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What do women find attractive?

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13:00 / 05.01.04

Me elsewhere:

This and some other stuff lead me to speculate on what women find attractive...I came to the conclusion it's not normally "nice guys".. topic for another thread maybe...

Well? Would any female posters like to comment? I thought it might be interesting to have a bit of a discussion on this. One of the things I've noticed a lot in relationships/ attraction is there's got to be a bit of a dynamic, some tension between the two partners. Fancying someone else often seems to involve a bit of a challenge, an element of the chase for both women as well as men. Thus my comment about "nice blokes" above - If you're just amazingly nice all the time there's no challenge or interest involved. There's got to be a bit of sexual ommpph (masculinity?) from somewhere. Comments?

I'd be interested in to hear how this applies in Gay Relationships as well. I recall a gay flatmate of mine marvelling over a mutual friends new boyfriend - "now that is a man!!. He had big builders hands and a deep voice, apparently. She said "get your own".

Tryphena Absent

13:40 / 05.01.04

To put it simply, I am a nasty woman, I couldn't possibly go out with anyone who was sweetness and light personified because I'd feel like the biggest bitch in the world. Thus it's only reasonable that I go out with a man I can have a raging argument with and feel like they deserved it so as not to overwhelm myself with the shuddering guilts. A good argument gets rid of all the bad things that have been grating on you about your significant other and anything else and I don't really believe in nice guys anyway, there are okay guys and really awful guys but nice guys just tend to be repressed and competitive and I really couldn't stand that.

13:57 / 05.01.04

I was going to answer because I tend to like you, illmatic. then I wasn't gonna answer on principle, because you said "purty lil heads". grr!

then I read what you said about nice guys, and I wanted to clear that up for you. it's not nice guys that girls don't like - that's a myth that bitter assholes made up and only bitter assholes perpetuate (don't make that bitter asshole mistake!). what girls don't like is: doormats (these boys will do anyanyanyanything for you, and it's not appealing), asskissers (these boys are sickening sweet, and reek of BS), whiners (poor me, I'm SUCH a nice guy, people always take advantage of me!), and the like. these personality traits aren't desirable to anyone, except for those types of people who prey on these sad losers.

and experience tells me that any boy who ever says "I have trouble with women, because I'm too nice and girls only like jerks!" is not only dead wrong, but may likely also be harboring some misogynistic tendencies.

14:03 / 05.01.04

To put it simply, I am a nasty woman,

Then I compliment you on your social obfuscation, Tryphena. You've always struck me as a small, marshmallowy, piglety sort of a creature.

Tryphena Absent

14:06 / 05.01.04

I'm gonna make you in to marzipan boyo. Just you wait and see.

14:09 / 05.01.04

big

14:12 / 05.01.04

I always think of you as lovely and so forth, mostly cause was Anna d.L. not some Florence Nightingale type figure?

I cant cope with a straight-forward nasty bastard, nor a purely nice man. Needs a bit of both, or they're thoughroughly dull. My friend Ronan is pure loveliness, but I could never, nor have I ever known another girl to fancy him, despite him being so nice, and damn gorgeous.

Matthew Fluxington

14:12 / 05.01.04

Most women want a take-charge kind of man, who has strong immutable opinions, and will assert their intellectual and physical power in any given situation. Women want to be told what to do, and an attractive man won't be afraid to do just that. Be assertive at all times. Women need to know where it goes, and never let them forget that. Also, most women want you to take care of them and give them things. If you can't do that, then you have no business having a woman at all. It helps to keep in excellent physical condition, because women want a man who looks good naked. Having a large penis is always important, but this can be made up for somewhat if you happen to be very good looking, powerful, or wealthy. I know this all because I am a certified Life Coach.

Matthew Fluxington

14:14 / 05.01.04

Also, you may find that there are some women who say that they want a man who is intelligent and funny. This is not true. "Intelligent" is women-code for "huge wang" and "funny" is slang for "washboard abs."

14:18 / 05.01.04

I think bitchiekittie is pretty spot-on there. The whole 'girls don't like nice guys' just smacks of bitterness, and it's not true. I'm sure there are some girls who like arseholes, but do you actually know any? Among the women you know on Barbelith, for instance, are we going out with guys who 'treat us mean'? Not that I've noticed.

'He's too nice' is maybe just a way of saying you don't fancy someone. You know, like 'you're too good for me' and 'it's not you, it's me', and all those other daft lines.

14:19 / 05.01.04

Bitchiekittie - sorry, I wasn't thinking of women when I worte "Purty little heads" - I was just adding random bollocks to the topic abstract to jazz it up a bit. No sexism intended honest!! I'll change it actually, thinking about it.

I agree with you as well about the "girls only like bastards" comment. I've heard that several times and think it's bollocks, certainly when it comes down to building any kind of sustainable relationships. A justification for misogyny certainly.

I do think there can be an element of "challenge" in what makes you attractive/ what you find attractive in another - and this is sometimes expressed by people mucking each other around. After all, who are you going to find more attractive - the person who's all over you like a rash - a big old soppy rash at that - or the person who has a bit of an enigmatic air. (Makes them sound like Morpheous from Sandman, but you know what I mean).

Regrettable Juvenilia

14:22 / 05.01.04

Flux, bub, you beat me to it. Some women may say they want a boy scout, but at the end of the day, when night falls, they can't resist the call of the wild, or as I like to call it, the Call O' The Wild. Quoting Shakespeare and buying flowers is all well and good, but that sissy stuff can't compete with spiked leather and a Harley.

Matthew Fluxington

14:26 / 05.01.04

Another thing to remember, Flyboy, is that women love to get yelled at. It makes them feel special. Scream at 'em! They'll feel special, cos you're talking to them.

Tryphena Absent

14:28 / 05.01.04

The whole 'girls don't like nice guys' just smacks of bitterness, and it's not true

I totally disagree with both of you. 'Nice guy' is a myth, nice doesn't mean anything. GCSE students are told never to use 'nice' as a descriptor because it's such an apathetic word. There is no bitterness because 'nice guy' is pile of cow dung in a large green field. I have never, ever met anyone who I'd describe as 'nice guy'.

14:34 / 05.01.04

ah but sure you could see where i was going with the last one couldn't you though? but seriously

put a twinkle in your eye
dance from the hips
smile with mischief
lose the flabbiness on your waist
develop them shoulder muscles, make your back a bit broader
get good shoes. girls don't respect men with bad shoes
say 'aww' when cats/small animals/babies are around
a slap on the bum with an 'ironic' grin never hurts
stay smooth-shaven OR have a bit of soft beard growth - no stubble
say bad things about their mothers
be able to provide a modest measure of financial security, or proof that one day same will be possible
shit like 'yeah i'll go get your tampons for yer luv' is good
jokes, but not always knob jokes

most importantly of all, remember that there's nothing as weird as a girl and they will not always react in a predictable fashion. some of the above advice might not work 100%, but perseverance is key

14:35 / 05.01.04

I agree with Tryphena. It seems to me that the only definition of 'nice guy' anyone has even approached in this thread is 'a chap who is unsuccessful with women', thus making the whole exercise pretty redundant.

'Women only like bastards' is about as realistic as saying 'men only like women with enormous breasts and no brains', anyway, and sexual tension between two people isn't really related to how 'nice' or 'nasty' either of them is. I don't know what it is related to, mind you... possibly just plain old physical attraction, half the time.

14:39 / 05.01.04

To sidestep the Wit & Whatever of Flux and Flyboy for a minute, I'd add that most of my comments herein - ie last para in the post above isn't just aimed at women - I think that dynamic applies to either sex if that wasn't obvious. I hope it was fucking obvious.

Flux/Fly - what have I said to induce the pisstaking? Care to comment?

14:40 / 05.01.04

'Nice' doesn't mean anything? Of course it does. It might not be the stuff of great literature, but to most people I'd say it means a pleasant, good-to-be-around person.

Anyway.... this thread is confusing me now, because I think I actually agree with what you're saying Tryphena, just that we're saying it in different ways. And just cause it'll annoy you, you're quite nice yourself!

14:45 / 05.01.04

Flux, as usual, has it all wrong, Illmatic. Don't listen to him. Here's a secret women don't want you to know - they, and by they I mean ALL OF THEM - are willing to settle. Ever seen a slovenly, ugly guy with a Babe-O-Tron on his arm? You might think that he's as rich as Croesus Q. Trump, or hung like a grizzly bear, but it's probably not true. Women are constantly dating men that are beneath them, and if you play your cards right, you could be beneath them too, you know what I mean? Eh? Eh? The key to attracting a desirable woman (ie, someone hot) is to cultivate the illusion of potential. There's nothing women like more than a fixer-upper. Just follow these steps, and you'll be swimming in a school of minxes (or is the plural just "minx." God, chicks. that's what I meant. OK?). (1) Don't talk much. don't say anything. especially in groups. Odds are, she'll think you're deep and mysterious. then, when you're alone with her, you can talk a bit more, but be vague and allusive/elusive (chicks dig puns, too. work some in there) (2) Take up some fruity hobby, like painting or poetry or model trains. DON'T TALK ABOUT IT RIGHT AWAY. Casually allude to is (remember?) in the middle of a conversation and let it drop. After a date, you can show her your pathetic scrawls or your scale rail depot, and no matter how crappy it looks, she'll think you're up to something. (3) Think you need to go the gym? Don't bother. You can better relate to women if you develop a mild neurosis about food. NEVER LOSE THAT LAST 10 POUNDS. (4) Don't comb your hair, and don't tuck your shirt in. If your face is a little dirty, that's fine. You'll evoke a motherly reaction that's latent in even the round-the-blockiest strumpet.

And that, my friend, is the all the free life coaching you'll get out of ME.

Tryphena Absent

14:52 / 05.01.04

I suspect the thing about nice is that it's entirely subjective. Nice to one person is extremely irritating to another. So I'm glad you think I'm nice, I think you're nice too but as a generalisation it's not a good word to use.

I don't think they're taking the piss out of you Illmatic, I think they're taking the piss out of themselves. It was this sentence that gave me a clue Quoting Shakespeare and buying flowers is all well and good, but that sissy stuff can't compete with spiked leather and a Harley.

Shakespeare? Flowers?? Spiked leather??? If only.

And it wasn't obvious. You're clearly a misogynist. Get the hell out of my sight or fight for your right to... erm... be a nice guy.

Matthew Fluxington

14:53 / 05.01.04

Actually, Todd's got a really good point if what you're after is an unhappy long term relationship. If you just want chicks and lots of them, my advice is a lot better.

Regrettable Juvenilia

14:54 / 05.01.04

Honestly, Ill? I just don't know what the point of this thread is expected to be. Binary gender roles (if most of your comments apply both ways, why the title and abstract?), but otherwise so open-ended as to be hopelessly unanswerable... Does anyone really think there is an answer to be found here, other than the general "people like people to be good, but also slightly bad"?

Tryphena Absent

15:00 / 05.01.04

Threads in conversation are meant to have a point? Isn't this just meant to be a light conversation about what women go for?

15:07 / 05.01.04

Cheers Fly. I don't know what the point of it is anymore, either. If there was one to start with.... I guess, initially it was to make the point about attractiveness equating with an element of a chase or a challenge and see what people thought. I should've perhaps broadened the question on reflection - I'm didn't want it too appear like I was just trying to defend traditonal roles. I think carictures of masculinity may play a small role of the Gay Scene (to a very small degree) but that's a very different issue.

15:11 / 05.01.04

What straight women go for, Tryphena (see topic abstract and first post). (Incidentally, why is making huge generalizations about "women" a non-sexist fluff topic and talking about "white people" racist? Just because the first is in the Conversation and the second in the Headshop?)

Having said which, Illmatic, many of the lesbians I know fancy Alan Rickman, so if you're a man and you want to be attractive to a gay woman, be Alan Rickman.

solid~liquid onwards

15:13 / 05.01.04

women are scary.

Men, i understand. I understand the inclinations and influences and can accept the way most men are. but women... their so... different. Their brains are quite different from mens, they have something like 3 times the amount of connecters between their speech bit o' the brain and emotion bit o' the brain than men. The have less capacity for mathematical reasoning and problem solving. They have 20 times more sensitive skin. imagine having skin 20 times more sensitive! they dont even see the world in the same way as me, their sight is more receptive to colours and they have a better sense of smell. The have 20 times the amount of the hormone responsible for attachments to other people than men.

bizzare creatures

Matthew Fluxington

15:18 / 05.01.04

It's true, women are so weird and different that they are almost kind of gross. And their genitals make no sense!

15:20 / 05.01.04

In my experiance girls like a guy to be right. Act the fool when the time is right by all means, but when the shit hits the fan you gotta be a man. Fuck that you gotta be more than the man, you gotta be God! And when you have a fight with her dont give in, let her stick the knife in and turn it. Its sexy watching her lick the blood off her fingers. Dont be nasty to her though thats just fucking stupid. Sexual tension, I fucking love it. You have to know who you are and understand yourself, woman change thier mind so oftern its mind boggling. How can she love you if you dont even know who you are? You gotta be some sort of Zen like sexgod who can speak 'woman'. Be number one in your world.

15:20 / 05.01.04

Incidentally, I don't want to be hostile - just that the terms of this thread are set up in such a way as to be completely alien to me (eg I'm a butch, but I present as a lot more feminine than my girlfriend, who's a femme,** and there was no "chasing" going on at all, so this all looks like the colourful mating patterns of a long-lost tribe to me), so it'll take a bit of thought before I could respond in any useful way... Are you drawing a connection between 'masculinity' and 'the chase', Illmatic? That sounds interesting.

solid~liquid onwards

15:22 / 05.01.04

"their genitals make no sense" but in a good way... like jaffa cakes (beyond my comprehension)

mutual understnding in relationships would be so much easier if everyone was gay

15:30 / 05.01.04

Deva - that last part made me think of mythology, esp. Diana and the chap who got turned into a stag (Actaeon? My brain is mushy and I have no time to type), and Venus and Adonis - wasn't he a hunter? I will ponder this at home but must dash.

Must say I dislike all these posts about how strange and amusing it is that women are different to men, on ho ho, funny creatures, let us pat them on the head and ignore them as they are clearly just weird... (sttab, I am talking to you old chap, and the impression that there are 'all these posts' is probably largely due to your multiple postings, so my apologies if you feel I exaggerate).

15:54 / 05.01.04

Call me old-fashioned, but think Flux has it, to a certain extent. I can handle a 'nice' guy, as long as he is (at least slightly) controlling. Same with other girls.

15:54 / 05.01.04

Just to turn the tables (and answer Kit-Kat's point) I have enourmous breasts and no brains and I have no problem at all getting men. QED.

Matthew Fluxington

16:10 / 05.01.04

Gingerbop, do you like guys who holler at you? How about guys who make you do laundry and fold their undershirts? How about a guy who points to you, and says "you and me - NOW!"

We're The Great Old Ones Now

16:13 / 05.01.04

I think the whole Bad Guy thing tends to be about sex. Bad=promiscuous=sexy - or however you want to structure that little triangle. It probably works in a related way about women, too: Femme fatale=unchained female=sexy.

What do women find attractive? Depends on the woman, belike.

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