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Using established characthers etc.

 
 
agvvv
13:38 / 02.01.04
Inspired by the likes of the Neo-pulp manifesto, Ulysses, the musical art of sampling and the pop-art of Andy Warhol, I`ve been thinking of a new form of literature. Using established characthers in literature and popular culture(from Superman to Stephen Dedalus)we can bring some of the cinematic features into literature.

For example; take Superman and bring him into a whole new setting, outside of his own universe. Now, the Superman persona could be installed with all sorts of new characteristics, but the cultural archetype that is Superman would still be intact through the already established views on the Superman persona. This way, established characthers would be used as "actors", and their arcetypical persona would in a successful way bring forth the themes that the author had in mind.This, I think, would make for a colorfull and interesting form of literature. Kinda messy but, any thoughts?
 
 
eddie thirteen
18:17 / 02.01.04
I think this is called, often uncharitably, fanfic. Or anyway, it could be. Like most literary labels, it's more or less bullshit -- when T.C. Boyle writes a story about Lassie being seduced by a rabid coyote and turning against her masters ("Heart of a Champion," which I think originally ran in Esquire), it's some kind of sophisticated metafictional exploration of...something...but when some kid who has a boner for Faith writes a story about her and Buffy in some girl-on-girl action and posts it on the net, it's fanfic. (Elitism, anybody?) I imagine what you want to do is a little more high-minded than the latter example, but I don't think that would make it an entirely new form of literature.
 
 
agvvv
19:10 / 02.01.04
Hehe..youre right..and no, it doesn`t make it a new form of litereture. And im not trying to make one either..just trying out a new form of writing..excuse my bad wording in the previous post.
 
 
Cat Chant
11:33 / 03.01.04
their arcetypical persona would in a successful way bring forth the themes that the author had in mind.

Nice. And I do tend to think of fictional characters not so much as "people" as - sort of like tarot cards; sites on which themes or characteristics are gathered together. Exploring which is one of the things fanfic can do brilliantly.

However, I do tend to think of those cards, or sites, or gatherings of themes, as being very much tied into the universe of origin of the character - why do you want to take the characters out of their universes? That's really interesting. And can you explain what you mean by bring some of the cinematic features into literature?

I like the idea of characters as 'actors', as well. I'll have to think about that, though when I try to do so my mind keeps veering off into actorslash, which is totally a separate issue, I think, except insofar as it positions celebrities as semi-fictional and starts bringing up some interesting blurrings between fiction and RL: I have a friend who writes *NYSNC slash and one of the reasons she gives for it is that "canon" is so complex, multiple and diverse. I love the idea that the archival traces a person leaves on the world are a 'canon' of the same type as the book/TV show in which a fictional character appears; it's pretty Derridean, but also ?sort of cyberpunky?
 
 
agvvv
11:52 / 03.01.04
I would take them out of their universe to better bring forth the themes of the author, and to create an absurd feeling..or something the "cinematic feature" is the way the personas now will become actors, because they are taken out of their universe and many of their personal characteristics may be gone, only leaving the archetype..
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
23:01 / 03.01.04
Have you seen Alphaville, gmj? I think that might have some conceptual overlaps...
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
04:10 / 04.01.04
Phillip Jose Farmer did that sort of thing in some of his novels, but he just changed the names of characters like Tarzan, Doc Savage and James Bond, added things to their backgrounds he liked, and just wrote.

And, Alan Moore seems to have made a nice career out of it.
 
 
agvvv
11:00 / 04.01.04
this what youre talking about Haus? yeah, some conceptual overlaps
 
 
YNH
15:08 / 04.01.04
Anybody know what the current word on using trademarked characters is? Sorry for the threadrot. Should I start a new one somewhere?
 
 
eddie thirteen
17:12 / 04.01.04
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Um...it's complicated. Like, REALLY complicated. Huge, crazy articles have been written about it, on both sides. Generally speaking, though, if you write a Harry Potter novel and post it somewhere online, you probably won't get sued. If you write a Harry Potter novel and try to sell copies, you probably will get sued. (I presume you're asking about the legality of using trademarked characters here.)

Not all established, readily-identifiable literary characters -- not even most -- come with a fear of reprisal from the original author (or his/her estate) if you should use them, though. Like, for instance, all the characters in Moore's League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. All public domain. If in doubt, it's pretty easy to check...just look at the copyright info in the newest edition of the novel (or whatever) that features the character.

In my opinion, using the original character (without permission) of a living writer in your own stories, even if you don't seek to make a profit from those stories, is Just Not Nice. I'd make an exception for TV and comics characters that (though their originator is still kicking around) have been scripted by eleven billion different people, because -- at that point -- who cares (except for lawyers, who do care, and will sue you if you try to make money from unauthorized use of a company's "properties"). But to me, fanfic about Harry Potter, The Invisibles, Transmet, Stephen King's Dark Tower stories, and...uh...hell, I dunno, whatever else -- Danielle Steel fanfic for all I know -- seems kinda unsportsmanlike and intrusive. Not everyone feels that way, however.
 
 
Cat Chant
19:01 / 04.01.04
YNH: chillingeffects.org is a good resource for checking the mood of various companies, franchise and authors: here, for example, is the letter that got an Australian HP slash site shut down (I particularly like the distinction it draws between fanfic by "genuine fans" and sexually explicit fanfic). The legal situation will vary depending on the source character, obviously (trademarked, owned by a company, created-owned by a living individual known to dislike fanfiction, etc). I suspect that if you're looking for 'archetypes' it will be fairly easy to find a non-copyrighted character or to tweak the character sufficiently for the appearance to pass as "fair use". (Personally, I think that's cheating, but that's just me: I've always had more of a problem with fic "with the serial numbers filed off", which strikes me as plagiarism more than fanfic.)

Oops. Apologies for threadrot.
 
  
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