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Herpes 101

  
 
FinderWolf
13:08 / 30.12.03
OK, so after a few years of being almost entirely single (nothing really lasted beyond a few months), I've found someone who could be a long-term girlfriend. (I'm a hetero male.) Many things are great about this new relationship (we met about 2 weeks ago). The one thing that might not be so great is that she has herpes. (We haven't had sex yet.) Now, it's great that she told me up front before we have sex. An ex of hers gave it to her about 2 years ago. She's since dated a guy who didn't contract it from her, which was encouraging to me.

This is a little scary to me - I don't want herpes, of course. But I also really really like this girl, and I hate to think that people with herpes are forever shunned by potential partners (although believe me, this isn't a social work case, I'm not continuing to date her out of pity that no one else will because she has herpes). I'm just sensitive to the fact that she risks rejection even by telling me. However, I don't want herpes and I don't ever want to be in the position she's in now of having it and knowing that might scare people away. We're both 32 years old, who knows if we'll end up with each other long long-term? And even if you do marry someone with herpes, do you then say "Ah well, I'll most likely never have any other partners {i.e. not get a divorce or separate) so I might as well just get it or not worry so much about getting it?" Then again, I've heard how horribly painful the sores can be when they hit.

Some friends tell me this is seriously scary shit and a big risk. Others say "It's a minor annoyance, if you really like her, date her and just be careful, you won't get it if you're careful." I know that obviously I have to make the call myself and no amount of advice or anecdotes will remove the risk, slight or otherwise, that I'm taking here, but I want to be super-informed.

So off I went to all the Net herpes resources. I know about the two kinds (Herpes Simplex 1 and 2; cold sores in the mouth and genital sores), I know that there's a much higher chance of getting it when she's having an outbreak of sores (I think she only has the kind with genital sores and not the kind with cold sores). I know that she takes a pill every day that suppresses symptoms and she rarely gets outbreaks (maybe once or twice a year if that, which is also encouraging since other people who have it can get many many more and more frequent outbreaks, increasing the chance of giving it to a partner). I know also that there is a period of asymptomatic "shedding" (as they call it) for a few days before an outbreak or even once a month (I'm not really clear on this, the various FAQs and herpes websites haven't been clear on how to determine this mysterious theoretical once-a-month times where there are no sores, no outbreak but the virus is still being transmitted, more than it would be when there's no outbreak and no shedding).

And of course, I know to always use a condom (which I would anyway, herpes or no herpes). Using a condom will cut down my risk of getting it by a lot, probably by 70-80%. Of course, the catch is I might still be rolling the dice and risking getting it because condoms can't stop everything all the time (hell, they can't even always stop getting a girl pregnant!). I've also heard certain kinds of spermacidal lubricants can be used in addition to condoms to further cut down the risk of contracting any STD, including herpes, but I don't know what kinds of products there are out there for this.

I also have heard that I probably shouldn't give her oral sex, but other people say it's ok to give her oral sex except for when she has an outbreak. But what are the chances I might get it while giving her oral even if she's not showing symptoms? From what I've read and what I'm hearing from friends (who I've also consulted on the matter), the chances of getting it when the person is not having an outbreak are about 15-20%, maybe. Is this accurate? Are there any little tricks to finding out when the shedding happens without an outbreak? (Obviously, it's called asymptomatic because there are no symptoms, but I thought maybe there would be some little clue in some minor physical manifestation that tips one off? Like she gets a weird kind of headache when the asymptomatic shedding starts that tips her off because it's such a distinct feeling, or something like that?)

I know that you can get some kind of flavored saran wrap type plastic thing (sometimes they're called 'dental walls') to give someone oral if they have herpes and you want to be EXTRA sure, but that seems kinda stupid to me.

And can I get it by fingering her? (I don't think so, but no sites seem to address this either) Can I get it from her if she gives me oral (if she doesn't get the cold sores)?

All in all, this girl seems to be too great a match for me to not date her because of the herpes thing. I know many people stop dating partners once they find out the partner has herpes, but she's too good a catch to pass up, on so many levels, emotionally, things/hobbies in common, her sense of humor, the friendship/rapport we have, and of course the sexual chemistry.

Thanks in advance for your advice, your ancedotes through personal or friends' experience and your input. Peace to all in the New Year and during this holiday season!
 
 
Sax
13:22 / 30.12.03
Have you asked her all these questions? After living with it for two years, she might know.

But be careful; it can be quite serious. We wouldn't want you to be a goner, here.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
13:43 / 30.12.03
Well if you were English I'd tell you to go and see a GP and talk to them about it. That's what I'd do but my GP is a middle aged man and I do take a slightly sadistic thrill from demanding contraceptives off him.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:56 / 30.12.03
I'm going to speak in more detail with her about it when she returns (she's been out of town for the past week and a half, she left a few days after she told me to see family for the holidays, and I don't want to interview her about herpes specifics over the phone, it seems like a conversation best had in person).

I'll ask her specifically what she did with the previous partner who didn't get herpes. She basically said 'always use a condom and be very very careful, we won't have sex when I have the sores.' But thankfully, it seems she gets outbreaks very rarely. I did the research and came up with all these specific questions after she left.

I did ask her in person (minutes after she told me) if I could get it by fingering her, she responded that she didn't know, which surprised me since I would have thought she'd have exhaustive knowledge of it by now, much like you said, Hessian.

What do you mean 'quite serious' and 'goner,' Hessian? Are you being sarcastic? To my knowledge, the worst that happens is really bad painful sores that hurt a lot and make it painful to urinate.

I do plan on talking to my doctor as well. (also a GP even though I'm not English)
 
 
Sax
14:12 / 30.12.03
Sorry, HW. I don't really think you can die from it. Ignore me.
 
 
gravitybitch
14:47 / 30.12.03
Sounds like you've done your research pretty thoroughly.

A lot of your questions seem to fall into the category of, "Ohmygod, this is new and scary and potentailly dangerous. EEEK! I need reassurance..." The best reassurance is conversation with people with experience, and just getting used to the idea.

I've dated girls with herpes without any (viral!) difficulty, have no qualms about giving oral sex to somebody who gets coldsores or receiving oral sex from somebody who has the occasional genital outbreak (either gender). (Sex during an active outbreak, however, just seems foolish...)

The big problem is the uncertainty about any virus - they're sneaky little buggers. Everything depends on how a particular virus interacts with a particular person's immune system. Some folks just aren't susceptible, some folks get one huge and nasty outbreak and never have a problem after that, some folks get somewhat regular little outbreaks... Some folks get regular coldsores but have had only one genital outbreak. Her experience is what's important here.

Meanwhile, herpes is not a death sentence of any sort. I'd say that it should be a practical concern, like preventing pregnancy, but shouldn't be a make-or-break point in whether you let this relationship flower. My standards for risk-assessment are a little different, though - I work with nasty chemicals and the occasional radioactive stuff. YMMV...
 
 
FinderWolf
15:09 / 30.12.03
Spot on about my wanting reassurance, izza. Thanks very much for your post and your observations. I do feel I've researched it quite well, there's just that small x-factor of the risk involved. I will have more extensive conversations with the young lady in question about her history and manifestations of it, and bottom line, I really really like this girl, so the fear of a 15% chance of getting herpes won't stop me here.
 
 
Mr Tricks
16:46 / 30.12.03
I knew a fellow who faced a similar situation only to find out that he already had herpies himself. Extensive research on his part resulted in a great effort to alter his diet... I don't quite recall the few details he offered outside of the effort to exclude wheat and yeast product from his diet. Apparently the presence of these food-substances in the body fostered the presence of herpies sores.
His attitude was that a properly sdjusted diet would both reduce the impact of living with the herpies virus as well as the chances of transmitting it to another...

Sorry that I can't off much more than that hearsay... perhaps it may open an avenue for research that you and your new companion may explore together...
Good luck
 
 
gravitybitch
00:37 / 31.12.03
Interesting. I'd never heard that about yeast or wheat.

Chocolate and nuts seem to be big culprits in bringing on or worsening an outbreak (an ex-room-mate of mine went through female hell on a somewhat regular basis - herpes flare-ups seemed to coincide with her period, just when she needed chocolate the most!).
 
 
gingerbop
12:46 / 31.12.03
I have nothing of use to say, but good luck with it all; she sounds like a lovely girl. And happy new year. x
 
 
Mr Tricks
17:09 / 31.12.03
Interesting. I'd never heard that about yeast or wheat.

Appariently there are a large number of people who are actually allergic to wheat but are unaware of it... attributing symtoms to a varietly of other reactions. That in itself may be a factor.

I understand this to be the case with yeast to a lesser degree as well.

Still, my friend was very excited about the positive effects gained from excluding wheat from his diet... having done so for a time myself I could agree... It is an effort to do so however... BREAD is quite addicting yum
 
 
netbanshee
20:19 / 31.12.03
I dated someone for about two years who had herpes. Had a conversation about it during the beginning of our time together and everything worked out (well, not contracting the STD anyway). Seemed that open dialogue and being aware of whether or not a breakout was about to occur went a long way to making me feel safe and comfortable with her. She took her daily med for it and probably averaged a flare-up maybe once to twice a year. Seemed that big stresses was her main trigger.

It seems like it can be a big deal at first, but access to good information (Mom's a nurse for quite some time) and general awareness does a lot to put one at ease. Good luck and go get her tiger...
 
 
FinderWolf
01:38 / 02.01.04
Ban-Shee, how did you have indications as to when a flare-up was possibly about to occur? Were there any more specific clues other than the 'times of big stress for her' you mentioned?

And thanks again to everyone for posting their thoughts here - I really appreciate it. Best wishes to all for 2004.
 
 
netbanshee
02:58 / 02.01.04
If I remember correctly, I think one gets the general impression that all is not right in the region when a breakout is going to occur. I think a general soreness and awareness of it. It's not like you'll be in contact with the condition before anyone is aware of it. So steering clear for a short time and being supportive seems to be the best course of action.

I was with this person during college and big times of stress generally came from final critiques and the like. It didn't seem to come out of dormancy at random either. More of a personal pattern that allowed it to manifest. I'm sure that the girl in question knows a bit about that.

So, overall, it became a non-issue with me and enjoyed my self for a time. Best o' luck.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
09:36 / 02.01.04
I know NOTHING about herpes. But shouldn't be a make-or-break point in whether you let this relationship flower seems like the best (non-medical) advice thus far. The fact that she's told you about it, knowing it might put you off, to me would indicate that this is a relationship worth pursuing, and that, being that there DO seem to be (from what other people have said) ways around it, pursued it fucking well should be!

My (probably) worthless advice- find out all you can. Not just from us imaginary people (who could well be full of shit), but from maybe a doctor or something (as you've already said). Take care and you should be okay. Oh yeah, happy new year to you as well.

Good luck!
 
 
gornorft
11:13 / 02.01.04
I went out with a girl for about 2 years, never used a condom (we got engaged, children wouldn't have been a bad thing anyway we thought), I gave her oral sex a lot and then, suddenly, she stopped wanting to have sex. I thought I'd done something wrong, or that she was sleeping around (happened to me before so why not think that), or she'd just gone off me or something. The relationship almost died because of this until she came clean and told me she had herpes and it had been flaring up for about a month. That explained it but also scared me!

I went to an STD clinic and got checked, I was fine. They told me that it's not communicable unless it's "active" and that these active periods become further and further apart the longer a person has it. With this girl, she'd had it about 10 years and it only showed itself about every 2 years by that time.

If you want to be with this person, herpes isn't a reason not to be in my experience.

When they turn psychotic though, now that's another story!
 
 
FinderWolf
14:18 / 02.01.04
Oh, make no mistake, I'm totally going to continue dating this girl. She's far to terrific to pass up because this minor thing.
 
 
Miss Kiss
21:50 / 02.01.04
I guess it's nice of you to keep dating this girl, but I'd personally never knowingly sleep with someone with herpes. Ew! Herpes is so gross. No thank you!
 
 
FinderWolf
18:00 / 07.01.04
Thanks for everyone's input here. Much appreciated!
 
 
FinderWolf
13:55 / 13.01.04
UPDATE: things are going well, we hit a slight snag:

I had sex with her for the first time and it was fine - although we did have a slight conflict when she got a little ffended/disappointed that I was taking literally all the instructions to wear a condom pretty much for most of foreplay to prevent getting herpes. She wasn't overly selfish or manipulative about it, but at first she was like "you don't need a condom unless you're inside me", and I was like "that's not what I read in my research, I want to be as careful as possible so I don't get it," and she was like "but if you are so tense about pressing against me there even for a few minutes without a condom then it makes me feel like you see me as one big virus," and I was like "hey, I want to be very very careful," and basically we found a happy medium compromise where I loosened up about it a little bit.

And it is true that I'm taking a risk just by sleeping with her, and that even wearing a condom all the time for all of foreplay leaves a chance I could get it somehow, so I guess it's fair to say I shouldn't get too stressed, obsessive or meticulous about the minutae of it. But I also think she's a little wrong to say "you can only get it if you're inside me", since that's contrary to pretty much everything I've read. However, she wasn't bitchy or manipulative about it. But it was also clear that if I was like "the minute my penis is exposed and remotely within contact of your gentalia, the condom goes on", she would feel contaminated and rejected and insecure. So the happy medium was accomplished, although I
am curious to research more and see if what she said was true (but I know that even more research can't provide a definitive answer one way or the other, so I'm not going to obsess about it).
 
 
The Apple-Picker
15:13 / 13.01.04
No, what she says isn't true. Herpes is a skin virus. It isn't spread by semen or vaginal fluids. That's why there's a slightly greater risk that even with a condom you could contract the virus than if she had something else that was transmitted by fluids. Condoms don't cover all the skin that comes in contact during sex. Since herpes can show up outside her vagina... well, you can contract the virus by coming in contact with the parts of her skin that display the symptoms of the virus. She sounds like she needs to read up a little more. But you two sound like you've reached a way to deal with it that will probably keep you healthy and will probably keep her from feeling like a pariah. Best wishes to you both.
 
 
FinderWolf
17:55 / 13.01.04
That's exactly what I thought, Apple-Picker - I'm gonna have to get a link or net quote to prove it to her. (Did you take this fact from a particular source, Apple?) But you're right, the bottom line is about finding a medium that doesn't make her feel like a mutant but also keeps me feeling like I'm taking all reasonable precautions. Thanks very much for your input!!
 
 
Tamayyurt
18:44 / 13.01.04
I also don't have anything to offer besides what I already said about getting as much information as you can and giving the girl a chance if she's as great as you keep saying (which is cute by the way)... and you seem to be doing both so all I have say is "good luck."
 
 
01
19:12 / 13.01.04
I wouldn't worry too much about the herpes thing, unless she has quite a few outbreaks. That can cause a damper on things, because it takes a while until the sores have run their course and everything is back in order. I have herpes myself and my girlfriend and I have been together for over 7 years. We don't use condoms and we engage in oral sex. During this whole time she has not contracted herpes. The only problems it has caused us is when I do have the odd outbreak and we're unable to have sex (and there's ways around that as well ie, mutual masterbation with absoutely no touching) or the reservations she has that she might get it one day. Basically the trick is to have trust and to communicate. Luckily I don't get many outbreaks, maybe once a year when the weather changes like right now actually, I'm just coming off one (damn barbeloid synchronicities...). I find the best way to reduce the amount of outbreaks is positive visualisation. I'm being 100 percent truthful here. It works. Fuck the drugs. They say that alot of times herpes outbreaks are caused by the stress of getting those outbreaks. I have found that when I feel like an outbreak might be coming on, (there will be an increase in itchiness in said area), I visualize an army attacking the virus and surrounding it and containing it. Sounds crazy but it works. Nine times out of ten the initial symptoms will go away and I will not get an outbreak. This time is the most crucial though. You don't want to be having intercourse or being in contact at all with the affected area. Herpes is most likely to be transmitted in this initial stage when you can't really see any sores yet. She will know if she gets that itch and when it happens, intercourse should be avoided like the plague until everything is all clear. Also, while she is having an outbreak she should be use her own towels and wash her hands like she has Obsessive compulsive disorder. Well not really that much, but enough anyways. The virus can only flourish in the genital area or on the mouth area. While you can't get an outbreak on your hands, your hands can transmit the virus to another area. ie you finger her and then masterbate.
Hope this stuff helps. The bottom line is that it's not the end of the world be anymeans and you can have just as good sex or better than people that don't have herpes. Don't worry about all those dental dams and other nonsense. The best solutions are communication and trust and restraint when an infection does flare up.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:31 / 14.01.04
Thanks, 01. Very sound advice, and I've learned a lot from this thread overall (although I'll still always use a condom). But the visualization stuff will come in very handy. I really appreciate you posting about this.
 
 
Mr Messy
16:55 / 14.01.04
This is obviously a bit of a worry for you, and I'm not sure how to help you out here, but I think relaxing will be of benefit to both of you.
About 1 in 4 people have some form of herpes. It's extremely common. If you do get it, you won't die. It may well be painful for a bit, but the symptoms won't last for ever. You'll just be part of a big big club.
I'm afraid I'm feeling unable to express myself correctly this morning, but it seems unhealthy to focus exclusively on infection prevention during sex. The more preferable associations (for me anyway) would be intimacy, enjoyment, lust, love. We live in a culture devoted to sanitisation and cleanliness, but life isn't like that. Decide what you are going to do to try and prevent getting herpes and then don't think about it anymore. If you get it, you'll deal with it. It really won't be the end of the world. Otherwise, enjoy your relationship.
 
 
FinderWolf
15:20 / 16.01.04
Very true, Mr. Messy, and very good advice. You hit on a theme I've been thinking about a lot lately - I'm gonna be more relaxed about it from now on. (I mean that sincerely) Thanks very much for posting.
 
  
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