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Buying a new PC

 
 
Bear
09:32 / 29.12.03
So I've decided it's time I bought a new PC since my laptop is a bit shit now (anyone want to buy a great laptop?)

So I thought I'd ask on here to see if anyone knows of any good deals online and the like.

At the moment I'm thinking either PCWorld (which I'm sure I'll get slagged for) which has a pretty decent kit for 999 (3gz,512mb,17"tft) or making a kit from tcpcsystems.co.uk...

Just wondering if anyone knows of any other sites that let you pick and choose bits and pieces...

Probably don't want to spend much more than a grand.... Anyone?
 
 
doglikesparky
11:04 / 29.12.03
overclockers.co.uk should see you right for individual components, they also offer impartial advice which can't be bad.

And consider yourself suitably slagged off for PC World.
 
 
Baz Auckland
14:17 / 29.12.03
...speaking from my purchase last year of a new PC, make sure you get a separate video card and not an integrated chip. Mine came with the chip, I bought a cheap 32MB card last week, and my computer speed has about tripled as a result...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:20 / 29.12.03
I got my last desktop from Micro Anvika, which was OK, and my last laptop from Multivision, which takes a while to deliver but had good prices for the kit, and allows a fair degree of customisation.

Nethighstreet I've heard good things about, and also allows you to pick and choose a lot of customisation options...

If you are looking to spend about a grand, it might be worth looking at the Compaq refurbs at Morgan, which will give you a decent bang for your buck, although you'll need to get a screen as well...
 
 
Tezcatlipoca
20:40 / 29.12.03
...speaking from my purchase last year of a new PC, make sure you get a separate video card and not an integrated chip

Harken to the Baz, for he speaks an imperial truth. If by some disastrous quirk of fate you find yourself lumbered with a machine containing onboard graphics (and/or onboard sound, for that matter), make sure you disable them and use proper dedicated cards. You will notice the difference.

With respect to price, and assuming you or someone you know is reasonably PC savvy, it is probably going to be cheaper to build yourself a new bit of kit. I built my machine, which is probably mid-range by now, for about £350-£400 (against £699.99 from PC World for a machine of the same specifications), which makes for a considerable saving. Maplin Electronics is a good place to start for self-builds, as they almost invariably have a motherboard/processor deal each month.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
15:56 / 30.12.03
Bear

There's a shop in Tooting - Staples Computing - who will do custom builds at a reasonable rate. I've been going to them for upgrades etc. for well over a decade now and they are great when it comes to aftercare, customer support, etc. I'd reccomend them over the big box-shifters any day.

Building yr own is indeed a good option unless you are like me, a bit "all thumbs" about electronics (I once managed to blow out my graphics card when trying to install a cd-burner).
 
 
Smoothly
16:11 / 30.12.03
Speaking of video cards, it appears that my *cough*integrated*cough* 128MB GeForce4 MX is laughably out of date for gaming purposes. Can anyone recommend an upgrade?
 
 
Tezcatlipoca
19:33 / 30.12.03
Speaking of video cards, it appears that my *cough*integrated*cough* 128MB GeForce4 MX is laughably out of date for gaming purposes. Can anyone recommend an upgrade?

Well, it really depends on how much you're prepared to spend. For gaming, the type (GeForce) and memory size (128MB) is fine, it's just the fact that it's onboard which is causing underperformance as it drains resources from the processor. You can pick up a GeForce FX5200 (128MB) for about £60 now, which I find more than adequate, especially if your processor is 2Ghz or above. Whatever you decide, just make sure you go for an AGP card and not a PCI card (checking first, of course, that your motherboard has an AGP slot). Don't worry about the AGP speed, the card will clock down to the motherboard speed. As you mention gaming purposes, you're presumably aware that a decent amount of memory is just as important as a good graphics card, right? For that, I'd recommend at least 512MB of double density RAM.
 
 
topical b
22:11 / 30.12.03
try sys.com

i got my workstation there, it has worked fine for 3 years now and the sales people are reasonable, customer service is prompt and competent.
 
 
Smoothly
10:52 / 31.12.03
Thanks Tez, that's sound advice. I've got 512MB of DDR 333 RAM, and an Athlon 2500+, but it seems that even the nForce2 motherboard does little to compensate for the lack of dedicated graphics. It's supposed to be DirectX 9 compatible, but struggles with SimCity 4, and has raised the white flag at the first sniff of the latest Age of Empires. I thought it was going to be a choice between the Radeon 9600 and the FX5600, but it sounds like that might be over-egging things.

I trust that these things are pretty straight forward to install - even for someone who, right now, wouldn't recognise an AGP slot from any other? Is it easy to see if I've got one?

And Bear, I'd second the Multivision recommendation. They were certainly the best value for money when I was looking 6 months ago.
 
 
Tezcatlipoca
11:24 / 31.12.03
Your memory and processor are absolutely fine for gaming, Weaving. I'm reasonably familiar with the nForce chipset on your motherboard as well, which is more than capable of everything you need it to be. As I said in my last post, it sounds as though the only thing holding you back is your onboard graphics setup, which isn't bad in itself, it just drains so many resources from the processor that it performs very badly.

AGP cards are ridiculously easy to install, especially with everything being Plug&Play compatible now. Just open up your PC and look for 4 or 5 identical white - or cream - coloured card slots. These are your PCIs, which take everything from Sound Cards to Modems. Just above these should be a slightly different slot, normally coloured red or brown. You can't miss it, it's the only slot like it on the motherboard and it has a moveable clip on one end. That's your AGP. Just slip your new card in, close the clip, start the PC, use the disc to install the driver software, and you're done. Remember also that it's pretty much essential to visit the manufacturers website after the initial installation to get the latest drivers. This will ensure maximum performance and compatibility. Oh, and it's vital to enter BIOS at the bootup and turn your onboard graphics off, otherwise the two chipsets may compete for resources.

As to type, it's entirely up to you, but if I were in your position I'd go for the GeForce. That's partly from brand loyalty, but chiefly from the fact that your nForce motherboard and the GeForce chipsets are both made by nVidia (whereas the Radeon is made by ATI). It shouldn't make a difference, of course, but it has been known that occassionally the one chipset type really doesn't like talking to the other, which can cause conflicts, so I'd stick to the one chipset type.
 
 
Bear
08:27 / 02.01.04
Thanks for all this people, all the sites have been checked out. I just have to wait until Monday so they top boss can sign my loan application...

I'm so looking forward to having a new PC...
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
08:48 / 02.01.04
As far as I can tell, a GeForce 4 MX doesn't handle pixel shading (whatever that may be... it sounds awfully clever, though)... which means you can play pretty much any current game on it EXCEPT the forthcoming (and sure to be wonderful) Deus Ex: Invisible War. Bugger.
 
 
Tezcatlipoca
10:56 / 02.01.04
Well, you don't actually need a card capable of pixel shading, it would just make things a lot prettier if you do (at the cost of some performance, of course). Besides, all the cards in the GeForce FX range come with it as standard now anyway, and they're so cheap that there's no real reason to not get one.
Oh, and Stoatie, the question isn't whether you can run DE2, it's whether you'd want to. Have you seen the demo?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:53 / 02.01.04
(offtopic slightly)I rather liked the demo - everything looks terribly pretty, and you can have great fun taking different routes; setting fire to people is even more fun than in DX1 also. However, it did inspire me to dig out DX1, which certainly scores on the complexity of inventory management and, I suspect, in a more textured world (and apparently a far longer story). There is apparently a lot less reading matter kicking around in DX2, as well, which would be aterrible shame; although the world of DX1 was incredibly derivative, it was also massively detailed.

The universal ammo may be quite a good thing - my attempts to play through DX without hurting anyone were always hampered by not enough tranq ammo or prod charges, leaving you reliant on sneaking up to people and whacking them repeatedly with a baton, and thus prone to frustration and warbastardry.

DX1 is still giving me new stuff, bless it (although the linearity of the narrative is something I'm interested to see developed in DX2, which claims to be much more open-ended): like trying out little things like following Walton Simons into the interrrogation room after your first meeting and finding a whole scripted scene playing out that doesn't affect the game in any way except how you feel about the NSF and UNATCO... it's top.

Also, Anna Navarre is HOTT. Oh yes.

(Back on topic) Meanwhile, I have a tech question. My desktop is an old Fujitsu-Siemens SCALEO 400, w/ a 1.8Ghz Celeron processor and onboard graphics. I sped things up by whacking in another 256MB of RAM, but I'm thinking about upgrading the processor. Regrettably, F-S appears reluctant to tell me what the motherboard is and what it is capable of supporting. Anyone got any ideas?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
04:24 / 03.01.04
No, can't get the demo to run... it appears you actually DO need pixel shading. Couldn't they have just put an option to tur it off?
 
 
Tezcatlipoca
06:53 / 03.01.04
it appears you actually DO need pixel shading

Deus Ex 2 minimum demo specs, as released by Ion Storm:

COMPUTER: IBM PC or 100% compatible
OPERATING SYSTEM: Microsoft Windows 98SE/ME/2000/XP (95/NT not
supported)
CPU: Intel Pentium® III 1.2 GHz (or AMD Athlon equivalent)
RAM: 256Mb
GRAPHICS: 100% DirectX 8.1 compatible 32 MB [my italics]
SOUND: Windows 98SE/2000/XP compatible Sound card (100% DirectX 9.x
compatible)
CD-ROM: Quad-speed (4x) CD-ROM drive
HARD DRIVE: 400 MB free disk space (DEMO ONLY)
INPUT DEVICES: 100% Windows 98SE/2000/XP mouse and keyboard

No mention of pixel shading required, even in the recommended specs. I tired turning pixel shading off on my card and still manged to run the demo. Do you have the latest drivers for your card, Stoatie? And the latest DirectX?


(Back on topic) Meanwhile, I have a tech question...

You need to know the chip socket type before being able to determine the fastest processor you can slot into it. You could check it with Bios, but for an easy free windows based solution, I recommend downloading and running Aida32, which can tell you pretty much everything you always wanted to know about your system (but were too afraid to ask). Once you know the motherboard type, you should be able to go to the manufacturer's website and check the specifications of the board. It'll list a CPU socket type there, which in turn with determine which family of processors you can slot into it.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:43 / 03.01.04
Dude! Of course! I have AIDA on my laptop, but just didn't think to put it on my desktop. God bless you, you tech-literate wonderthing, you.

I guess possibly the demo can't have pixel shading deactivated... it wouldn't run on my (64MB intergrated) desktop, but was fine with my ATI-equipped laptop...

Of ocurse, I don't actually *need* a faster computer, or a graphics card. This one works fine, and would work better if I took an axe to the startup settings. I'm just being avaricious.
 
 
Oresa delta 20
12:00 / 03.01.04
Ummm, i know you're probably not going to buy anything from PCWorld, after all this advice, and quite right too. The bastards will try their best to fuck you out of every penny you have. Trust me (HA!!), i used to work there as a sales advisor. If you do decide to get something from them, and you're paying for it up front, the best way to avoid them pressuring you into taking their expensive and useless insurance policy is to tell them that you work in the armed forces, and that you have "kit cover" to protect you against anything that goes wrong. Either that, or tell them that you're a millionaire, and don't mind paying full price for a new one if the one you're getting breaks. They don't get trained on how to reply to either of those excuses. Oh, and after you buy it, just before you leave the store, turn around, unzip, and piss all over the greedy bastards for me. cheers
 
 
Bear
10:35 / 05.01.04
Ok this is what I'm going for, opinions would be good (hate to think I was getting ripped off when spending so much)



P4 3.6ghz
1gb memory
120gb hardisk
CD reader/writer DVD reader/writer (combined)
17" TFT
5.1 Surround Sound, Soundcard
256mb GeForce Fx5200 8xAGP

For £1060 including tax and delivery....

What do people think?
 
 
Tezcatlipoca
14:02 / 05.01.04
Hmmm, that's about average for a pre-made system of those specifications. That said, you are making big savings on the monitor (since a new 17" TFT easily costs half of what you're paying for the entire setup), and the DVD rewriter. You've also got a decent graphics card, and 5.1 sound is definitely a bonus, so I'd say you've got a reasonable deal there.
 
 
Bear
14:08 / 05.01.04
Cool

The price for TFT monitors really is mad isn't it, are they really that new? Changing the premade choice from standard to tft creates a huge jump in price.

I just got my loan approved a few minutes ago, it's a deal with work so I'll be paying it off out of my wages for 2 years (just in case anyone thinks I have that sort of money to burn!)
 
 
Tezcatlipoca
14:53 / 05.01.04
The price for TFT monitors really is mad isn't it, are they really that new?

No, they're just very costly to make, which keeps the price up. They're also fashionable now, which also keeps things costly.
 
 
Bear
08:36 / 28.01.04
So nice, so shiny



Happy
 
 
Bear
08:38 / 28.01.04
and the pic is too big... maybe I should remove... not that anyone will look anyway, it's not like any of you care... poor bear, poor poor bear...

oh yeah ignore the horrible room and desk, being worked on - honest....
 
 
Olulabelle
09:51 / 28.01.04
You seriously need to put some inspiring pictures up on your wall, Bear.

And mess your desk up a little bit.
 
  
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