thinking
out loud. Those comments included:

"...Right now, it feels like 2004 will be my last very active
year in American comics. This isn't a big splashy fuckyouall
I'm-retiring I-won't-play-Bond-again you-won't-have-Dick-Nixon-
-to-kick-around-any-more kind of thing...

"...At this stage, re-invention really means either going back
and becoming a corporate agent again, producing work in the
only genre the remaining stores seem to support and probably
placing close to the top of the mid-list -- or going and
finding something else to do. As several of my friends have
pointed out to me more than once, going back to superhero
comics would make me a lot of short-term money and boost my
visibility massively. None of which is necessarily a bad
thing. But right now (and this could change tomorrow, I don't
know) I feel like going the other way, finding something else
to do and taking myself out of the game completely..."

I think it was a few weeks later, after an email from Mark
Millar, that suggested to me that I could do all of the above.

At the time, I was working Plan B -- over the next few weeks,
I should be making announcements of work from two major
companies I haven't published with before about two big
creator-owned original jobs.

Millar emailed to basically ask for my help. He and Bendis
had gotten overbooked, the only "give" in their schedule was
ULTIMATE FANTASTIC FOUR, they were totally stuck and needed
help immediately because artist Stuart Immonen had come
available early.

At this point, you probably need to bear in mind that I've
known Millar and Bendis for years. I was probably one of
the first well-known writers to tell people that Bendis was
a genius, back when he was doing AKA GOLDFISH. I got Millar
THE AUTHORITY, and, as I said he would at the time, he eclipsed
me in moments, to the point where (as predicted) a lot of
people don't even know I *did* THE AUTHORITY. I don't know
that I'd take a bullet for them, because if they were shot I
could steal their wallets and run off, but woe betide anyone
who fucks with them on my watch. These are the good guys.

So Millar lays all this out and says, "It's a science fiction
book." Now, I did write a superhero book last year -- not
going to say what or for who, it's not out until the last
half of this year -- because I felt like trying it again, to
see if it was still hard for me (and it was). But sf, I
can do.

And you don't leave your friends in the lurch. Which is the
main reason I took the job.

Moreover -- and this is the adjustment point for people who
think they know me -- I'll do what I like.

Sure, people are going to call me sellout and hypocrite. And
hairy man-whore. I lived with that the first time around,
when I left creator-owned work in the Nineties, post-market-crash,
to go to Marvel and build an audience. I'll live with it
easier this time.

For one thing, the audience I've got goes to bookstores or
Amazon for my books, or are occasional visitors to the 200
or so comics shops that actually stock my stuff. The other
2000 stores in the Direct Market are superhero comics stores,
and so constitute their own distinct audience. It's a funny
schism -- there are an awful lot of TRANSMET readers who aren't
even aware of, say, PLANETARY, and even fewer aware of, say,
STORMWATCH, or even THE AUTHORITY. GLOBAL FREQUENCY was never
covered by magazines like WIZARD, but the MIT Media Lab did a
huge thing on it.

For another thing, I'm going to be publishing more than 500
pages of original creator-owned material this year, which is
more than pretty much anyone else in commercial comics. That
includes, according to current plans, two original graphic novels.

And I've got a network TV pilot being shot that's based on
something I created and own. And I'm writing a novel.

So, you know, if you want to call me a hypocrite, I want to
see your 1300-page original creator-owned political sf graphic
novel. I'm kind of secure about this. Moo hoo ha ha.

Funny: I don't remember anyone calling me a sellout when
I did HELLBLAZER.

It's the superhero thing, of course. I don't like most
superhero comics, and I don't like the way they've dominated
the marketplace. But, as I've said at length over the last
couple of months, the superhero comics stores have made their
choice. And, really, so have many of the creators. You can
either produce work for that market, or find a way to do the
comics you want somewhere else -- working directly with the
stores that support other material, or finding alternative
avenues.

All this put me to thinking, and I came up with a new plan.
For 2004, I'm going to do both. All of it. Like I said above
-- my last very active year in American comics, I think. And
it's going to be very active, yes. I'm going to produce work
for the superhero comics stores, and the full-service comics
stores, and the bookstores, probably internationally and
possibly for the web.

I'm 36. I can spend a year on a stunt like this.

Because it amuses me to, and because it amuses me to fly in
the faces of those who think they know me, because I'm free
to change my mind about anything and because I'll do what I
fucking like. Heh.

For those keeping track: I'm 8 scripts into JACK CROSS, three
scripts into DESOLATION JONES, more than halfway into STEALTH
TRIBES, still working on the annoyingly complex script for
PLANETARY 22 -- which is probably trying to do far too much,
but 19-25 (approx) are intended to be much denser than 13-18 --
and into my third ULTIMATE FANTASTIC FOUR script.

-- W

(COLOPHON: no, none of this is for bloody comics news websites.
Permission is NOT granted to reprint.)

---------------------

UNSUB:
http://www.flirble.org/mailman/listinfo/badsignal


---------


Kind of a loser isn't he?
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
17:20 / 01.03.04
You bet his is...

From today's LITG article
http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/?column=13

"The limits to what Marvel Knights can get away with, may well be stretched by a new signing. I understand Warren Ellis will be writing an Iron Man book for the Marvel Knights line.

Ellis declined to comment on this story."

I actually find myself WANTING to read an Ellis Iron Man, though.
 
 
eddie thirteen
20:55 / 01.03.04
Like I said when I got forwarded this mail the other week, the only thing that earns Ellis some respect here is the thing he "heh"s over, i.e. -- I can change my mind if I feel like it! I'm not really sure why he chooses to make a joke out of that (rather than the suggestion that the Fantastic Four is science fiction...I mean, I *guess* it is, in the same way that Spider-Man is, or...Superman...), when it's the one thing that seems the most honest and straightforward to me. Attempts to make his almost instantaneous return to corporate comics line up with his previous screeds just make him look silly (as does the suggestion that he was "helping" anyone by taking an instant bestseller off their hands...PS, if anyone reading this writes a comic that sold a million copies before it was even published and they just don't want it anymore, I too would be willing to engage in the early Christian martyr-style self-sacrifice that Warren Ellis outlines here and relieve you of the burden of scripting it). But I at least can accept someone saying they thought better of a hasty career decision.
 
 
Krug
03:46 / 02.03.04
What he seems to leave out is how he used to bash people who called Batman a detective or a crime comic reminding them "ITS A FUCKING SUPERHERO SHITEYES!"

So Warren, it's a fucking superhero comic, it isn't SF.
 
 
_Boboss
09:46 / 02.03.04
he should just shut up. anyone who talks about himself as much as he does is bound to end up looking like a prick. a bit of discretion and dignity would go a long way, if only he had enough talent to fill the yawning void all his tedious bravado would leave behind.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
13:29 / 02.03.04
"a bit of discretion and dignity would go a long way, if only he had enough talent to fill the yawning void all his tedious bravado would leave behind."

I wish I'd said that. This conversation is creating some creatively pointed criticisms, if nothing else.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
15:37 / 02.03.04
I also remember his 'bewilderment' when people like Morrison (and I think Bendis but as I know not of him I'll leave that aside) went off to write for Marvel when Quesada took over a few years back, it didn't occur to him that Quesada might of phoned them, needing help...

But to be honest, I really don't care that much. So he might have changed his mind. So what? It'll either be crap or it'll be good, but arguing over whether Warren should write it seems a bit pointless. I remember JMS saying he wouldn't do any more telly after Babylon 5 because that said all he wanted to say. Except there was a supposed 5 years of Crusade. And the TV movies. And Jeremiah...
 
 
lokkija
23:09 / 02.03.04
Hey there,

I am glad that at least some people feel the way I do about this switch to superheroes by Ellis. The guy is talented but for years he has bashed this genre.

Posters on other websites are so overcome with joy that Ellis is writing a Marvel superteam they completely ignore the copious amount of statements he has made for several years on how silly and worthless a genre it is.

I'm sure he will do a good job on Ultimate FF, but the previous Bad Signal sent out by him was my last as a subscriber. I just don't care what he has to say about the industry anymore. One gets the sense that he is only one movie deal away from abandoning this medium.
 
 
eddie thirteen
23:59 / 02.03.04
Just to clarify, when I talk about having "respect" for Ellis (if he were to just stick with the stance of having changed his mind), I mean it in the sense of not seeing him as a hypocrite, and as -- if you can imagine this -- less of a raving egomaniac. I *don't* mean anything about his writing abilities, which aren't too impressive. I mean, I have no interest in his superhero comics, but I don't care about anything else he writes, either. Honestly, if he didn't run his mouth so much, I'd probably just forget he ever existed.
 
 
The Falcon
01:10 / 25.03.04
Giant Warren Q & A at MillarWorld

From which he emerges rather well, I think.

My questions there are shit.
 
 
eddie thirteen
02:06 / 25.03.04
That made me feel dirty. Comics would be a very different place if the readers had a little more self-respect. The suck-up factor there kinda made me cringe a bit. I've decided it's bad for my karma to say bad things about people whose work I don't care for (they aren't hurting me or anything, y'know), so I'm officially retiring from this thread and will now bathe thoroughly.
 
 
Krug
21:32 / 22.12.05
Found this thread looking for Doom Patrol threads. It's funny how he seems to be more active than he has been in years.
 
  

Page: 12(3)

 
  
Add Your Reply