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Religious clothing in French schools

 
  

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Ganesh
16:09 / 19.12.03
No, but there may be some benefits to their having access to a relative "void", spiritually speaking, in terms of their formal schooling - or, rather, a forum where one can learn about and experiment with a variety of belief-systems.
 
 
Jack Fear
16:46 / 19.12.03
Yeah, 'nesh, but they're getting that already, aren't they? The whole point of the legislation is to ban religious clothing in public schools, i.e., schools that are, by definition, pluralistic and non-religious.

It's not like these girls are going to madrassas: if they were, the headscarves would be a non-issue.

The American experience shows that public schools are the real melting-pot of a society of immigrants, the place where you are exposed to notions--and people--that challenge you. Thank God for the separation of church and state, and all that.

And it cuts both ways. Let's flip the script, here: might not an immigrant student's headscarf prompt a French-born Catholic (or agnostic) student to learn more about Islam than s/he reads in the tabloids?
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
07:13 / 20.12.03
Bit concerned by what appears to be an assumption that all Muslim women don't genuinely want to wear the headscarves and are forced to by the evil controlling conspiracy of their parents... I think talking about whether the children now have free will is a bit of a red herring as of course the parents were once children too, and their parents, and their parents and their... There's simply no way to tell how many Muslims become 'lapsed'.
 
 
Lurid Archive
07:40 / 18.02.04
OK, so it looks like this is going ahead, but not without some protest.

Still, opinion is divided. Read this article for a defnece of the ban from a former Iranian activist.
 
 
hoscar
07:15 / 16.04.04
dear peoples,
This has got to be one of the most philosopical issues out there. I'm sure Plato would have loved this issue. Time may be the only true judge on this question,after all. Basically, after thinking about it for quite a number of years, I think that the French are probably right. Having just said that, I now feel what Solomon must have felt when he had to decide on the issue of the divided baby. This is also an issue which will divide the country also. There are a number of students who attend the many schools that I teach in Sydney's outer western satelites,that do indeed wear headscraves.These children are generally withdrawn and do not fit in well with the other students. Unfortunately, students are not immune from prejudice, especially when you put yourself apart from them. There are over thirty different cultures represented in the current school that I'm in at the moment. I make a real effort to talk with these kids as it has been an issue here for a number of years. I asked a girl last week, 'if she thought that it was a good idea to wear a scarf'. She said that it probably wasn't. So at least for schools I think that she is right. So maybe the adults should ask a few more children how THEY feel. There is no defining ethnic group in our school. They subsequently take on the culture of their idols, i.e., the music, the movies and the media. As far as that idol is concerned, It's not cool to be a muslim. At least until O'Sama and his band has gone away, I think that we are placing too much psychological trauma on these children. However the question with adults is still unresolved. I think it may be O.K. HENRY.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
10:38 / 16.04.04
And are these kids you teach naturalised Australian citizens or immigrants? Do you not have any kids who don't wear headscarves that are shy and withdrawn? Why do you consider being shy and withdrawn to be an important factor? Lots of kids can be shy, not all of them grow up particularly maladjusted < nervous twitch > < spasm >
 
 
Jester
13:19 / 16.04.04
Hmm... This is a really difficult one, and I can't help feeling that it's because it is pulling at two different and not always compatible western/liberal beliefs and ways of thinking about morality.

The first being that we are individuals, that we are all equal, and the second being that religious freedom is a human right. Although in a sense, the second should be a function of the first, it's true that religion doesn't necessarily allow for this.

Religion, as someone has pointed out, is incredibly intolerant of other religions and/or aetheism. I think the real difference is that someone who is religious tends to think that someone of another religion, or none, is somehow morally corrupt (hence going to hell or equivilent). *Some* aetheists *may* think religious folk are a bit silly, but nothing more than that.

Overall, I reakon the idea of this ban is a bad one. I suspect there may be some underlying racism behind it, at least at some level.

But I also can really appreciate the idea of a completely secular school system.

As far as the legal issue goes: I rather suspect that it is considered justified on the basis of the secular nature of the French state as a whole. I rather suspect that secularism is considered a kind of 'right' and 'freedom' in France.

Bill Posters: Which muslim countries have female heads of state? I've never come across any mention of that? Bearing in mind, in some muslim countries it is illegal for a woman to go out without a man with her, I'm rather surprised. Any examples that go against that impression are very welcome, of course
 
 
Axolotl
13:33 / 16.04.04
Jester here are some examples of female muslims in high positions of authority:
This goes right back through history, but includes plenty of mondern day examples.
 
 
Char Aina
19:24 / 16.04.04
*Some* aetheists *may* think religious folk are a bit silly, but nothing more than that.


i dont agreree.
i think a lack of focus for the 'aethist community', if such a thing could even be said to exist, lends itself to hiding the fact that many aethists have exceptionally intolerant beliefs.
the tendency to view opinions that are different to our own as suspect(especially ideas that are ridiculous when viewed through the lens of our own beliefs) is all too human, and many aethists are not immune.
 
 
Jester
20:37 / 16.04.04
That's true Toksik, but it's the nature of the aetheist 'belief system' that you're not specifically condemning people who don't share your point of view.

It's totally true that many aetheists can be intolerant of people that are religious. I'm probably conscious of that myself, sometimes, I'm sorry to say It's about someone's belief system clashing with your own, essentially.

Actually, I think the same thing often happens in politics: which is just as much to do with morality and world view as religion is.
 
 
Jester
20:45 / 16.04.04
And Phyrephox, thanks for the link to the history of Muslim women in power, that was really cool I knew nothing about that. *Goes off to educate herself*
 
  

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