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A question for the writers who hang around on the board

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03:20 / 07.12.03

This kinda springs from a discussion of pens in the late shift. I'm curious about the people on the board who write, either professionally or independently, and their physical process.

How do you start out? Pencils, pens? Notebooks or napkins, composition books, blank journals? Does anyone still use a typewriter, or is it all computers and the occasional word-processor?

What do you find most effective when you're starting out with something new? Is there anything in the way you execute the physical process of writing which seems to lead to better/faster/more interesting results?

05:27 / 07.12.03

When I have a clear idea what I'm doing I sit at the computer, but when I'm figuring something out, either at the start or when I've gotten hung on something, I have a tiny writing desk in my bedroom. It faces into the corner so there's nothing to distract me. There's a bookshelf behind the desk that I throw all the half-used school notebooks, cheap sketchpads that I decide I don't like drawing in, legal pads stolen from temp jobs, etc, into, and I write in those with $2/pack ballpoint pens.

05:56 / 07.12.03

What I've started doing is keeping a livejournal that's friends only, with no friends added. Then I can keep track of how often I'm writing, and do writing excercises without saving to my computer's hard drive.

08:49 / 07.12.03

Non-fiction:

For planning, I use any kind of hand-held writing instrument on any kind of surface. Mechanical pencil on ruled notebook preferred, but I don't mind walls, hands, chalk, or a dirty finger. This process is often incredibly non-linear, may involve diagrams and sketches, and definitely involves all kinds of arrows. When I'm done, I generally have a good idea of how many paragraphs I'll have (for a short piece) and what will go in each one. For a long piece, I'll often break it up into bits and plan each one seperately--sort of a multi-stage planning process.

When I get down to the real business of writing, I use MS Word or something similar. I can't stand not being able to move my text around and insert sentences into the middle. I guess there's a non-linear aspect here, too, and a word-processor helps it turn into a linear product with the smallest possible number of drafts.

Fiction:

I mull an idea around for days or years, then sit down at the word-processor and let it come out. Then I go back and revise an infinite number of times (i.e. I don't publish my fiction). There's something wrong with this process, and I think my paranthetical lament provides a clue.

Whisky Priestess

11:01 / 07.12.03

I used to be a hardcore fountain pen and lined paper girl, but that was only for writing essays because (a) I didn't start writing fiction until I was about 22 and (b) I didn't have a computer till I was 24. 24! It's like I was living in a thrid-world country!

But these days I write almost everything (with the possible exception of poetry) straight onto the computer in Word. Poetry is the only thing I can write on the fly, and I use a pencil and notebook/back of bits of paper. Although when I was trying to complete a script for a deadline and couldn't use my laptop on the plane I bought a pad and pen and wrote 40 pages on the flight back to the Uk. Rock'n'roll!

The Apple-Picker

12:35 / 07.12.03

I try to carry a pen and small notebook all the time so that when a good line or a good image or a good metaphor comes to mind, I can catch it. Occasionally, I'll do some drafting with pen and paper, but that seems to be less frequent now. That's when a whole first draft comes to me all at once. I use a microcassette recorder sometimes, too. The problem with that is that I've recorded over a rough draft before and that was very disappointing.

When I freewrite, I try to always use my typewriter. The computer is okay, too, but the problem with the computer is it makes going back and correcting myself wayyy too easy. I get terribly caught up in editing myself as I'm freewriting then, and that just kind of spoils the whole thing, doesn't it? I tried to keep a writing notebook for freewriting and drafts, but the same self-editing problem I had with the computer was a problem there, too. Plus, I try to write pretty, which makes my notebook writing too slow.

I use the computer for all drafts, usually even copying my handwritten ones in. Then I try to remember to print out each draft so that I don't have to keep files of each revision on my computer. Also, printing them out makes it easier to make notes on each revision, cross things out, pencil in a new line or a change of word. That's important for later revisions when I want to see if I crossed out something good that I really want to bring back.

Most of my process is on the computer.

13:01 / 07.12.03

Palms are great. Seriously. I used to have millions of bits of paper and notebooks and pens around, all with scribbles and random sentences, and they'd always get lost and forgotten. With my Palm I can doodle, draw diagrams, record sound/voice and write documents - as well as categorise them and file them. And when you sync they go straight to the computer, so you can edit them there, and then you can sync them back. Plus you can do fantastic shopping lists. I carry it around with me all the time now.

I just cannot write at home so it's either the Palm or, if I'm going out specifically to do some writing somewhere, the iBook. I generally start things off on the Palm and then edit the files with OpenOffice later on. The Palm may be nifty but it's still quite slow to write on.

I love manual typewriters and have owned several, but unfortunately not having a car means I can't bring any back that I see in charity shops. I'd never use an electric typewriter, ugh.

13:09 / 07.12.03

Thinking about it, I now realise that there is a sensible, cohearant, ergonomic way to first plan, structure and then write a piece of fiction or non-fiction and then there is the way I set about writing. I continue with my bad habits out of… well, habit. I really ought to make things easierr for myself.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

15:06 / 07.12.03

Notebook and pen for the first draft, then type it up. I very rarely write anything purely on the computer these days, unless I'm in a rush. I like squared paper and mechanical pencils or gel ink pens, preferably coloured sparkly ones.

When I'm stuck I get on a train or go to a cafe. Spanish cafes are great for that, you can hang around scribbling for ages.

18:46 / 07.12.03

Usually, pen and paper for drafting and noting and being non-linear, writing in circles and the like. And then once I've got a rough plan (rougher for fiction, more detailed for essays), I sit at Word and off we go (though I'm getting more into BBEdit, and processing text, not words).

Recently, I've found I can start noting on the computer, though only if I'm very familiar with all my texts. Usually, I need page references and god knows how many paragraph outlines before I write.

I tend to write in notes; if I get stuck in longhand, I take a break and start being more concise; I don't like typing up things I've already written.

Once I've written it on the computer, whatever it is (well, if it's for handing on or proper publication of a form), I print it off, go and find somewhere away from the computer, and take a black pen to the text - a technique I refined doing a ton of student journalism. And then I cull, tear apart, rejig; I can be very brutal to my own text, and obscene to other people's, and leave the meaning and the intention, and remove all the guff and "howevers". I write very fast, and then I edit; I know many who write slowly, but produce a final version of a similar quality to mine without the rewriting. I prefer the draft/redraft process.

The Tower Always Falls

18:57 / 07.12.03

A tiny spiral notebook and a Pilot fountain pen is carried with me at all times for notes. Amusing snippets of conversation I hear, books or bands I find and want to check out, weird liscense plates or tombstones and a lot of diconnected images that I happen across like that guy with the huge neck gotier waiting for a bus. The notebook is, ideally, a Hello Kitty notebook- but I can live without it.

The actualy writing is all computer on Word. Rough drafts and final. I've gotten spoiled by the convenience of editing on the computer. I can actually free-write really well on the computer, as I can type faster than I can write. To be honest, my wrist is too iffy to write for extended periods of time. Ironically enough, typing is easier on my carpal tunnel.

As for "the process", I usually get the nugget of an idea that gestates in my head for anywhere from a week to a year. I almost always have the entire story mapped out, with dialougue and plot points before I ever write the first word. The actual writing of the story itself then takes very little time, depending on the length. As I'm writing, the map in my head does shift as I add a line or a plot point spills out of me that I didn't expect. I usually roll with the process and thread that actual "inspiration" part into the general outline I have in my head. It can be dangerous, because since I have the details mapped out to a Terry Gilliam extreme, the stories easily balloon out of control as minor characters suddenly get pages worth of backstory. I try to conceal a lot of these details and just take them out entirely when i revise.

21:02 / 07.12.03

By hand: a rollerball pen and one of those big ledger-style sketchbooks from Borders.

On the computer: using Word, ideally listening to some music.

For backup: I call myself on the answering machine and dictate.

08:20 / 08.12.03

I prefer to write on computer, usually just with an ordinary text editor, such as vim, since I really don't like Word. I also like some program that I can't remember the name of, but it has nice coloured backgrounds. If I write anything at work, I tend to email it to myself.

I often write on the bus or train, but use paper in that situation. Am buying a PDA soon, so hoping to cut down.

foot long subbacultcha

08:31 / 08.12.03

I used to have a Palm but then it randomly stopped Hotsynching and I've been furious with the things ever since.

I keep a notepad for jotting down ideas I get falling out of bed. But so many slip by because I'm too lazy. If I like an idea I dwell on it for several days until I develop an emotional attachment to it. Then I sit in front of a computer and tap away into Notepad or something else similarly simple. No formatting, no nothing.

It's been harder to do this ever sicne I started working. Three. Years. Ago.

Lilly Nowhere Late

08:57 / 08.12.03

Fridgemagnet: you must have really big hands.

I write everywhere, on anything. Tablecloths are great. so are cloth napkins.

The thing that really is key though is having an Expresso ultra fine point black pen.
They don't sell them in London so any kind amerikans may send them to me if you feel
sympathy.

09:15 / 08.12.03

Lilly, see here for how to get pens.

10:20 / 08.12.03

Pen & paper, then write it up on the computer and refine it.

Hey, I heard about a techno-pen that records what you write in longhand and saves it as a text document- so your pen types it up for you and then you can download it onto your PC!
Genius! I want a technopen!

16:20 / 08.12.03

for the novel I sit around for weeks on end then the first line of the next chapter starts in my head then when it's fully formed I hand write it, usually with some nice gel-ink Pental pen and an A4 pad.

Imagine me now, sat somewhere comfortable, the folder with the chapter notes next to the hardback A5 journal to the right of me as I write away on the pad.

Then it's off to the computer to type it up. This also acts as my major editoring of the chapter before printing it off and posting it onto the site.

It's not ideal, and I've found tonnes of typing errors when I've looked back at those chapters up already. But at least I have the power to go back and change them.

On the other hand for the journal website I just sit infront of the computer and type until I've covered what's in my head or run out of things to talk about.

We're The Great Old Ones Now

08:34 / 09.12.03

Napkins, restaurant menus, my own arm, messages on my own voicemail when I get an idea. Then flowcharts on paper (usually the recycled pages of the previous script) and massive scribblings on A4 notepads - but rarely, if ever, do I write the actual document by hand, even rough. For that I fire up the computer and start typing.

Because of the way my industry works, I often have to do a lot of in-betweeny documents; treatments, outlines, synposes, and so on. Again, I do these directly onto the computer, except when I have to structure something perfectly (well, okay, apparently perfectly). That takes a lot of faffing around with paper and a pen and sitting in my local cafe, frequently sulking and drinking too much tea.

I only know one novelist who writes everything by hand and gets the stuff typed up by someone else - and his typeuse is also a sort of real-time editor who picks up mistakes and learns the structure of his thoughts as she goes along.

wembley can change in 28 days

11:54 / 09.12.03

Creative work (first drafts of everything at least) is still a pen-and-paper affair. Somehow, I suspect the speed of my writing (which is slower than my typing) matches the speed of my thinking better. I have a stupid number of notebooks (and I buy them slightly faster than I fill them) hanging around my bookshelf - language practice, neat notey stuff, travel notes, journal... ugh.

When I know I actually need to write a draft of a play or something, I go to a cafe with a notebook and sit and write. I'm not so good at writing at home. I also seem to need to start with a blank page, and have almost no idea what I'll write about, and usually within 5 minutes of putting pen to paper, I'm on a roll. Further revisions get typed into a 'puter and worked and reworked from there.

Otherwise, I carry around a M***skine and jot down the flashes of intense brilliant superfluorescent genius in there. Then I rarely go back to them.

Our Lady of The Two Towers

12:47 / 09.12.03

I probably shouldn't talk as I've not written anything of consequence since Spring, but I've written one book with notes, one without. It seems to depend on the length and how intricate the plot is, the one I planned was set over many years, so I needed to keep track of things. The other was rougher, so I could hold it in my head.

When I started writing it was longhand, I didn't have much choice. Once I got my own PC I managed to switch to writing on that, which is how I've gone since then. Occasionally if I think of a piece of dialogue or an idea then I'll write myself a note on paper but the bulk of it is electronic.

12:55 / 09.12.03

Laptop. Can barely write my name longhand now.

13:26 / 09.12.03

What is this 'pen' that you speak of?

We're The Great Old Ones Now

14:16 / 09.12.03

A sophisticated handheld printer cartridge which possesses the virtues of independence, portability and economy, but sadly is capable of printing only one dot at time and must be moved fluidly over the paper in a pattern equivalent to the required font. Print quality is alas left to the individual. On the plus side, practice yields elegant uniqueness, and the cartridge requires no external power.

15:10 / 09.12.03

and the cartridge requires no external power

I'm not sure you're right about that part of it Nick. Surely the endless caffine and nicotine (or stronger) some writers use during the creative process can be considered as external power.

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

15:44 / 09.12.03

I write characters and VERY rough plot outlines out on notebook paper, but the actual writing is all on computer. I hate writing longhand, and do everything I can to avoid it.

And I only tend to write when up against a deadline. Which I hate about myself.

20:56 / 09.12.03

I do techy/sciencey journalism and fill out pages of mind maps at the research phase, then interview a few people, writing it down as notes. I do more mind maps (I'm glad I read that Tony Buzan book) then type it straight into computer.

Have been trying to write fiction and more creative (hate that word- hatey hate) things of late and find it’s a much more messy business of scribbling and drawing and daydreaming/doodling. It can also only be done on trains or in cafes, for some reason, as others here seem to find.

We're The Great Old Ones Now

23:05 / 09.12.03

adamswish - those things are needed by computers of all kinds. The pen is unique in being powered by the user, rather than by the user and a power station.

Disco is My Class War

02:31 / 10.12.03

I have an ongoing collection of a5 red and black notebooks that almost all my notes (plus journal entries and lists and whatever else) get written in. Pen of choice is a black Pilot V-Ball .5mm. I'm kinda finicky about this. Pretty much everything, whether fiction or non-fiction or uni essay or grant application -- gets nutted out in the notebook. If I don't have a notebook, I don't write as much, or I'll start writing on random pieces of paper that tend to lose themselves. This kind of writing tends to happen in dead time: on public transport, at cafes, in parks.

The computer is there for when it all starts coming together, when I hit a sustained flow. I type faster than I write. I smoke a lot of cigarettes, more than I notice at the time (no cigarettes = need gum or something I can mull over in my mouth, something to handle). And I talk to myself. A sort of constant mutter, sounding out the sentenecs or the thoughts to make them real. This makes sharing an office (when I have, not any more) pretty amusing for everyone else. Or annoying.

16:54 / 11.12.03

I am currently keeping a journal on a Sainsburys 'revive' recycled paper pad.

As a warm up I usually write a micro-journal of what has happened to me that day. I try to be as factual as possible including what work i have done, any people i have met or places I have been. I try to keep my thoughts and feelings to a minimum as i have found it can soon degenerate into 'i am depressed/boerd'.

I then begin writing either some fiction, dialogue or maybe a poem. Although some of my 'creative' efforts strecth to quite a few pages I haven't been sufficently inspired by any of my creations to continue with them.

We're The Great Old Ones Now

18:25 / 11.12.03

You're spreading yourself too thin. Find a story you like, and a format you can relate to - short story, novel, screenplay, narrative poem, whatever - and go for it. Otherwise you'll never finish anything. It's a stamina game.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

18:59 / 11.12.03

What Nick said, griffle. It's not easy, I know; dunno about you but I used to be leery of committing to one specific project in case it went pear-shaped and I had no backup. A good compromise is to have one big, kick-arse project that you give yourself to body and soul, and a few satellite projects that you dip into when time allows.

I keep separate notebooks for most of my projects. I've got an easily baggable notepad for my short story work (which is where it's at for me writing-wise) and that goes with me everywhere. Then there's the teeny palm sized sketchpad, the battered A4 ringbound for notes on the dreaded novel (see you in 30 or so years), the red exercise book for story ideas, and various other notelets and pads and whatall for my magickal/divinatory/insane shit. The fact that I have to swap between physical objects when I swap between projects helps me to focus on doing one goddamn thing at a time, because it brings an unconscious tendency to butterfly around into the conscious sphere.

20:41 / 11.12.03

They gave me a laptop. I take it home every day, then bring it in every morning. I plug in the network cables, turn it on, and they start bringing me files.

Always, more files.

So very, very many files.

21:11 / 11.12.03

I think a novel is what i want to complete really, in my heart of hearts. Any tips welcome for novel writing

also, what is the best site to publish my diary to. i tried diaryland but it never got read once, maybe because i didnt promote it, add links

We're The Great Old Ones Now

10:39 / 12.12.03

Okay...

You're going to live with a novel for at least six months, more likely a year. So you better be very, very drawn to the material and it better be capable of sustaining 200 pages - which means it has to be capable of sustaining four hundred so that you can whittle it down and make it tight as hell.

I tend to suggest to people that they write a detective story first. I do this because the detective format contains a structure of its own; in some way or other, you have to have a crime, an investigation, and a solution. These will usually be provided by a detective and a killer and assorted witnesses. Beyond that, the milieu is your own. It can be a thousand years before Christ or ten thousand after the destruction of the Earth. The victim can be a woman, a lotus, or a planet - anyone or anything.

I would avoid directly autobiographical stories because they are the hardest to write without bias about what is and is not interesting storytelling. The truth is that the great tragedies of most people's lives are not the stuff of great fiction or narrative unless you have a particular and startling skill in that direction, or you're going to be the next Virginia Woolf. Which is not to say that your life won't enter every word of your story, just that autobiography is a little on the nose, and it's usually best done by the old.

I'd recommend reading some of the following novels to get a sense of the possible:

The Friends of Eddie Coyle (George V. Higgins)
Fugitive Pieces (Anne Michaels)
The Count of Monte Cristo (Alexandre Dumas)
Jello Salad (Nicholas Blincoe)
Single & Single (John le Carre)
The Passion (Jeanette Winterson)

Pick your story, then either write it, or plan it and then write it. It's up to you.

Good luck.

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